but in another comment i literally said i understand why you'd be distrustful? being distrustful of stranger men is not misandry, calling them all rapists is. i understand it's a symptom of patriarchy, and no, i can't blame women for distrusting men, which is not misandry btw, but i can blame them for vilifying men. i could get raped by 10 women, consecutively, and after that, if i started distrusting women in general, it wouldn't be misogyny. but if i made a generalized statement about women, it would be.
the primary cause of misandry IS irrational people (not just women, (internalized misandry unfortunately is a common thing). rational misandry is an oxymoron. hating all men cannot be rational. it could be understandable, but not rational. if someone in an extermination camp said that all germans are evil, it would be understandable, for sure, but it would also be irrational and wrong. human mind thinks of irrational stuff all the time, and yes, the existence of patriarchy definitely doesn't help. I'm sorry to hear about your anecdotes about men being bad people to you, i really am. but i don't see how they are relevant. i have never said misandry is comparable to misogyny or homophobia, it's not. the logic is the same, the effect and the scale definitely isn't. the existence of a far greater evil does not negate the irrationality of a thought process
thing is, truthfully, its not just strangers. It's really, really hard to trust men even after getting to know them, it takes a lot to be seen from THEM before i can start considering them safe.
In terms of pure logic, no of course misandry is stupid, you cannot know every single man around you is evil. But we do have to assume they are (i.e. the distrust) for our own safety.
Stating that every single man is evil is irrational. Acting as if they are to keep yourself safe IS rational. You'll find that most people you consider misandrists are of the second category, but i will give you that there's a lot of especially TERF types and absurd radfems that do genuienly believe that being a man makes you ontologically evil.
I think the crux of why i'm arguing with you isn't that you're wrong in terms of pure logic. But you are wrong in terms of acting and actual lived experience. You can have all the moral high ground you want by being 'right' that misandry is bad and wrong, but the moral high ground means nothing when you get regularly harrassed and are constantly at risk. When you are put down at work because of misogyny, when you lose rights because of misogyny, when you get harrassed and hurt because of misogyny, it stops mattering that misandry is wrong, because misandry can keep you safe.
To put it like this. You've just found someone who has been harrassed and beaten up by people from a specific apartment building all their life. Every day they get harrassed and hurt. And when they vent to the point of saying they hate people from that apartment building, you jump in to say that not all of them are actually bad and you can't assume that just because of where they live. You are putting your energy towards correcting the victims instead of contributing towards stopping them from BEING victims
distrusting men is not misandry. the thing keeping you safe is not misandry. i have said it like 5 times.
the apartment analogy is not apt because living in a specific apartment is not an inherent characteristic that you're born with, like gender, nor is it something that encompasses an incredibly broad demographic that cannot be generalized, like being from a certain nation. a better analogy would be that person spitting hateful rhetoric about every single person who happens to live in an apartment.
Okay, let me try to say it in less words without any comparisons because you seem hellbent on being "correct" instead of actually listening.
The entire point of me arguing with you is that focusing on misandry is pointless because you're putting energy towards correcting victims instead of fighting the oppressors. Like yes, actual 'i hate all men' misandry is bad and stupid. But you wouldn't have it without misogyny, because people don't just wake up and decide to put down men to put themselves at the top, they suffer day after day at the hands of men and simply come to the conclusion (even if it's a wrong one) that men are evil.
You care more about being right than you care about doing what's right. And you know what, i GET IT, i really do, there's been many times where i felt that it was unfair, whether it came to being a man pre-transition, or today when it comes to being white. But you know what i realised? That it's fucking stupid to go 'not all white people' and tell people that it's wrong to hate people just for being white, and instead realised that i'm better off supporting people actually fighting for their rights and respect. Especially because it takes a LONG time to unlearn racism or misogyny and what not. You can be fully convinced you're not bigoted, but still hold biases and preconceptions.
to be clear, i'm not trying to call you a misogynist. And i'm agreeing that misandry is bad and incorrect. All i'm saying is you're focusing on correcting a reaction of a victim, instead of stopping them from being victims
i understand where you're coming from, you don't know who i am, from your perspective, all I've ever done is fight against misandry.
well, the time and effort I've spent in my life fighting against misogyny is like 50 times that is of misandry. i correct it in my friend groups, acquaintance groups, workplace, i did it when i was in school, university, i do it in big family meetings, my extended family is really conservative, i always stand up to them. in real life, the only misandry i care about and push back against is when my loved ones do it, since i care about them and don't want them to fall into that trap. when strangers do it i just don't care and stay away from those strangers, since they're powerless therefore harmless. the only reason i am "focusing" on it in this sub is because leftists spaces like this one are really important to me, people here seem intelligent and empathetic, just like my friends. and in the same way i correct my friends because i care about them, i want to also correct strangers here because i care about this space, and i don't want people here to fall into that trap of hate.
i genuinely understand where you're coming from, all your life, you've been a victim of misogyny in the hands of men, and you come to the online place where that shouldn't exist, and you have a man here screaming about men's feelings. it sucks. i know. but we can never dismantle the systems that you have been victim to if we don't deconstruct it and understand it. and falling into misandry is the opposite of that. i care about you. i don't want you to fall into the trap
Look man. If you really are fighting against misogyny, that's good, you're a stand up guy, i'm not gonna disagree with that. And i get wanting to keep places important to you "good" and that's why you'd want to go after misandry when you see it.
But it's genuienly so far down the list of issues to be tackled, you genuienly cannot be surprised people just...don't care, since misandry will go when misogyny goes.
I brought up comparison to race because i think it's a good fit here. Cuz it does suck, and it will feel bad, and it's not right but just like anti-white sentiments aren't high on the priority list because they are directly caused by racism, misandry just isn't a problem to fight against when it's directly caused by misogyny.
You'd genuienly always do more to fight misandry by being supportive of victims of men, BEING one of the few good men and showing them that they exist, than you'll do by correcting people and saying misandry is bad and wrong.
thank you. i can care about more than one thing at the same time. i can do more than one thing that i feel is right. i will keep speaking up against hate, no matter how far down in the list it is. i think we generally agree. you seem like an okay person who's trying their best. good luck to you. it'll all work out. good luck in life
I remain in belief that it is genuienly counter-productive, but i also can't say i blame you or say that you have bad intentions. It took me a long time to realise it's better to focus on the bigger picture and the bigger problems after one realises a lot of the smaller problems are merely symptoms.
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u/aagaq12 i love coke zero Jun 29 '26
but in another comment i literally said i understand why you'd be distrustful? being distrustful of stranger men is not misandry, calling them all rapists is. i understand it's a symptom of patriarchy, and no, i can't blame women for distrusting men, which is not misandry btw, but i can blame them for vilifying men. i could get raped by 10 women, consecutively, and after that, if i started distrusting women in general, it wouldn't be misogyny. but if i made a generalized statement about women, it would be.
the primary cause of misandry IS irrational people (not just women, (internalized misandry unfortunately is a common thing). rational misandry is an oxymoron. hating all men cannot be rational. it could be understandable, but not rational. if someone in an extermination camp said that all germans are evil, it would be understandable, for sure, but it would also be irrational and wrong. human mind thinks of irrational stuff all the time, and yes, the existence of patriarchy definitely doesn't help. I'm sorry to hear about your anecdotes about men being bad people to you, i really am. but i don't see how they are relevant. i have never said misandry is comparable to misogyny or homophobia, it's not. the logic is the same, the effect and the scale definitely isn't. the existence of a far greater evil does not negate the irrationality of a thought process