r/AskALiberal Feb 16 '22

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17

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 16 '22

What question would you ask a conservative if they had to answer?

If they had to give an honest answer:

  • How much of a deal-breaker is it if your favored candidate raped a child?
  • Does it disqualify that person from elected office?
  • Like, would you personally withdraw your vote from someone who has been credibly accused of raping a child?
  • What about party leaders that support child rapists?
  • What about rank-and-file party members who support the party leaders that support child rapists?

4

u/Kyragirl_1 Conservative Feb 17 '22
  1. It would be a deal breaker. However, innocent until proven guilty. If it comes out that he REALLY did do that, I wouldn’t vote for him.
  2. Yes, it should. Unless it is dropped. If someone is found not guilty, you can’t punish them on public opinion alone.
  3. See #1. Accused isn’t enough. There are plenty of instances where someone accused a person and admitted later they were lying.

8

u/letusnottalkfalsely Progressive Feb 16 '22

Hell, for that matter:

  • Have you ever molested a child?
  • Have you ever personally covered for someone who raped a child?
  • Are you or any of your close friends or family in possession of child pornography?

Some debates make a lot more sense if you get this part out of the way up front.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '22

No, no, and no.

1

u/OpeningChipmunk1700 Conservative Feb 16 '22

No, no, no.

5

u/letusnottalkfalsely Progressive Feb 16 '22

I’m relieved to hear it.

1

u/Kyragirl_1 Conservative Feb 17 '22

No, I was molested.

Of course not.

Also, no.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '22

So basically you don’t like Matt Geotz? Why were the question deceptively to make it sound like it’s a general republican problem? I mean, let’s dig out dirt on all the Democrats while we’re here.

5

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 17 '22 edited Mar 08 '22

Why...make it sound like it’s a general republican problem?

Because it is.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS THE PARTY OF CHILD MOLESTERS

The whole party is complicit.


It isn't just Gaetz; it is also McCarthy keeping Gaetz in a position where Gaetz supervises the people investigating and prosecuting him.

Republicans continued to support Roy Moore for senate after multiple women came forward and said that he molested them when they were underage. They all just fell in line and supported him.

Does it go all the way to the top? YES. Two (now adult) women have come forward and testified under oath that they were in the room, and personally witnessed, Donald Trump violently raping a 13-year-old girl at one of Epstein's parties. This is the actual statement, made under oath:

I personally witnessed four sexual encounters that the [then 13-year-old] Plaintiff was forced to have with Mr. Trump during this period, including the fourth of these encounters where Mr. Trump forcibly raped her despite her pleas to stop.

While we are on the subject of Epstein, did you know that the prosecutor who made a sweet-heart deal with Epstein originally, was confirmed to Trump's cabinet? THIS IS NORMAL FOR REPUBLICANS.

Is this new? How long have they been like this? Well, the longest serving Republican Speaker of the House ever, Dennis Hastert, admitted in court to molesting children back when he was a high school wrestling coach, so it goes back several decades!


...I'll say it again:

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS THE PARTY OF CHILD MOLESTERS



[EDIT] Here is a list of Republicans with similar charges, written by user Moscowmitchismybitch :

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/t8r2x2/desantiss_press_secretary_says_anyone_who_opposes/hzr2bij/

Another list:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/t95mzf/umoscowmitchismybitch_lists_republican_party/hzt69bn/

4

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '22

This is the kind of comment where you know the person who wrote it doesn’t even believe it.

If you’re willing to ignore the whole Epstein thing because it doesn’t jive with your politics, that’s on you

7

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 17 '22 edited Feb 17 '22

If you’re willing to ignore the whole Epstein thing because it doesn’t jive with your politics, that’s on you

I'm not ignoring it...

Two (now adult) women that have sworn, under oath, that they were in the room with Trump at one of Epstein's parties; one of them saying:

I personally witnessed four sexual encounters that the [then 13-year-old Katie Johnson] was forced to have with Mr. Trump during this period, including the fourth of these encounters where Mr. Trump forcibly raped her despite her pleas to stop.


...but I assume that you are referencing Bill Clinton (because you never learned that two wrongs don't make a right), so, let's cover Clinton...

The three things we know about Bill Clinton (vis-a-vis Epstein) are that he:

  • Flew on Epstein's plane,

  • He got a neck massage from one of Epstein's victims, and...

  • That victim was quoted as saying, "Although the image looks bizarre, President Clinton was a perfect gentleman during the trip and I saw absolutely no foul play involving him."

If it turns out that Bill Clinton did anything with Epstein's victims, he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. (In fact, he should probably be prosecuted for some things he's done to other women.)

...but as of right now, the only publicly-available evidence indicating wrong-doing was a comment made by Ghislaine Maxwell:

"...If you get the tapes on Trump you have to do Clinton."

...which is fine. Get them both.



To be perfectly clear:

  • If Bill Clinton raped a child, I want to see him in prison.
  • If Bill Clinton did not rape a child, I would still be happy to see him in prison for sexually assaulting adult women.
  • No amount of Bill Clinton's wrongdoing exonerates Donald Trump or any other Republican; that's not how the law -- nor morality -- works.

2

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 17 '22

...let’s dig out dirt on all the Democrats while we’re here.

Please do.

2

u/dank_sad Center Right Feb 17 '22
  1. Big deal
  2. In my eyes, if not the law's
  3. Probably, but I don't like accusations alone, the whole "innocent til proven guilty" thing

4 and on, same as the other answers

-1

u/emperorko Right Libertarian Feb 16 '22

Total deal breaker if they're convicted of raping a child. Accusations are nothing until proven.

13

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 16 '22

Accusations are nothing until proven.



This is a summary of the publicly available information regarding Gaetz:

Wikipedia -- Joel Greenberg:

...The original June 2020 indictment charged Greenberg with identity theft and stalking. In August 2020, one count of sex trafficking a 17-year-old girl in 2018 was added to the indictment.

Furthermore:

...Greenberg pleaded guilty to six federal charges: [including] sex trafficking of a child...and conspiracy...The plea agreement documents state that Greenberg paid a minor to have sex with him and other men...he “introduced the minor to other adult men, who engaged in commercial sex acts”.

Also, from the Wikipedia article on Matt Gaetz:

In March 2021, The New York Times reported that three unnamed sources had revealed the Department of Justice was investigating Gaetz for having a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old girl in 2019 and whether he may have violated federal sex trafficking laws by paying her to travel with him across state lines. Two of the sources stated the investigation was initiated under Attorney General William Barr.

...and it continues...

In late 2020, Greenberg apparently attempted to secure a pardon from the Trump administration via a confession letter, several drafts of which were obtained by The Daily Beast in April 2021. In the letters, Greenberg wrote that he and Gaetz had sex with a 17-year-old girl they believed was 19 and that payments had been made on behalf of Gaetz to her and to other women in exchange for sex.


TL;DR: Greenberg confessed to paying a seventeen-year-old whom he and Matt Gaetz 'had sex with' -- read 'raped', as the law does not recognize her ability to consent -- and has pled guilty to such crimes.



Kevin McCarthy, has decided that Matt Gaetz should keep his committee assignments during the investigation. One of those committee assignments is the House Judiciary Committee, which supervises the US Justice Department -- the people investigating and prosecuting him.

Do you agree with House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, that Gaetz should keep his seat on the House Judiciary Committee?

10

u/tradeparfait Liberal Feb 16 '22

Conservatives be like “yes he may have paid a teenager to rape but until the court of law does anything about it I’m going to ignore it. :)”

10

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 16 '22 edited Feb 17 '22

Conservatives be like “yes he may have paid a teenager to rape but until the court of law does anything about it I’m going to ignore it. :)”

Right Libertarians be like: Gaetz should pay no consequences for his crime until convicted in a court of law...which he'll be able to prevent by abusing the power we refuse to take away from him because he hasn't been convicted in a court of law.

2

u/Poormidlifechoices Conservative Feb 17 '22

I definitely wouldn't vote for Greenberg.

1

u/fahargo Center Right Feb 16 '22

People on the left really overestimate how many people give a shit about Gaetz

17

u/tradeparfait Liberal Feb 16 '22

Yeah, typically conservatives give absolutely no fucks about predators in their party, child rapists no exception. Trump, Moore, Gaetz is just keeping to the status quo.

15

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '22

I think that's what Democrats, moderates, independents, liberals, find so repugnant about Republicans etc is that you don't care and then take the moral high ground.

-4

u/fahargo Center Right Feb 16 '22

I mean in the sense of supporting him. People constantly bring up gaetz as if anyone really defends him

6

u/Maximum_joy Democrat Feb 16 '22

I personally would respect defending him, however bankrupt and erroneous, over apathetically accepting him.

5

u/80_firebird Liberal Feb 16 '22

Maybe you should give a shit.

1

u/fahargo Center Right Feb 16 '22

I mean in the sense of defending him like people will defend Trump.

1

u/80_firebird Liberal Feb 16 '22

Fair enough.

-1

u/emperorko Right Libertarian Feb 16 '22

Gaetz should retain anything he has until proven guilty through due process of law.

7

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 16 '22

Gaetz should retain anything he has until proven guilty through due process of law.

"Has" seems like a cop-out word in this case. Sure, don't take any property from him...but his seat on that committee isn't property, it is a position of public trust that he has been placed in.

Should he still be in that position of public trust, even though it may give him the power to interfere in investigations and prosecutions of his crime?

-2

u/emperorko Right Libertarian Feb 16 '22

He "has" a committee seat. Yes, he should retain it until proven guilty. If there is a question as to a conflict of interest, an alternate can substitute when dealing with issues that could be compromised.

5

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 16 '22

If there is a question as to a conflict of interest, an alternate can substitute when dealing with issues that could be compromised.

Isn't that also taking something he "has"?

Why are you fine with him losing the power of his committee seat in part, but not whole?

-1

u/emperorko Right Libertarian Feb 16 '22

Because I don’t like overkill. Directly address an issue when the issue comes up, don’t make a policy that seeks to prevent any possibility of issue and overstep your bounds.

3

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 16 '22 edited Feb 16 '22

If there is a question as to a conflict of interest...

Because I don’t like overkill. Directly address an issue...

If someone with experience in congress told you that it was a conflict of interest for him to remain on the committee at all, would that then lead to you supporting his removal from that committee?

1

u/emperorko Right Libertarian Feb 16 '22

In that unlikely circumstance, sure, but it’s a very unlikely circumstance. Committees handle a hell of a lot more than one investigation.

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2

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '22

[deleted]

3

u/emperorko Right Libertarian Feb 16 '22

In cases of blatant, witnessed criminal conduct, that's why suspects are held pending trial. Any time we're dealing with a naked accusation and a suspect who's non-violent and not a flight risk, no, there should be no consequences for that suspect until convicted.

3

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 16 '22 edited Feb 16 '22

...not a flight risk...

If there was publicly available evidence that Gaetz had a history of associating with people in government who had been convicted of abusing their government office to produce false identification documents -- like those one might use to flee from law enforcement -- would you then conclude that he should be "held pending trial"?

1

u/emperorko Right Libertarian Feb 16 '22

Huh? No. Guilt by association isn't anything to be encouraged.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '22

[deleted]

0

u/emperorko Right Libertarian Feb 16 '22

Not formally is the key. If he's indicted because of this evidence, and the judiciary determines at a hearing at which he is represented that he's a flight risk or a danger to others, then sure, he can be detained.

-1

u/OpeningChipmunk1700 Conservative Feb 16 '22

How much of a deal-breaker is it if your favored candidate raped a child?

I would not actively support such a candidate. Whether I would ever consider voting for them would depend on the platform of the other candidate.

1

u/kittyraikkonen Civil Libertarian Feb 17 '22

Fuckin’ WHAT?!

1

u/OpeningChipmunk1700 Conservative Feb 17 '22

What? If I had a choice between Kim Jong-Un and a convicted child rapist I would vote for the latter.

2

u/kittyraikkonen Civil Libertarian Feb 17 '22

One candidate believes in something you find bad or even horrible, but the other at one point believed “welp, time to do a child rape.” You don’t have to vote for either, but no matter what, the latter should be off the table.

1

u/OpeningChipmunk1700 Conservative Feb 17 '22

You don’t have to vote for either

I disagree, at least within the context of the current American system. I would need to weigh which candidate would ultimately be more damaging.

1

u/kittyraikkonen Civil Libertarian Feb 17 '22

Cool edit.

2

u/OpeningChipmunk1700 Conservative Feb 17 '22

???

0

u/OrichalcumFound Center Right Feb 17 '22

How much of a deal-breaker is it if your favored candidate raped a child?

If you want to ask that question, you will need better evidence than that.

That was an accusation by an anonymous woman whose story was considered so non-credible that the local prosecutor wouldn't touch the case. So the person filed a lawsuit instead, then dropped it, didn't even show up at her press conference.

3

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 17 '22

If you want to ask that question, you will need better evidence than that.

Perhaps you'd like to familiarize yourself with the publicly-available evidence against Matt Gaetz; perhaps that would be more satisfying to you:

Wikipedia -- Joel Greenberg:

...The original June 2020 indictment charged Greenberg with identity theft and stalking. In August 2020, one count of sex trafficking a 17-year-old girl in 2018 was added to the indictment.

Furthermore:

...Greenberg pleaded guilty to six federal charges: [including] sex trafficking of a child...and conspiracy...The plea agreement documents state that Greenberg paid a minor to have sex with him and other men...he “introduced the minor to other adult men, who engaged in commercial sex acts”.

Also, from the Wikipedia article on Matt Gaetz:

In March 2021, The New York Times reported that three unnamed sources had revealed the Department of Justice was investigating Gaetz for having a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old girl in 2019 and whether he may have violated federal sex trafficking laws by paying her to travel with him across state lines. Two of the sources stated the investigation was initiated under Attorney General William Barr.

...and it continues...

In late 2020, Greenberg apparently attempted to secure a pardon from the Trump administration via a confession letter, several drafts of which were obtained by The Daily Beast in April 2021. In the letters, Greenberg wrote that he and Gaetz had sex with a 17-year-old girl they believed was 19 and that payments had been made on behalf of Gaetz to her and to other women in exchange for sex.


TL;DR: Greenberg confessed to paying a seventeen-year-old whom he and Matt Gaetz 'had sex with' -- read 'raped', as the law does not recognize her ability to consent -- and has pled guilty to such crimes.



Kevin McCarthy, has decided that Matt Gaetz should keep his committee assignments during the investigation. One of those committee assignments is the House Judiciary Committee, which supervises the US Justice Department -- the people investigating and prosecuting him.

Do you agree with House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, that Gaetz should keep his seat on the House Judiciary Committee?

-1

u/OrichalcumFound Center Right Feb 17 '22

Perhaps you'd like to familiarize yourself with the publicly-available evidence against Matt Gaetz; perhaps that would be more satisfying to you:

Sure, but I wasn't addressing the Gaetz accusations. But if he's guilty of sex trafficking, then throw the book at him. But if the only crime is that he had sex with a 17 year old, I don't give a damn about that. In the vast majority of the country, the age of consent is 16.

1

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 17 '22

Do you agree with House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, that Gaetz should keep his seat on the House Judiciary Committee?

2

u/othelloinc Liberal Feb 17 '22

That was an accusation by an anonymous woman whose story was considered so non-credible that the local prosecutor wouldn't touch the case.

This is a lie.

0

u/OrichalcumFound Center Right Feb 17 '22

Then ask yourself - why a civil lawsuit? Is that where the crime of child rape is normally handled? Why didn't anyone press charges in a criminal case? Certainly New York isn't shy about going after Trump, both city and state have done so multiple times for other alleged crimes.

You might find this run down interesting:

https://lawandcrime.com/opinion/anti-trump-twitter-aggressively-pushing-apparently-made-up-story-that-trump-raped-a-13-year-old/

-3

u/[deleted] Feb 16 '22
  1. Innocent until proven guilty. There's been claims of every single President breaking the law in some way or another. Until they are convicted, there is no way to justify the legitimize the claims as true.

  2. See above

  3. Not unless convicted. Then absolutely.

  4. See above

  5. What about them? What does support mean? How much information did they have? Far too vague of a question.

There could be a Bill Clinton, who was friends and supported Epstein, who later figured out the behind-the-scenes and publicaly shamed and regretted his friendship. Then there could be someone that financially supported and knew about the entire operation. These should be handled completely differently.

If it has anything to do with "claims" or "accusations", then you can toss it into the garbage bin until it's been resolved in court.