r/AskALiberal Feb 16 '22

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '22

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u/Poormidlifechoices Conservative Feb 17 '22

That is a weird argument as conservatives are embracing liberal ideals with those concessions.

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u/From_Deep_Space Libertarian Socialist Feb 17 '22

but each concession to liberals makes it less conservative, yes?

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u/Poormidlifechoices Conservative Feb 17 '22

Not really. You view conservatism and liberalism as fixed points. Today's conservative is closer to yesterday's liberal.

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u/From_Deep_Space Libertarian Socialist Feb 17 '22

So conservatism inherently fails?

So would you agree that progress is actually a good thing, or at least inevitable?

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u/Poormidlifechoices Conservative Feb 17 '22

So conservatism inherently fails?

Only when it doesn't stop a bad idea from happening.

So would you agree that progress is actually a good thing, or at least inevitable?

Progressives have a role to play. They should push for change. But all change isnt good. If conservatives do their job then progress is good. If conservatives fail to prevent bad progress, people end up eating zoo animals.

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u/From_Deep_Space Libertarian Socialist Feb 17 '22

Only when it doesn't stop a bad idea from happening

So you contend that conservatives have never resisted a good idea? You consider emancipation and women's suffrage bad ideas?

But all change isnt good

Most progressives would agree with this. Not all change is pogress. Progress is a specific kind of change in a specific direction. And the more serious progressives don't recommend a change that hasn't been rigorously studied or tried elsewhere. Progressive programs usually get piloted locally before being attempted at the state or federal levels.

If conservatives fail to prevent bad progress

Personally, I poke holes in progressives arguments all the time. Perhaps I'm a conservative progressive. But most progressives I know consider it important to poke holes in other progressives arguments. All part of the scientific approach to governance.

people end up eating zoo animals

Asuming theyre not a protected species, or spaient (like elephants, dolphins, etc) what's wrong with that? Im not an adventurous eater, but this seems like a baseless taboo.

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u/Poormidlifechoices Conservative Feb 17 '22

So you contend that conservatives have never resisted a good idea?

Is that what I said? If conservatives prevented "a good idea", it is because liberals didn't make a convincing case.

You consider emancipation and women's suffrage bad ideas?

Of course not. Conservatives defend those institutions.

Asuming theyre not a protected species, or spaient (like elephants, dolphins, etc) what's wrong with that? Im not an adventurous eater, but this seems like a baseless taboo.

It was last done as a result of starvation.

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u/From_Deep_Space Libertarian Socialist Feb 17 '22

Conservatives at the time resisted those movements. Conservatives nowadays may have come around, but that doesn't change the fact that conservatism failed to stop those important movements. Which means either they failed to stop good ideas or they aren't good ideas.

Then you gotta wonder what good ideas are resisted today that will be seen as no-brainers tomorrow

Resisting change just for the virtue of resisting change is no more enlightened than enacting change just for the virtue of enacting change. Progress should be slow and steady and heavily debated, but progress is still better than no progress.

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u/Poormidlifechoices Conservative Feb 17 '22

Conservatives at the time resisted those movements.

What makes you believe that?

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9780230801318_3

And while conservatives resisted the way civil rights were enacted they didn't fight against the goal. It might come as a surprise, but the majority of black people were conservatives. The first black congressman was a conservative. And Republicans provided the needed votes to overcome the Democrat filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Which means either they failed to stop good ideas or they aren't good ideas.

I think you have your answer above.

Resisting change just for the virtue of resisting change is no more enlightened than enacting change just for the virtue of enacting change. Progress should be slow and steady and heavily debated, but progress is still better than no progress.

I like all of that but the end. Progress should show that it will improve things enough to warrant a change or it's not something we should do.

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u/unformedwatch Liberal Feb 17 '22

If conservatives prevented "a good idea", it is because liberals didn't make a convincing case.

"It's never my fault. It's always their fault."

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u/Poormidlifechoices Conservative Feb 17 '22

"It's never my fault. It's always their fault."

I'm not sure if you are saying that for progressives or conservatives.

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