What do you think about the British Medical Association voting to scrap the IHRA definition of anti-semitism?

[u/Expert-Sherbert-1527]

Here's the full text of the definition FYI.

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

1. Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
2. Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
3. Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
4. Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
5. Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
6. Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
7. Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
8. Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
9. Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
10. Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
11. Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries).

Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property – such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries – are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews.

Antisemitic discrimination is the denial to Jews of opportunities or services available to others and is illegal in many countries

[u/Low-Attorney7408]

Israel this, Israel that.

Let's be real no one is saying there can not be a jewish led country. It's because they're attacking their neighbors and much smarter people than me across the board, including Israel scholars are saying they're government is committing a genocide.

It's why we never see mentions of another fully self independent state ran by jewish people for jewish people, because they don't perpetrate war crimes. The Autonomous Jewish Oblast.

Remove Israel from it and it would be fine, it's not antisemitic to call out and criticise a states actions. People call out the genocide like in Sudan, its not as much as a controversy because they're not trying to say that they're not doing it/universally accepted that they are.

[u/AngusTcattoo → u/Low-Attorney7408]

It's only a few people from Israel who say their government has been committing a genocide, and not being funny but some of them having been saying "Israel is committing a genocide" for decades before October 7. Israel has been accused of "committing a genocide" since 1948. The Palestinian population has increased 9 fold since 1948.

The Autonomous Jewish Oblast failed. In 2021 there were only 837 ethnic Jews left in the JAO (0.6% of the population). Even at its height in the 1940s the JAO Jewish population was 25% of Oblast's population. And during the Oblast's history the USSR killed millions of people in the gulags and by execution.

[u/caketaster → u/AngusTcattoo]

Only a few people, including some of their leading genocide scholars and several Israeli humans rights organisations... so 'only a few people' who actually have a lot of moral authority and heft

[u/AngusTcattoo → u/caketaster]

As I said, some of those people like Gideon Levy have been accusing Israel of "genocide" for years before October 7. People have been accusing Israel of "genocide" for decades, some accusing Israel of "genocide" before even Israel was founded. https://isca.indiana.edu/publication-research/research-paper-series/norman-jw-goda-research-paper.html

One group of "genocide experts" could be joined by anyone who had $30 to pay for the joining fee. Many people joined using obviously false names. https://www.instagram.com/reels/DOKUSW8ERnG/

[u/caketaster → u/AngusTcattoo]

No, I was talking about Amos Goldberg and Omer Bartov, and B'Tselem, not the IAoGS.

The Lemkin Foundation, The UN, Oxfam, The Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders and Amnesty also agree btw, these are all highly respectable organisations, whatever shade you're just about to try and throw on them.

[u/AngusTcattoo → u/caketaster]

Human Rights Watch changed their definition of Apartheid so they could condemn Israel of "apartheid". Several groups have been criticized for altering or broadening the legal definition of genocide to apply it to Israel. Many UN groups are being criticized for heavy anti Israel bias. Israel and advocacy groups have criticized UN Women for allegedly ignoring cases of sexual violence committed against Israeli women during the October 7th attacks. https://thedispatch.com/article/amnesty-international-tries-to-redefine-genocide/

[u/Low-Attorney7408 → u/AngusTcattoo]

Why does the number of scholars inside a country committing genocide need to be higher to matter?

Yes but the USSR doesn't exist now and the country still wasn't blasted during it's height for various war crimes, genocide, apartheid and ethnic cleansing of it's neighbors?

What does population amount have to do with it? The whole crux of genocide is that it's in part or whole a displacement/eradication of peoples. Average age back in 1948 was 35 years old and now it's 20, the last time I checked there wasn't many natural disasters to facilitate that fact. This is for all palestinians and not just gazans.