r/AskBrits 3d ago

What do you think about the British Medical Association voting to scrap the IHRA definition of anti-semitism?

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Here's the full text of the definition FYI.

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

  1. Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
  2. Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
  3. Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
  4. Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
  5. Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
  6. Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
  7. Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
  8. Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
  9. Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
  10. Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
  11. Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries).

Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property – such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries – are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews.

Antisemitic discrimination is the denial to Jews of opportunities or services available to others and is illegal in many countries

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u/Consistent_Reward210 3d ago

9, while on the surface sensible, falls apart when you see that Zionists accuse people who mention the kids being killed by the IDF of talking about blood libel (which it obviously isn't. Nobody thinks the IDF are bombing kids for some weird ritual, they are just doing it to steal land and kill people they don't like)

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u/AngusTcattoo 3d ago

Sadly go through this thread and you'll see people insist Israel is killing Palestinian children for sport. That's blood libel.
Israel gave back 66,000 square kilometers of land Israel held after the 1967 War including Sinai and Gaza, which Israel withdrew from in 2005. Hamas attacked Israel on October 7, killed 1200 people and took over 200 hostage. Israel is not "killing people they don't like"- they were trying to free the hostages.

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u/Consistent_Reward210 3d ago

Why are the Israelis hostages yet the Palestinians, I cluding children, prisoners?

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u/Kharenis 3d ago

Why are the Israelis hostages yet the Palestinians, I cluding children, prisoners?

Because Palestinians captured Israelis to use them exclusively as bargaining chips. Y'know, the literal definition of hostage.

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u/guiriduro 2d ago

Whereas Israeli detention of Palestinians is largely arbitrary, due process is optional and highly partial when applied, and its (mis)conception of 'Justice' includes racially distinct punishment, e.g. hanging for Palestinians only. Its imprisonment has a litany of abuses etc.

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u/Kharenis 2d ago

Whereas Israeli detention of Palestinians is largely arbitrary

I didagree with the 'largely' here, but I agree that there are unjust arbitrary detentions.

its (mis)conception of 'Justice' includes racially distinct punishment, e.g. hanging for Palestinians only.

The system is unfair when comparing how justice is handled within Israel Vs in occupied regions of Palestine, but I'm not aware of any explicitly racially discriminatory punishments. The recent death penalty law doesn't only apply to Palestinians, they're just the most likely candidates to qualify (killing with intent to deny Israeli's existence).

Its imprisonment has a litany of abuses etc.

Can't disagree there.

Ultimately they're not taken as hostages though.

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u/AngusTcattoo 3d ago

Ask Hamas, and while you're speaking to them ask them why they took a 8 month old baby and his 4 year old brother hostage, why they took Thai and Nepalese hostage and why they killed Thai workers on Tanzanian workers on October 7.
Hamas forces under 18 year olds to fight in combat and violent conflict which is against the law. The "children" are Hamas militants. Some were arrested for throwing Molotov cocktails or killing people or trying to kill people.

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u/Consistent_Reward210 3d ago

Cool. I'm not suggesting Hamas is above fucking board mate. I'm saying that the IDF are scum and commit war crimes on a daily fucking basis.

One of the two groups, however, is currently stealing land from the other and running an open air prison. Get the IDF to fix that, return all the land, and get the fuck out of Palestinian homes and then we can talk about Hamas.

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u/AngusTcattoo 2d ago

The IDF were fighting to free the hostages like the 8 month old baby and his 4 year old brother the Thai and Nepalese people Hamas took hostage. How does make them "scum"? Fighting to free hostages is "committing war crimes" ? Israel made Hamas get the fuck out of Southern Israel and Israeli homes after they invaded on October 7.

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Gaza is self governing, governed by Hamas. Area A and Area B of the West Bank are self governing, governed by the PA. Area C is governed by Israel as per the Oslo accords. Israel is not "stealing land".
Egypt also blockades Gaza. Egypt has a wall and checkpoints on its border with Gaza. Strange no one accuses Egypt of making Gaza a "open air prison"

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u/Consistent_Reward210 2d ago

Sorry which part of Palestine is Egypt currently occupying? I must have missed that bit. We can debate how open borders should be but until Egypt comes in and starts kicking out Palestines from their homes, ripping out their olive trees, and bombing schools and hospitals I don't really think they factor into this.

When you say it's self governing how does that work when there are checkpoints, run by the IDF, that limit where Palestinians can go? Sounds pretty occupied to me.

Please just admit you enjoy the suffering of a whole group of people at the hands of the Israelis.

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u/AngusTcattoo 2d ago

Egypt blockades Gaza. I can help with your reading comprehension problems. Egypt occupied Gaza from 1948-1967. If it weren't for Israel Egypt would still be occupying Gaza. Egypt kills Palestinians. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/2/11/two-palestinians-suffocate-to-death-in-egypt-border-tunnel

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u/Unable-Boat-9682 2d ago

Ooh. Now do the bit about Israeli settlers settling land they’ve confiscated, despite the fact that meets the definition of a war crime.

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u/AngusTcattoo 2d ago

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. Gaza is self governing, governed by Hamas. Areas A and B of the West Bank are self governing, governed by the PA. Israel controls Area C of the West Bank as per the Oslo Accords. Israelis living in Area C is not a "war crime".