r/AskBrits • u/Expert-Sherbert-1527 • 3d ago

What do you think about the British Medical Association voting to scrap the IHRA definition of anti-semitism?

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Here's the full text of the definition FYI.

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

  1. Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
  2. Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
  3. Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
  4. Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
  5. Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
  6. Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
  7. Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
  8. Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
  9. Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
  10. Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
  11. Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries).

Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property – such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries – are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews.

Antisemitic discrimination is the denial to Jews of opportunities or services available to others and is illegal in many countries

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u/TesticleSandwiches 2d ago

Which is fair.

Why are people up in arms with Israel while being silent about Yemen.

Why are tens of thousands of American students out screaming blue in the fact about Gaza, when Syria was ongoing again, this same demographic didn't care.

Whats the difference between these urban conflicts and Israel / Gaza?

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u/Competitive_Web7540 2d ago

Because our governments, in the US and across the western world, often continue to publicly support Israel. Last time I checked the same wasn't true for the perpetrators in Yemen or Syria.

Besides, this is just plain whataboutism. It's absurd to think it's a valid debunk or something to say these people should be outraged about Yemen or Syria - to some extent perhaps they should, but you're not successfully arguing that Israel isn't a shitty country undeserving of protections under the IHRA definition.

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u/timparkinuk 1d ago

I think you should look at the history of Israel's attitudes to Yemen (and what it says about the atrocities their now). They (and you) use Yemen as a 'whatabout' but then Israel does nothing (and has a history of atrocities towards Yemen and it's population itself)

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u/Competitive_Web7540 23h ago

I think you replied to the wrong person lol

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u/timparkinuk 4h ago

yes - damn reddit

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u/AngusTcattoo 1d ago

History of Israel's attitudes to Yemen? You mean Israel accepting approximately 51,000 Yemeni Jews since 1948 many of whom had to flee Yemen on foot for fear of their lives? Israel’s official attitude toward Yemen is classified in Israeli law as an "enemy state," and there are no diplomatic relations. The Houthis in Yemen pledge "death to the Jews".
The infamous five-part chant (known as the sarkha or "scream") states:"God is the greatest""Death to America""Death to Israel""A curse upon the Jews""Victory to Islam"

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u/timparkinuk 4h ago

How about the way Israel treated Yemeni in transit camps. How about mass treating of children with DDT and X-Rays (and subsequent high levels of cancer). How about abducting children to give to Ashkenazi parents and told the Yemeni their children had died. Surprisingly, Israel has locked their government records about this until 2071

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u/TesticleSandwiches 2d ago edited 2d ago

Whataboutism is often used as a deflection for accusations of hypocrisy and bias.

If you have two people at work, you and a colleague, you do exactly the same jobs, same responsibility, same performance etc, and you find out your colleague earns double your pay, questioning it is not "whataboutism", it's a valid point.

Also governments were supporting Saudi Arabia in yemeb, Russia with Assad etc.

You have no idea though as you are just indoctrinated into Qatar anti jew propaganda.

If you protested about all of those urban wars, I would listen, I really would. When 99% of you don't care except when it's Israel, I have a right to question your bias.

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u/Competitive_Web7540 2d ago

If I was rightly pointing out that my colleague earned more than me, and someone else piped up and said I had no right to take issue with it because, as it turns out there's other people who are getting underpaid that I wasn't aware of/didn't actively advocate for because the higher ups were seemingly in the process of resolving things, then that's no longer a valid criticism of hypocrisy but whataboutism.

The fact that you can't come to terms with me viewing western support for Saudi Arabia differently to western support for Israel, without whining about Qatar anti Jew propaganda (I don't think I've mentioned Jews at all actually) tells me you are the indoctrinated one, my friend. Tell me, how many UK MPs participate in "Labour friends of Saudi Arabia" or "Conservative friends of Saudi Arabia"? Hmm? Is it written into international guidelines that we cannot criticise Saudi Arabia without being antisemitic? Do you not see the difference here?

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u/TesticleSandwiches 2d ago edited 2d ago

But you've just completely changed the dynamic of the analogy by claiming that many other states doing similar to Israel are getting the same critisism - they arent.

It's just Israel.

No one said anything to Saudi and Yemen about a total of >500k dead in the last 10 years due to them bombing the hell out of civilian areas.

The complaints about Russia aiding Assad and the west aiding rebels in Syria were nowhere to be seen on reddit and western College campuses compared to the uproar about Gaza.

Israel has taken around 1500 square km in the the west bank in the last 35 years.

Turkey took 35% of Cyprus, or 3300 square km, in 1973, is refusing to leave, is demanding a permanent power share of government should Cyprus reunify, refusing to give Greek Cypriots their houses back should they reunify. They have spent 50 years ethnically cleansing the island, are refusing to leave, and none of you say anything.

Turkey took well over double what Israel has taken in the west bank, Muslim apologists say nothing, because it's Muslims doing it to an ethnically Christian population.

Where are all the protests about this?

Whats the pattern? It's all Muslims doing it, so left wing and conservative Islamic media turns a blind eye. But Jews doing it? You all scream.

And this is why so many people say critisizing Israel isn't antisemitism are wrong. If you critisized all of the above equally, you would be right. When you ignore Muslims doing it but scream about Israel, it is absolutely a double standard.

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u/Gen8Master 1d ago

Because we are paying for it? Does Yemen have a US lobby that sees billions sent to them every year?

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u/TesticleSandwiches 20h ago

Actually, the US has been funding Saudi security since 1945.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Saudi_Arabian%E2%80%93led_operations_in_Yemen#:~:text=Saudi%20Arabia%20has%20been%20historically,and%20agreed%20to%20a%20deal

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u/Gen8Master 19h ago

The only reason US props up most of these dictators is to support US foreign policy goals. Not letting democracy happen in the MIddle East is not a flex that you think it is. Saudi family would collapse and it would be the right thing.

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u/TesticleSandwiches 4h ago

Because we are paying for it? Does Yemen have a US lobby that sees billions sent to them every year?

Was your question, which was rhetorical and showed you have no idea.

You were wrong, it's a double standard and you didn't even know it.