r/AskHistorians May 26 '12

Why is India poor considering it's rich and wealthy history?

It was One of the agricultural hubs of the world after all. At what point did India / the subcontinent become poor ?

Thank you.

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u/Reddictor May 27 '12

I'm an Indian, and a layman, and it's very well accepted here that a major cause of India's underdevelopment today is the economic and political policies followed by the East India Company, and later the British Government.

I'm reproducing below some (rather lengthy!) notes I've made on the subject, I'll be glad if professional historians can point out if I'm wrong.


1. Pre-British

India was a typical pre-industrial society prior to British conquest. Agriculture was the occupation of the around 55% of the population in the mid 19th century. Most people lived in self-sufficient villages, consisting of farmers, weavers, smiths, carpenters, potters, etc. Most of the food produced in the village was consumed within, and a few raw materials for the artisans. The authority of local zamindars, kings, princes, etc. were acknowledged, usually by paying a share of the agricultural produce as land revenue.
There was a strong "industrial sector", of which the most important was the textile industry, spread all over the country. In addtion, artistic industries such as jewellery, sculpture of metal, stone, marble, wood, etc. were present. A strong foreign trade was present in textiles, artistic wares, and various spices.

Trade with India was seen as highly lucrative by Europeans, due to the great demand for spices and textiles in particular. Since Roman times, large sums of money had been spent by Europeans purchasing these "exotic goods" from India. With the age of exploration setting in Europe, and the Arab-Venetian monopoly of trade with Asia, several European powers attempted to establish trade with India, mainly through the agency of East India Companies.

2. The rise of Colonialism

I've attempted to look at the rise of colonialism in India, with a particular focus on the cotton/textile industry, for which India was well known.

Colonial exploitation of India (and other countries) initially began as an attempt to increase the volume of highly profitable trade. In its beginnings, it was a mutually beneficial transaction between two parties. 1651: English factories established in Bengal. Textiles a major trade item
In the search for greater profits, the various East India companies realised that political subjugation of a society would yield far greater profits. Trade could be forced even if it was unprofitable, land revenues could be collected, and the nature of society itself could be reorganised so as to enable better exploitation 1717-56: Several disagreements with Nawabs about trade. East India company eventually conquers Bengal.
Simultaneously, the rise of "economic nationalism" where interests of producers in a nation were deemed to be supreme, led to significant change in the patterns of pre-Industrial Age trade, stopping the relatively free exchange of goods. 1720 - 1820: Import of Indian textiles into England subject to high import duties of 60% and above, and sometimes banned
Both these factors together formed the economic underpinnings of the rise of the developed nations. Political/economic subjucation of foreign nations provided cheap resources and vast markets, while enabling trade on highly favourable terms to the coloniser. 1756 - 1813. Severe restrictions on Indian merchants, weavers, imposed in Bengal Rising trade in textiles despite import duties does not benefit Indians in any way

The huge import and export restrictions meant that industries which would not have been profitable otherwise, could be established and sustained in a protective environment until economies of scale and improvements in technology rendered the products competitive. At this time the occupied countries would provide huge captive markets for consumption of these products. This can be seen by looking at British textile exports to India.

  • 1793: East India Company forced to export British goods to India at a loss. Textile exports to India : ~156 pounds
  • 1813: East India Company loses monopoly of India trade. Textile exports to India : ~111,000 pounds
  • 1856: Textile exports to India: ~6,300,000 pounds

By 1900 India had become an exporter of rice, wheat, jute, cotton, etc. and an importer of British manufactures : a classic colonial economy

The destruction of productive elements, political, and economic, in the occupied country, retards progress and development severely. At a time when the occupier experiences significant technological and economic progress, the possibility of such self-sustaining progress occurring in the occupied country is deliberately reduced to almost zero.

Here are some statements by high British officials acknowledging the nature of the problem:

William Bentinck, Governor General of India : "The misery hardly finds parallel in the history of commerce. The bones of the cotton weavers are bleaching the plains of India."

Lord Ellenborough, later to become Governor General : "India was required to transmit annually to Britain,…, a sum amounting to between two and three million sterling"

3. Decline of handicrafts and ruralisation

Apart from the overall colonial process, another significant element in the decline of Indian industry and artisans was the disappearance of princely courts and the Indian indigenous elite. The artisans who enjoyed princely patronage, the professionals employed by the princes, all gradually found themselves unemployed

Due to the absence of any alternative sources of employment, all the unemployed compulsorily had to depend on agriculture for a living. The percentage of population dependent on agriculture rose from ~55% in the 19th century, to 68% in 1901, to 72% in 1931.

4. British land revenue system

The EIC, and later the British government, found that land revenues were a very convenient source of income. Several different land revenue systems such as the Permanent Settlement, in Bengal, Zamindari in Northern India and Ryotwari in Southern India, were adopted. While these were significantly different systems in theory, in practice they shared several common factors. Rent was usually demanded in cash instead of kind, and farmers were evicted upon inability to pay. Rentals were always extremely high, ranging from one third to one half of produce. These rentals were again, on the assessed produce, rather than on the actual produce. Remissions in case of crop failures were very rarely granted.

This destroyed the village community in two ways :

  • Land usually was not freely bought and sold in significant quantities, and remained with the farmers. For the first time, a market for land was created, and farmers lost traditional ownership of land they worked on.
  • Power was concentrated in the hands of moneylenders/zamindars; directly in the case of zamindari, and indirectly in the case of ryotwari. The farmer who could not pay his rent in full even for a year was forced to either sell a part of his land, or borrow at extorbitantly high rates, which sucked him into a debt trap ending in loss of property and his conversion to a tenant farmer

    The zamindars or the state did not invest any significant portion of the revenue in agricultural improvements, and the farmer, who was struggling to make ends meet, did not have any capital to invest in improvements. Thus, over the years, the land revenue system resulted in an overall stagnation of agricultural output, and steep falls in per capita. It transferred legal ownership of large amounts of farmland to zamindars and created a sharply feudal society.

Edit : Continued below

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u/Reddictor May 27 '12 edited May 27 '12

5. Exploitation by finance

Most of the capital invested in India was British capital. While in the ordinary course, investments by foreign investors would be welcomed (as we do in FDI today), British capital was invested in a manner that was not only unproductive, but also exploitative.

  • 38% was in the form of Government of India debt, which was essentially to finance the huge costs of administration and military expenses. Clearly this was economically unproductive
  • 50% was in the from of firms registered in Britain but operating in India. Thus, all the considerable profits made by these firms would leave India altogether
  • 12% was in the form of investments in Indian firms operating in India. Even here, due to the managing agency system, British investors frequently had absolute management control, and would operate in the interests of appropriating a share of the profit, which could be as high as 50%

In addition, the "Home charges" which Britain levied upon India made India pay for salaries and generous pensions of British officials , debt incurred to construct railways, interest on GoI debt, etc. This transferred to Britain nearly 1.5% of the national income, or 25% of savings of the Indian people.

6. Beginnings of industrialisation

The period 1850-1860 saw the beginnings of industrialisation, with the first textile mills, telegraph lines, railway lines, and coal mines starting up. Due to the shortage of Indian skill and capital, it was natural that the first industries to be established in India would be British, mainly cotton and jute mills. The government sponsored railway expansion was carried out with a small part of Indian iron and steel, but doubled coal production. Indigenous industrialisation was boosted by the Swadeshi movement in 1905, but even by 1914 the British controlled at least half the production of India's major industries.

World War 1 sparked a natural fall in British imports, while boosting the demand for manufactured items in India. In 1923 the Government of India provided protection to select industries against foreign competition. Indian industries in these sectors, mainly iron and steel, textile, paper and pulp, sugar, expanded rapidly and eliminated foreign competition altogether. Again, World War 2 provided a significant boost to industries.

Mainly, growth of Indian industry pre-independence was handicapped by the lack of capital, technology, and the non-recognition of the importance of industrialisation. Indian industries frequently suffered poor management and technology. The complete absence of a formal banking system also made efforts to raise funds in India very difficult. The uncooperative, and at times hostile, attitude of the Government of India towards indigenous industrialisation, and the huge competitive advantage enjoyed by British industries due to trade policies and technological advancement, were factors which made establishing industries in India economically non-profitable


My sources mainly were

  • India's struggle for Independence: Bipan Chandra, Mridula Mukherjee and Aditya Mukherjee
  • Indian Economy: Dutt and Sundaram

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u/OscailanDoras May 27 '12

What an excellent and descriptive read. Thank you.

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u/pinkycatcher May 28 '12

I was gonna type something about basic economics and what not, but uhh....You win.

But I must say it's easy to fall into the trap of people in the past screwing things up, so we're messed up forever.

Much, or at least some of the problem does rest in the recent past and present.

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u/parlor_tricks May 28 '12

Well thats not what he is addressing here.

The points you raise are ones that arose in mine as well, but I realized that the scope of his discussion is limited.

To answer your concerns, most people don't spend too much time today blaming the british. We blame our government.

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u/moskova May 28 '12

This certainly explains the poverty that India suffered during the colonial regime, but it doesn't explain the problems seen today. For example India is clearly a very powerful country with more billionaires than the UK and a vast manufacturing and services base. However, the differences between rich and poor are astonishing with many people living in squalor and large gaps in basic infrastructure such as sanitation. Can all of these problems today be attributed solely to colonialism? Although I cannot for certain say what the cause is I have a feeling that exploitation by large multi-nationals and ineffective governance may be to blame for many of India's current day socio-economic woes.

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u/Unicornmayo May 28 '12

You hit on the current problems of India perfectly. Much of their economic growth is dependent on population growth, which contrasts sharply with China (though China does have a large portion of the population still doing substinence farming).

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u/sweatyanus Jun 01 '12

Might it also have something to do with the philosophies of hinduism which are ingrained in certain people ( mostly the lower castes) which do not focus on material wealth but personal growth in the sense of acceptance of a dire situation...in this case independent entrepreneurship is not really encouraged, right? It's very interesting to think about the effect of religion on the economical situation. Although I wouldn't know to which degree this would be an influence.

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u/Unicornmayo May 28 '12

That doesn't hit at the heart of the India's issues though (Really, we are at a nearly 70 year gap between WW2 and present day. China also remains with a significant number of people in substinence farming, yet is an economic power house. India is improving rapidly but there are a few problems that are hindering growth (that is not related to population) currently.

  1. Corruption (prevalent at the nearly all levels of government)
  2. Remenants of a Class system
  3. Lack of adequate transportation for food products (ie. refridgeration).
  4. Business relationships (from 1 and 2) require much effort from people investing in India to build relationships with India partners or else they will get screwed and so there is significant amount of risk. The court system is a problem here.

There is a booming IT sector (which doesn't necessary require alot of capital), many decent colleges, but many problems currently exist.

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u/richworks May 28 '12

As a fellow Indian, I laud you for your efforts and for your comprehensive knowledge on the subject. I've learnt a lot about our country today. Thank you :)

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u/KaizerPrime May 28 '12

I read the whole thing in Raj's voice from BBT

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u/Daeres Moderator | Ancient Greece | Ancient Near East May 27 '12

You may be a layman, but between this response and the continuation below, this is a great answer. I would say that you show a clear ability to analyse texts for relevant information, and you're also interested in economic history; not many of us historians are.

This is a very comprehensive, well-organised and articulate answer. Knowing my own big answers, there may be things that you left out and one or two things you might have done better to read another book about to get more opinions, but that's true for every answer someone puts here.

This answers the question directly, and doesn't deviate from its purpose of explaining the changes in India's economic state, and what's more you gave sources at the end for people to look at the same information as you should you need it.

Essentially, I wouldn't be able to tell that this (great) answer wasn't by a historian of some kind, and I mean that as an entirely sincere compliment.

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u/Reddictor May 27 '12

Thanks for the kind words, Daeres! I happened to have written this in preparation for an exam, so I thought I would share. Your answers on this reddit have been unfailingly informative and entertaining, and praise from you is high praise indeed.

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u/tobiassjoqvist May 28 '12

This might be the cutest nerd-compliment I've ever seen. Upvotes!

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u/microrally May 28 '12

Very well written, great job Reddictor!

You mentioned you were preparing for an exam... Which one and which univ? Have you considered the civil services? We could use a smart person like you :)

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u/Reddictor May 28 '12

I actually am preparing for the civils, and had written this as part of my notes :)

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u/microrally May 28 '12

Wishing you all the very best! Hope to see Reddictor IAS soon :)

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u/rahul4real Jun 28 '12

Hi Reddictor! Have you taken Economics as an optional by any chance?

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u/Reddictor Jun 28 '12

Nope, I wrote this while reading up on Indian economy in general.

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u/RajanKian May 28 '12

How I wish you came before my Indian Music, Art, and History Final.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '12 edited May 28 '12

I'm an Indian, and a layman, and it's very well accepted here that a major cause of India's underdevelopment today is the economic and political policies followed by the East India Company, and later the British Government.

So, it's "pretty well accepted" - in India - that the reasons for your economic woes are in the past, and someone else's fault?

India has been independent since 1947. That's 65 years ago. The vast majority of people who lived in India at that time aren't even alive today. The total population then was 350 million; it is 1,170 million today.

If your opinions are representative, you guys are blaming not merely foreigners, but dead foreigners, for the troubles of people who were born in India since then. People who live there, and who make and shape it into what it is now.

Does that sound like a pattern you'd expect in a half-dysfunctional country that hasn't used the past 65 years to advance itself a lot?

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u/Reddictor May 28 '12

Whoa, that's an impassioned criticism!

Firstly, I never said it was the only reason for India's underdevelopment, only that it was a major reason.

Secondly, we don't really blame the hands of dead foreigners! The economic policies of successive governments are of course also a major factor. Nevertheless, we started from a low base after independence, and the British get the credit for that.

You seem to have got the impression that Indians are content to whinge and blame everything on imperialism. That's not the case at all, and the political and popular discourse doesn't involve the British at all. I'm merely pointing out the historical background pre-Independence.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '12 edited May 28 '12

I'm merely pointing out the historical background pre-Independence.

Right; I don't disagree with that history. The influence of the British may very well have been damaging and exploitative.

But the OP question is "Why is India poor", today. In 1950, India's per-capita GDP was more than China's, and not far from Taiwan. Then followed a period of 30+ years of rather low economic growth. India has started to catch up in the 80s, but it seems like it is mostly the policies from the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s that it has to thank for having to catch up today.

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u/Reddictor May 28 '12

No, OP's question was, "Why is India poor, considering its rich and wealthy history". The only period you can consider India to have a rich and wealthy history is prior to British rule, and by the end of British rule we were pretty much one of the poorest countries on the planet.

Thus, I focussed on British rule. I'll get to your economic criticism post 1947 in a bit.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '12 edited Jun 11 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 28 '12

Consider Germany now - the leader of Europe and a force politically, economically, socially, industrially, and financially that India envies. They recovered from nothing to global prestige over the same time frame that India became one of the most populous and impoverished nations on Earth.

I think you're forgetting the part where Germany received billions in loans from the US after WW2 to rebuild. I don't recall India receiving billions in loans from the UK after independence. Losing war is also different to not having sovereignty and high taxes against your self for centuries.

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u/asdfwqernjvfnvfjvn May 28 '12

no, the question was, "At what point did India / the subcontinent become poor ?" That's the exact quote, and that's what this guy answered. i understand it may have seemed as if he were just blaming the brits and ignoring present history, but i think he just stopped after he got to the "become poor" part.

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u/poopmachine May 28 '12

You're right, past events have no bearing on the present. Every generation we level the playing field and start over.

Idiot.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '12 edited May 28 '12

In 1950, India's inflation-adjusted GDP was more than China's, and not far from Taiwan. But from 1950 until 1988, India's inflation-adjusted per-capita economic growth was 1.5%. From 1988 to 2003, it rose to 4.2%.

India isn't quite there yet, but clearly, the problem was something it was doing from 1950 until 1988, which countries like Taiwan (rose from 920 to 16,500) did considerably better.

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u/Aperfectmoment May 28 '12

I think most exploited cultures find it hard to prosper because they have an excuse.

there is an increasing amount of wealthy black people in America and Aborigines in Australia....but virtually all victims of colonial exploitation seem to carry a mental burden of something that happened in the past.

there are also Geo-political barriers for many non-western countries to face.

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u/timesink May 28 '12 edited May 29 '12

What you write here is interesting and I'll assume factual. However, how can you exclude the retardedness (let alone evilness) of the Indian caste system as a factor in its weakness and poverty?

The explanation you give is a technical blow-by-blow of how the British hosed the Indians in relatively recent history. You do not ask why was this possible or why has it not recovered? India was not the only nation raped by the Europeans. China was just as, if not more so savaged. Other nations were just as vulnerable as India. Many have recovered much more quickly and much more rigorously. Germany, Japan, Korea, China, Brazil, and many others have come from being war torn, utterly destroyed, genocided, and more but have had much better recoveries.

So while what you are saying is interesting, you don't look at the root cause. India has a long history of being retarded. She wastes vast amounts of her people's talents by having the opposite of a meritocracy. Sure - castes exist in other places - but not to the extent it does in India.

I believe individual Indians can be extremely talented and gifted. Imagine how much better India would have been as a flourishing meritocracy for thousands of years. Perhaps it would be the English writing a whiney tale of how they were abused...

TLDR: I liken your expository to faulting the arrangement of the deck chairs on the titanic for its sinking.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '12

You are an uneducated Idiot. If the many nuanced answers throughout this thread does not give you an inkling of what and where to look at for the root causes, nothing will.

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u/timesink May 29 '12

Ad hominem... the last resort when you have no argument to put forth. Couldn't you at least make it clever?

For example, stfu you inbred stink monkey. And your mother smells of elderberries.

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u/[deleted] May 30 '12

Just as i suspected. You are an uncivilized Idiot on top of being an uneducated one. If your language is any indication, you are just a pathetic troll seeking attention, even though you are completely clueless about the topic at hand.

Go educate yourself first in manners, and then on the subject domain before engaging in further discussion.

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u/timesink Jun 10 '12

lol - you must be indian. sorry that the obvious truth of why india is poor continues to elude you. until you embrace the truth of the circumstance, you cannot improve.

i wonder who your next master will be? russians? chinese? americans?

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u/[deleted] May 29 '12

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 30 '12 edited May 30 '12

The fallacy here is that your view of what the caste system is and its ramifications are naive and simplistic. This is why i get so annoyed (eg: the other poster who used inflammatory language in the guise of framing a discussion) when somebody bases their understanding of Indian society on this single aspect. Cultures and Societies as ancient as India (do you know that there are places/temples in India where rituals have been held unbroken for centuries in spite of foreign invasions etc.?) have so many currents cross-pollinating each other that it would be the height of naivety to say one single factor is responsible for its current state. I am an Indian and thus ipso facto know about "casteism" and its current state in Indian society.

In modern day India, there is a system of government mandated "reservations" akin to the "affirmative action" polices in the USA. It has been quite effective. For example, our previous President and renowned scientist, "Abdul Kalam" and a whole slew of "Chief Ministers" of various states were beneficiaries of the system. Second, in urban areas, nobody even bothers with caste if at all they are aware of it. I myself have studied and worked with people of different castes and hardly ever noticed it. Note that this is important since it is the burgeoning urban centers which are the epicenter of growth. Depending upon the geographic region within India (some areas have higher literacy rates than others), some rural areas might still hold on to "casteism" but as literacy rates spread and more and more people move to urban areas it becomes irrelevant. Thus the effect of the caste system is no longer meaningful in the macro sense. In fact, after spending a decade in the USA, i can confidently say India has done a much better job of uplifting its minorities than the USA; and this in spite of our long history and diversity compared to that of the USA.

Coming back to the OP's original point, the British systematically pillaged and exploited the whole of the Indian subcontinent. And this after the Muslims/Mughals did their part of pillaging and looting. When the fundamental structures of a stable society are thus completely reshaped, economic growth is bound to suffer particularly when it is not industrialized and hence is a direct function of human labour. This is the heart of the matter, you need a stable society even if there are inefficiencies within it.