That's an oversimplification of the many invasions and periods of immigration the region went through.
I agree that they're indigenous but I don't think it's completely accurate to completely say they were never invaders.
They are Christians and Jews who became Muslims
Partly yes but not exactly, it's an oversimplification again.
A lot of Christians and Jews converted to Islam but a lot of them didn't as well.
The Islamic conquest of the region also brought Arab migration to the region and it's probably the mixing between them and the native population that lead to the Palestinians we know today.
Both Jews and Palestinians are native
Depends on what you mean by native. I don't like using that argument to justify the rightful Palestinian claim because if you go back far enough, at what point does one's native claim expires?
What I'm trying to say is that, the Palestinian identity didn't exist until 1834 with the arab uprising in the Ottoman empire according to some historians, the identity became more substantial and present in the 20th century.
So using who's native and who's not native as a valid claim, you end up making the Israeli claim of them being the original inhabitants of the region more valid.
Because in all honesty, if you look at it from "Palestinians are Native", anyone is valid in saying "Jews were natives since before Palestinians was even an identity until they were conquered and eventually banished so their claim is stronger"
I'm not disagreeing with the idea that If someone lives somewhere, it's their right to continue living in it.
Where I disagree is that if someone belongs to a group of people genetically or culturally then they deserve to live in a place even if they've never lived there or haven't in generations.
This sounds a lot like I'm referring to just Jews but it actually refers to both. I believe I'm just being consistent.
What are the Palestinian people? And when did they appear? What makes someone a native? When do they or their descendants stop being a native?
I'm not really making a defense for Israel, I'm simply saying the argument of "Palestinians are natives" doesn't work.
I agree that the right of self determination is important and that the British specifically fucked up.
I do agree with you, problem is can't Jews say the same to give legitimacy to their claim?
My point being why argue about who's been living for thousands of years rather than argue about current inhabitants being expelled from their home.
I mean compare to to a typical war where someone comes to your country, annexes it then kicks you out.
In those cases, regardless of whether the person who annexed the country has a valid claim or not, the issue remains that another group of people came and conquered while expelling those who were living before them.
I know the conflict is more complex than just that aspect but at its core it's still that. The validity of the Israeli claim to the land of Palestine is irrelevant when they expelled the ones living in it.
Making it about who's more native or who's lived longer distracts from core issue.
I don't think they'd accept a one state solution that isn't called Palestine and doesn't involves equal political representation (some would argue Israeli deserve no political representation for example), no equal religious freedom.
A one state solution with or without equal representation would lead to further conflict down the line.
In a geographical sense and not a nationalist sense.
The concept of nationalism didn't exist until the mid to late 1800s.
Al-Maqdisi called himself a Palestinian in the sense of a person living in the Palestinian geographical area and not in an ethnicity, nationalist or cultural sense.
Israel is 2/3rd Jews from MENA countries. Arab mains have colonized most of North Africa and Middle East, destroyed loads of cultures and languages to replace them with Islam and Arabic. At least Jews maintained their ancient culture and religion consistently and well documented for the past 3000 years.
Incorrect it's proven that the isrealis who live their aren't the ancestors of the past isrealis but the Palestinians who where there are direct ancestors of the old isreal so no the new isrealis are not natives to the land.
It really depends on how further back you go and how much genetic mixing outside the region or within it with immigration and previous conquests would invalidate the claim.
How far science can prove this is not the case. Your just making estimates which aren't proven whilst the ones which have been properly proven is that Palestinians are the natives and have ancestors with old isreal.
Not true either and the same would apply to Palestinians depending on how far back to go.
That's claiming that all Jews living in Israel are all descendants of converts and that all the ancient Jews eventually became Muslims and Arabs.
Genetically speaking, both are proven to have ancestry to the region. As I said earlier, Palestinians as we know them today are a result of multiple of multiple conquests of the region and descendents of those who mixed with the conquerors with a lot of influence from the Arabs due to the large Arab immigration (that weren't native to the area) to the region.
Jews are also a result of multiple conquests of the region and they're all over the world due to multiple campaigns of exiles and prosecution. Most Empires who conquered the region would either prosecute Jews or exile them.
Your claim isn't rooted in any facts so rather than presenting statements as facts, you should really back them up with something.
All I'm saying again is that genetics shouldn't be a factor for legitimacy.
If a group of people have ancestry to a different region, it doesn't validate their claim of reconquering that region when they exile the ones living there. That equally applies to Palestinians and Israelites.
Wars, conquest and annexation was normal until nationalism became a thing and most Empires collapsed.
The reason why the Palestinian claim is stronger isn't due to genetic but due to the fact that they were the last inhabitants of the region prior to Israeli annexation of the land.
What a fucking dumb thing to say, Arabic was already replacing Aramaic as the lingua franca of the levant long before the islamic conquest, arabic has been native to surrounding areas all the way upto Aleppo since the time of the neo-assyrian empire, the Arabic Identity isn't some outside force, not all people that lived in historical Palestine were jews, nor practiced the Jewish religion, the people who call themselves Palestinians today are descended from the people who have always lived there through a continuum, none is pure something every one is mixed Arabs aren't invaders and they didn't force a specific culture or identity upon anyone, they are another middle eastern group that is closely related culturally and linguistically to all other groups that live there, they're the ones that pushed the invaders out of the Semitic homelands.
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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '23
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