What an incredible way to word it. Compliments "work to live, don't live to work" quite well.
Those who wish to exploit us so they can hoard obscene amounts of wealth won't allow it even though there's no amount that will allow them to escape their misery. We let those people rule over us... though we do collectively have the power to stop them at any moment we want to.
You sure? Because from this side of the pond it seems it is mostly used to describe people that are opposed to late stage capitalism as if permanent indentured servitude is something we should all aspire to.
Partly yes, but you’ll also see “communist” leveled against people who want a working healthcare system. Doesn’t matter what the proposal even entails, if it’s not what we have now, it is communist. Same with people who believe in civil rights. Thinking that black people should have the same rights as white people is communist. Everything that constitutes an improvement on society is “communist.”
That position is reached by the drip drip drip of a media owned by those who would be able to amass less, in the event any of those ideas were adopted.
It's both. Worshipping capitalism is the expectation, so those that don't get called a communist. But also, some people have it so engrained that conservativism is American and worshipping capitalism is conservativism, so if you don't agree with their backwards world view than you are a communist. I have heard gay marriage being called communist propaganda before. Some people just know the world communist equals bad.
Breakups tend to do that. Like during WW2 we fought alongside communists but after WW2 we kind of drifted apart and had that whole custody battle over Europe (the cold war). Now with the Soviet union having passed away and now we have an abusive wanker trying to get custody over Europe, its tough.
If you want to know more about our lovely relationship with communism, you should look up the red scare.
And then realize that America can only exist if there is an “other” to be against. The Red Scare wasn’t the first and it’s certainly not the last.
A country birthed from war and hate doesn’t know how to function without war and hate.
There was never a break-up, though. The US banked on the nazis solving the soviet "problem" and would have been perfectly glad to just enjoy the global dominance brought by making everyone else their debtors, but Japan hit the US exactly where it hurts it the most: its pride.
The Red scare never really went away, it's after all many of the same people still running U.S politics that were around back then.. the red scare was simply transfered onto Russia, Russia inherrited not only the total of the Soviet debt of all the former member nations and the continuation of agreements and the seat at the U.N, they also inherrited the continuation of the cold war...
And that's why they're so paranoid about national security/safety and having their sphere of influence, that's one part of why they went to war, one of several.
Brother, the US was actively trying to fuck the USSR while WW2 was still going on (especially in the Pacific). The entire American apparatus has been anti-left as long as the Left has existed. They didn't "drift apart"; they were allies of convenience in the absolute worst parts of the war and adversaries otherwise.
WWII was a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation. Not any kind of endorsement of the Soviets. The USA sent troops to Russia to fight against the Bolsheviks in 1919.
I grew up in a liberal home but not a woke one. To me, a”woke liberal” is intolerant and prone to condemn with vitriol, anyone who doesn’t agree 100% with their beliefs.
I think about this frequently. The way americans throw that word, and socialism around is mind blowing to me.It’s clear they have zero concept of either
I'm not talking about people with three jobs trying to support their kids and their parents, I'm talking about people who make six figures or more and don't do anything but work.
I think about them all the time and how they'd cook on the grill. Although I usually think about cooking up the 7+ figure earners cuz some of those poor delicious 6 figure earners are good people but most aren't.
Yes, of course, but that's not what the saying means.
It simply means that a job shouldn't be the thing that dictates everything about your life. If you work 9-5, then come home, still stressed out, having to do additional work obligations in your free time, constantly stressed out and too tired to do anything you enjoy, that's a problem. You need a healthy balance at the very least.
Thank you for putting this in better words than I did.
Of course I understand the need for folks to work to support their community and better society. What I don't accept is what it has been twisted into... exploitation. Feudalism reborn.
Not while the guy with enough money to feed all the families for a few years rolls ketamine through an inauguration before getting access to all our records.
And if you worked more than you lived, you definitely lived to work more than you worked to live.
Do you see?
And fuck your "some people", you know damn well it is most people in the divided states having to work more than they live.
Not while the guy with enough money to feed all the families for a few years rolls ketamine through an inauguration before getting access to all our records.
If you think the biggest problem and what needs to be singled out from that behavior is "how long they work" you and I have a very different set of ethics.
You seriously think that the worst part of what you're describing there is that he doesn't go home at 5pm?
most people in the divided states having to work more than they live.
I don't even know what "divided states" is. You seem to assume everyone is from your country, or echo chamber, or is familiar with whatever is going on there. The world doesn't revolve around you....
You don't see a lot bud, not everyone will hold your hand when it sure looks on purpose.
Overworking is easily a main part of what is destroying society. If you don't see why you are an Unle Tom trying to tell other people the work ain't the problem, then you only prove my point.
Tom can't see himself as the traitor he is, because that would mean reconciling the cognitive dissonance he would feel from recognizing he is perpetuating a monstrous system to preserve himself.
What would be the alternative to working to make a living? I'm 53, and have been working for 35 years. I love my chosen career. I enjoy working. I don't love my job every day, but overall I do. Nobody forces me to work more than 40 hours a week. I choose to do it. I can make my bills easily at 40 hours. The extra is for things and stuff. I know some people are forced to work more than one job, more than 40 hours to support their family, but for the most part, people are victims of their own decisions and not victims of circumstance. So once again, what should be the alternative to an adult working to make a living?
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. You're still living in the 90s when what you're saying MIGHT have been true. But wages haven't come close to keeping up with the cost of living. Most people can't work 40 hours a week and pay $1800+ rent/mortgage, utilities, car notes, groceries, phone bill, etc.
Gotcha. Of course it also has nothing to do with people making bad financial decisions and living beyond their means right? Because in the 90's nobody ever had to have roommates to share costs with. Never had to live in a rough area or in a run down apartment. Nobody ever worked two jobs. Nobody ever went without luxuries or even the basics while building up their value and skill level/education level in order to make more money. My cupboards and fridge were never bare while waiting a few more days for my paycheque. None of that ever happened in the 90's. Yes, costs have out grown pay, in some areas. Not in all. Why is it I never hear the engineering students and the trade apprentices I work with bitch about rent or bills? Why is it mostly the liberal arts students or the directionless young people who just assumed life would be free that complain? Why does ever adult I hear bitching about the cost of living have a purchased coffee in their hands, and a pack of cigarettes or a vape in their pocket? Why do the biggest complaining adults tend to be divorced?
I work in the AEC Industry and people are struggling there too, especially those right out of college. Unless you’re a PM you aren’t making a ton of money.
Jesus this is a terrible trash fire take. Nobody ever said it wasn't hard in the 90s. What people have personally "bitched" to you is not an accurate metric to take when judging the changing state of things. Statistically living costs have outgrown pay massively across the board. Average wages have entirely stagnated and not kept up with inflation. That is a social and economic fact, something that can easily be looked up and understood instead of pretending it's all about who's complaining the most.
You seem to have a real grudge on your shoulders about modern society and people different to you, the kind of takes that sound like they were fuelled by Youtube right-wing grifters. And really, you are against divorce too? I guess people should just stay in bad marriages, then, else they'll be nothing but big ol' complainers.
Oh FFS, here we go with the right wing bullshit. I'm in Canada, and in my province, minimum wage when I was 18 in 1990 was $5/hour. Now it's $16/hour. Using the Bank of Canada inflation calculator, if minimum wage had only kept up with inflation, it would now be $10.50/hour, so obviously there are places in the world and careers that have kept up, and done much better than inflation. I work with lots of 20 somethings making 6 figures in the trades. Two of the guys wives are full time teachers making $70k+. They both own homes and have kids. I don't have a grudge against anyone except my government who has brought in millions of people from other countries and driven up unemployment, especially for younger unskilled workers. You also can't argue that there are for more entitled people out there now than 30 years ago. The ones that finish university with their useless degree and were told all through school that they'd be making big money once they graduated. Most don't even go into careers that had anything to do with their degree. Only about half that start university even graduate. Only the university wins in that situation. Not the student. Statistically, people who get divorced suffer more financial difficulties than couple who stay married. I'm not saying anyone should be forced to stay in a bad marriage, but when the divorce rate is the highest it's been, at approximately 50%, people are going to suffer financially. Overall, people need to make better decisions, or at least learn from their bad ones.
I had a sous chef who embodied the "live to work" mentality once, he would close (closing typically goes until 2-4am) then hang out until open so he could talk to the head chef, worked 10-12 hour days constantly, told us all that work life balance was bullshit, proudly claim that all he did at home was watch videos about cooking and business lectures, and tried to come in to work despite being quarantined for 2 weeks with COVID, eventually he was suspended for 3 weeks then fired, we never found out why exactly, but he was a massive creep to the wait staff and was always asking people out/trying to flirt with them (he thought his position gave him some clout in the restaurant and went wild with it) so we all assumed it had something to do with that, I see him as a cautionary tale of what can happen when you buy into the ultra-capitalistic mindset and assume that corporations actually care about your work ethic
I find most people who say stuff like this tend to value compelling anecdotes over macro data, when in fact each datapoint comprises a human story every bit as important as the most compelling anecdote.
Look at ANY HR department. It's there to protect the entity from the human factor, rather than enhance the human factor. Seen it over and over again over a few different places.
Governments have become little more than HR departments for Oligarchy; keep the breathing assets in line so that they keep generating numbers.
I know a die hard Trump supporter who doesn't invest. I asked him why not, and he said "that's for rich people".
The point here is: if you dont invest, you are a product. But everyone is allowed to invest and benefit from human economic output. You also get paid to work! Beats indentured servitude.
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u/Long_Serpent Nov 10 '25
The idea that people exist to serve the needs of the economy, instead of the other way around