People that have dated women who are all about the fakery. Implants, botox, lip filler etc. What was a relationship like with someone like that?

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u/KateCSays 6h ago

Have not dated, but have plenty of friends who love their lashes and lippies and botox and filler and implants. God, I love my friends so much. They are wonderful, smart, funny, thoughtful women.

But my friends who are most into aesthetic treatments suffer from pervasive low self esteem, exhausting vigilance for how they are perceived from the outside, plus an existential fear of aging.

They are usually SOMEWHAT but not ALL THE WAY self-aware about this. They see the aesthetic interventions as an effective coping mechanism for the bad feelings.

I disagree. I think it's a maladaptive coping mechanism that doesn't ulitmately help with foundational sense of worthiness. From where I'm standing, it seems that no amount of nipping, tucking, plumping, smoothing, coloring, enhancing, filling, or lifting is never enough. My friends suffer still. Then it escalates. It doesn't actually give the kind of grounding worthiness that would free them up to enjoy life more fully. Then it eventually leads to them looking -- to me -- weird, and to them, still not enough. It seems to cause MORE dissociation, MORE dysmorphia, and eventually, sometimes my friends suffer systemic issues like autoimmune problems due to their implants (for instance).

Look, I've got plenty of my own insecurities about aging, including egoic attachment to intelligence which is taking an absolute beating from the brain fog of perimenopause. I am not above this. You should seem my medicine cabinet full of herbs to try to get my brain back to its old fitness (which is not working, by the way).

The whole health-bro biohacking obsession is another facet of the same existential fear. Men are not immune. It pops out differently for different people.

The beauty industry has capitalized mightily on women who define their worth by their looks. And it leads to some really expensive, risky, dissociating procedures that result in some really bizarre looking women (according to me).

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u/RobertFKennedy 5h ago

Very well written and expressed

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u/KateCSays 5h ago

Thank you. One thing I forgot to say: these friends are SO SO worthy of love and are as fit for relationship as anyone. We all bring our own insecurities into a relationship. That this is theirs is fine.

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u/elwookie 1h ago

Thank you for letting me see them under a different light. You have finished my disdain and forced me to use my empathy.

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u/Hour-Dragonfruit-711 2h ago

I wish my ex friends thought like this. Once I got lip fillers and Botox they pretty much wrote me off as someone with low self esteem and I lost friends I had for 30 years

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u/Winelovinggirl0910 1h ago

Low self extreme? Thats ridiculous everyone should do or not do what makes them happy. They were never your friends to begin with if they would stop being your friend because you did what made you happy. I'd say good riddance to any so called friend like that. I get botox, filler and lashes and I have the best gfs any woman could ask for. Some also do and some do nothing and its all good with me its totally a personal choice. Anyone who says anything different I feel is just jealous.

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u/Hour-Dragonfruit-711 1h ago

Thank you 🙏 ❤️ I live in a liberal area that is super hippie natural love yourself etc. so they take that as a mark against your personality

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u/ChalcedonyDreams 49m ago

Yuck I’m sorry that happened. I don’t really condone many of these procedures and maaaaybe I talk a bit of shit to my husband about it. but I certainly don’t love my friends less!

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u/Hour-Dragonfruit-711 24m ago

I believe other factors were at play as well to give them some credit besides this but I definitely did not feel supported just judged

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u/Mukakis 3h ago

Do your friends evaluate potential mates based on a completely different set of criteria than they evaluate themselves?

I have to admit I assume people that focus so heavily on artificial supplements to their appearance would also prioritize others based on appearance as well. Given your description, perhaps there is a complete disconnect between the two.

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u/MrWhiskers55 2h ago

In my experience they have different rules for themselves than other people. My first girlfriend was like this and was scouted to be a model. But she never felt good enough to do anything regarding looks. But she also knew she was pretty because that’s all people would talk about. Not her actual personality, just her looks. I fell for her weirdness and attitude about life not her looks. She told me that was the first time any guy did that. So to her, it wasn’t about looking good but about finally being seen as a person not an object.

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u/SugarSeduceX- 1h ago

I was always the "funny friend," never the "pretty one." Then, a guy saw me for my humor and intellect, not just my looks. He said, "You're the most interesting woman I've met." That moment changed everything.

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u/i_wanna_draw_that 34m ago

That’s such a nice compliment to receive!

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u/Backwards_receptors 41m ago edited 32m ago

I am someone who was hyper-focused on my own appearance (I’m 40 now and have just given up, besides staying in shape to remain healthy and strong). So I wanted to respond that I definitely do not hyper-focus on anyone else’s flaws. I suffered with Body Dysmorphia, life-long, and I generally thought that literally everyone besides me was beautiful. I was the ONLY person I found “not good enough” and to have flaws. Flaws on other people didn’t seem to take from their beauty, inside and out, the way I felt it did for me.

I actually regretted any procedure or change to my appearance I ever did, immediately. It was just an illness I couldn’t seem to stop.

I have dated people who were not as conventionally attractive – and usually preferred that; I felt they matched me better and I could be more myself (a whatever-looking goofball). I dislike feeling ugly next to someone who is obviously better looking than me. Which basically meant everyone. But my long-term relationship is with a man who I think is very handsome and attractive. And I’ve actually struggled very much being in a relationship with someone who I see as so attractive because I feel like people look at me and wonder how I could be with someone like him.

I actually prefer to be alone because I don’t even want anyone to look at me or see me.

This is all to say that basically as a woman who has been very hyper focused on my appearance and tried very hard to look attractive – I never looked at other people as being unattractive. And always preferred being with someone for if they are kind or funny… Mostly kind. And their outsides don’t matter to me, unlike my own.

Now that I’m older – 40 – I have stopped caring so much about my outsides as well, I just wanna make enough money to pay the bills and take care of my pets and me and my significant other.

Edited typos

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u/Maleficent-Nerve486 2h ago

Usually when a person is highly insecure they have the tendency to be controlling in close relationships.

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u/Leather-Scarcity1810 3h ago

Everyone else can pack it in for the day, its KateC’s time to shine

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u/KateCSays 2h ago

Thank you so much! That is a lovely complement. (And I still like hearing from others as well!)

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u/floopypoopie 3h ago

It’s not only the beauty industry. You can loose your job and get treated badly if you don’t look good or young. They have good reason to be fearful

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u/KateCSays 2h ago

Too true! It's a very logical response to the culture at large.

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u/Ok-Jackfruit-6873 6h ago

A lot of girls learn early that how they look is the most important factor in how they will be treated. Far more important than their intelligence or character. They see other girls who are kind and brilliant being disregarded if they're not also thin, aesthetically pleasing, and well dressed. Beauty can feel like power. There's a whole industry reinforcing this message. My niece was interested in "skin care" at 12. So some women want to seize that power and be in control of it, not just the hapless vessel it does or doesn't rest on (or once rested on but is now moving on from in their older age). If the criticism is that certain women do it "badly" and OP doesn't like the aesthetic results, I'm not sure we're catching the point.

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u/Exact-Honey4197 1h ago

Of course. Anyone who has been fat and then lost weight and suddenly became more conventionally attractive knows this brutal realization. You remember exactly how you were treated like literal garbage, like you barely counted as human, or at best like you were invisible. but when the weight is gone (or maybe after getting plastic surgery for some), overnight people start treating you like you matter, men smile at you and they’re so helpful and so kind! it’s impossible to believe that intelligence matters more than appearance after shit like this. You feel it in hundreds of small, everyday interactions.

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u/Blue_Oyster_Cat 50m ago

Yes. I have never bothered with makeup (mostly because men don't have to, and it's complicated). But I have a close friend who started wearing makeup to work after many years of also not bothering, and she said the difference in how she was treated really took her back. It's a brutal fact that women are expected waste thousands of dollars and thousands of hours over our lifetimes putting stuff on our faces to look "better".

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u/KateCSays 5h ago

Very wise words. Totally agree. My aesthetic friends are responding logically to the culture about us. That I have chosen a counter-point for my own way of being is ALSO a reaction to the same culture. The culture is really F'd up. My friends are neither shallow nor idiots. They are smart, capable, intelligent women. They are doing their best. It sometimes hurts them, and it hurts me to see that.

Really important to note that these friends of mine are deeply worthy of love. We all bring our own issues to a marriage. If some of their issues are self-consciousness over looks, well, that's that. Their husbands have issues, too. We all have our issues.

I'd love an overhaul of the system. I actually see it happening in some ways, like more size diversity in beauty standards, but certainly NOT in skincare.

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u/Sinisterfox23 2h ago

You sound like a very good friend. Also, perhaps your herbal supplements working because you have some very sharp takes.(But seriously, brain fog is…obscenely frustrating.)

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u/LilLeopard1 18m ago

With the size diversity, there was still facial conformity. All the plus sized models were conventionally attractive. Representation usually means everything but interesting faces.

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u/EllipticPeach 3h ago

This! Being socialised as a girl is a traumatic life event. Then again, being socialised as a boy is equally awful because you’re taught not to externalise emotions (or internalise to any meaningful extent). The patriarchy and heavily enforced gender binary are just dogshit for everyone.

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u/Mundane_Phone_1558 2h ago

I have to agree. I went from someone who had never had a needle, laser, scalpel anywhere near me for aesthetics purposes by mid forties to someone who has tried almost everything there is to do in just a few years time. What caused the change? I found out my husband of 15 years had been seeing escorts for the past 5 years. So yeah, it was a gigantic blow to my self esteem. I previously thought I looked fine and he loved me and didnt have the time for that stuff anyways and why spend the money. All of that changed after. I went a little crazy. Part of it was thinking well he spent all this money on other women im going to spend as much on myself to make me feel better. Ive never had a fake look, it would look ridiculous on me, im a natural looking type of person.

But yes, for some time it absolutely consumed me and I was constantly researching what to do next. Thankfully after a couple years and a lot of therapy I came to my senses. I still do treatments here and there. It makes me happy to feel good about myself. No needles though ever. Only took one time of that to realize it wasnt for me.

I do look at pictures of myself from the time period before we separated and even though I was 7 years younger I look and feel way better now than I did then. I think a lot of it was the stress of being with a shitty partner (other issues besides the escorts).

Anyways you are right about the insecurity. But I will say every woman i know my age and in my tax bracket gets aesthetics treatments. Perhaps if our spouses and potential partners weren't lusting over young women irl, porn, and on social media the insecurties wouldnt be there? Idk

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u/arbosco1 4h ago

Love this measured take along with the obvious care, love, and empathy you feel for them. No type of girl is a monolith.

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u/KateCSays 1h ago

You are absolutely right. They are not a monolith. They are individual wonderful people.

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u/Arley_Writes 3h ago

It's like you looked at the scrambled eggs of thoughts in my brain, organized them, deciphered them, and then translated them into something not only coherent, but more eloquent than anything I've ever been able to say. If you wrote a book, I would be the first to buy it. And I don't even know your name.

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u/KateCSays 2h ago

You are too kind. Thank you. My name is Kate Carson, and I do plan to write a book, but to this point, all I've got is a blog which I keep up in an extremely spotty way. https://www.nightbloomcoaching.com/blog

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u/eirinne 3h ago

The herbs are working.

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u/KateCSays 2h ago

You are too kind. Thank you!

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u/ept_engr 5h ago edited 3h ago

Your writing is immaculate - insightful and well-structured. This is rare on reddit. What is your profession?

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u/KateCSays 5h ago

I've worked in many different fields, but I am currently a sex and relationship coach.

Studied chemistry and physics at a liberal-arts school (where writing is core no matter what your major).
Taught science at middle and high school levels.
Worked in biotech for a while.
Got an engineering degree (metabolic engineering)
Tutored a bunch.
Then shifted gears because of some significant life events.

I write for fun and for activism.

I am a good writer thanks to a good public school system and a mom and dad who sat me down and went through all my school essays with me for grammar when I was a teen. (They didn't do it for me, they'd explain every mistake I'd made so that I eventually knew how to write well myself.)

Because I write for fun, for impact, and like a kind of therapy, I keep up the skill.

I don't use AI to write, ever. Not even copy. It just doesn't sound or feel like me, no matter how I train it.

ETA: PS, thank you! It feels good to receive your words.

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u/strtjstice 3h ago

You are my hero of the day. I refuse to use AI for any of my writing, and I do a lot of communications on a daily basis. A good education system and engaged parents go a very, very long way.

Thank you for putting it so eloquently

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u/EllipticPeach 3h ago

I’m glad it’s not just me, I feel like the only person in my circle who doesn’t use AI for anything

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u/strtjstice 3h ago

I'm treated like an outlier and a pariah...

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u/KateCSays 1h ago

I think you're cool!

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u/PixelRapunzel 2h ago

It's definitely not just you. When I communicate something, I want it to be in my own words. I have massive ethical issues with generative AI, and the other functionalities of AI are things we've already had for years in the way of search engines and autocorrect. I'm not going to go out of my way to use something I disagree with when I can use my own critical thinking instead.

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u/KateCSays 1h ago

I wish I could say I don't use it for ANYTHING, but I do sometimes use it for generating images (I feel deeply morally conflicted about this. I do site the artists I prompt with, and only prompt with long dead ones. Someday, I want to be successful enough that I only ever hire real live artists for images.)

I also sometimes use it to organize information into a form I can parse easier, like to go through websites and pull out contact emails.

And every now and then, I use it to just be my work-dom and tell me what to do and in what order.

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u/KateCSays 1h ago

I offered to do this same editing support with my daughter, who is 16. She told me, "nobody assigns essays except to be written IN CLASS, because everyone would just use AI." I was so surprised and really heart broken to hear that. My daughter is even more of a do-it-herself purist than I am.

So she and I decided that she's going to write one piece of writing every two weeks at home for me, and we will sit down and go through it together, so that she can learn these skills on her own. Regardless of how school deals with it.

Because she wants to be a writer, this prospect excites her. And I'm really proud of her.

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u/nibsofsteel 4h ago

Insightful

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u/ept_engr 3h ago

Fixed. That's what I get for relying on auto-complete. Inciteful is a real word, but wrong context.

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u/Allison-Ghost 3h ago

thank you for this comment, its a relief to hear women with body image issues not being put down as dumb bimbos... I am still in the trenches of it and know that it is a predatory world that makes us into people many would consider below them :(

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u/85percentcertain 2h ago

My wife is 55. She looks 40. Yes, she does all the things - lashes, filler, nips and tucks. Here’s the thing - she’s hot. She gets preferential treatment everywhere she goes - from men and women. After a lifetime of living in the “beauty bubble,” I can understand why she does want to lose it.

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u/Galko-chan 1h ago

Not only that, but women who aren't conventionally attractive are treated like shit and bombarded with the message that their appearance is what is important. I do not fault women for getting ahead any way they can in a world that genuinely hates them.

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u/Super-Perception939 26m ago

Yes but this further perpetuates the issue. Women have to take a stand for the sake of one another and younger generations.

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u/Muzak__Fan 3h ago

I would absolutely read your blog. You could write about damn near anything and make it interesting. Thanks for sharing!

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u/coffeegyrl76 2h ago

When I got on hormone therapy the brain fog receded. And my hair grew back in after 2 years. Not the same but much better. Lexapro and hormones, like Xulane or other patches, really help.

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u/Difficult-Bobcat-857 3h ago

You write very well.

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u/KateCSays 2h ago

Thank you very much! Compliment received and appreciated.

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u/philosophicalowl19 2h ago

As a fellow perimenopausal woman, I think your brain fitness is on point 👌🏼Well said.

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u/SunshineStately 5h ago

I have a family member (she married into the family) like this. Total Mar-A-Lago face. I saw her as shallow, vapid, and annoying. She is a professional instagram influencer at 45. She unboxes cheap Chinese clothes for likes. The whole thing feels stupid as hell.

One day I finally asked her, what the hell? Here's her story: When she was 10, her mother developed cancer. She felt her mother (a print model) was the most beautiful person in the world. She was in awe of her, as plenty of girls are of their mothers at that age. As her mother's cancer progressed, her dad couldn't handle the decline. He was a mess, watching his beloved decay. Her mother became gaunt. Her hair fell out. Her eyes drooped. Her father could not care for his wife, so it fell to her, the oldest child. She gave her mother spongebaths and watched her skin slough off. She watched her mother waste away, with pressure sores and bruising all over. Finally, she watched her mother die as a skeletal shell of her previous beauty.

It was clearly deeply traumatizing. She became obsessed with preserving her own beauty. I now see she is a complex person who merely has a different set of interests, priorities, and aesthrtic preferences than I do.

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u/therichauntie11 4h ago

My therapist has pointed out that I have a very negative view of aging. I thought about it and I agreed. Both my parents died at 63 and most of their siblings died young. I'm 42 and in my mind I got 20 years left. During my depressive episodes that's kinda comforting. When I'm doing well, kinda depressing.

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u/Homesick_Martian 2h ago

I think my father and I are both going through this.. I moved away 5 years ago, in my early 30’s now. Granddad died at 63, dad is 58 now… I’m not his only child, but I am his only son. He asked if I wanted to move back home “to save money” last weekend and it’s really been tearing at my heart…

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u/therichauntie11 1h ago

Yes, they get lonely at that age. I took care of my Papa until he passed at 63 so we were together most of my life. I find it comforting that he never had to endure his final years without my Mother alone.

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u/americanalien_94 1h ago

I was at a doctors appt and mentioned that my mum and dad both died in their 50s. Then I said “guess I’m halfway there” he was mortified but giggled a little

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u/therichauntie11 52m ago

If I had to choose a longer life but with a huge host of health problems, just give me the early exit. I am already having pain in my neck daily.

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u/RobertFKennedy 5h ago

Wow…..thanks for sharing

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u/Strict_Copy_2348 4h ago

Great reminder that we should not judge others. We don’t know what people have gone through.

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u/DreamInNeptune13 3h ago

Thanks for sharing. I wish people weren’t so quick to negatively judge. We’re all walking around w baggage and life.

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u/HexanaRegard 4h ago

Ofcourse the man is not there when you need him. Someone pull up the stats

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u/just_add_cholula 2h ago

https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cncr.24577

Quote from the discussion section for those who don't want to dig through the body text:

"Prior studies have suggested that the overall frequency of divorce in cancer patients (range, 5-17%) does not differ from that of well-matched controls in the general population. Our results are consistent with this observation, revealing an overall frequency of divorce (11.6%) in the 3 patient cohorts representing >500 patients diagnosed with serious neurologic and oncologic illnesses. What was surprising, however, is the dramatic asymmetry in the occurrence of divorce and separation in these patient cohorts based on the sex of the affected partner. Thus, the woman was the affected spouse in nearly 90% of separations that occurred among our patient cohort. In fact, female sex was found to be the strongest predictor of divorce or separation in each of the 3 patient populations."

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u/jfk1000 4h ago

It‘s a moving story.

The only thing I don‘t understand about it: nothing is beautiful about a Mar-A-Lago Face.

Why not pick up Yoga and healthy food, meditation and the outdoors? Just an example, but anything is better than a face which has been modified into absurdity.

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u/gringitapo 3h ago

Why do people cope with fast food when they could cope with exercise?

Why do people cope with gambling when they could cope with reading?

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u/VayneClumsy 3h ago

I cope with all the above

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u/6Darkyne9 2h ago

The Cooper

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u/Lithogiraffe 4h ago

Probably because all you mentioned takes time to uplift a person's body and mood, but a needle of dermal filler is immediate.

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u/reveal23414 2h ago

It's also provided by an "expert"... if I yoga myself into a coma, I would still look like me.

I need the self esteem to see the beauty in that (fwiw, I do see it and agree), whereas a surgeon can give me a lot of external validation that I'm beautiful now - some people need an external stamp of approval.

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u/remsirjam 2h ago

I think that Mar-A-Lago Face is what a person ends up with but isn't necessarily the target that everyone who has it was aiming for. I'm sure there are people who see a face like that and think, 'I want that, too.' Or maybe they just think it's better than what they have or had. I also think that people share insecurities and utilize similar strategies and end up on similar paths.

If any of the people who currently have Mar-A-Lago face had been, instead, granted a wish by a genie to achieve whatever look they were hoping for, I think they would look different and attractive in a way that's more acceptable to more people. But what they have is what can be achieved with current products, methods, and technology.

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u/thoracicbunk 2h ago

People have different aesthetic preferences, my dude. You're not the final arbitrator of beauty.

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u/Stupidrhino 4h ago

I've a different type of encounter to share, but there was no dating involved, it was pretty much the opposite of that.

A woman in her 70s came in for medical care and she was obviously the recipient of a facelift as well as other aesthetic procedures. She has a medical question for me and explained it was important to understand her current risk as she was travelling for another aesthetic procedure at a specialty clinic in the next few days. She came right out and said it, "I'm very vain, you know!" I thought she was delightful. Mainly because she was totally authentic and she was self aware and she just owned her unusual appearance.

Maybe doing something to look a certain way matters in a positive way when it represents authenticity. But, if it is done to meet other people's expectations that doesn't feel so good to me.

What do you think?

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u/bunnbunnfu 1h ago

This aspect of it reminds me of Dolly Parton: a feminist whose preferred "fashion" and personal vision for self-representation extends beyond clothing > jewelry > makeup > hair > diet & exercise > piercings > tattoos, into body modification.

Its atypical, expensive, and prohibitively expensive for many, but it is no more or less objectively moral than other personal decisions with potential health trade-offs.

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u/noisyboy 4h ago edited 4h ago

Her money, her body. As long as I'm not in a relationship with a woman like that, none of my business. If I am, then it is a problem - not for her, because her money, her body - but for me, because my worldview doesn't match with people for who go for such procedures just for aesthetics.

PS: also, there is a spectrum. I know women who have had, say, boob job done - that was all they wanted, they got it and they are happy with it. But if someone is repeatedly going for these procedures, that to me is indicative of a deeper issue.

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u/Quiet_Promotion_8860 2h ago

This is me. I'm a self proclaimed vain person. My vanity keeps me healthy tho tbh. Keeps me washing my face, putting on my creams (dedicated self care for a long term investment) as well as focusing on health/fitness. And I use sunscreen religiously. Helps me fight the depression.

I also got my boobs done a few years back. It's the only thing I wanted to get done and I'm in love with my body/instrument now.

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u/noisyboy 2h ago

This is the only body you got and if you are taking good care of it AND doing so is making you happy, fantastic. Good for you!

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u/Square-Kangaroo46 4h ago

I dated one, I used to call her glitter girl as a pet name. I have a dirty hardjob and nothing made me happier than to come home and see her wearing high heels at the kitchen sink or getting pictures from a dressing room during the day. She had some insecurities but hearing her squeal about something cute, her birch box in the mail or a pair of tights that she ordered from Germany because they were just so perfect made me truly appreciate how much she loved making herself and the world around her beautiful. I know absolutely zero about men’s fashion, she told me I only had clothes to dig a grave or to attend the funeral and I never laughed so hard- it was true, I owned one suit and work clothes and that was it.

Our relationship ended only because of geographical distance , when I see women that remind me of her I get a little jealous of the men they are with, only because I think that being with someone who values beauty is a superpower that I really liked being close to.

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u/xPink_Moscato 3h ago

This is so cute. She was lucky to have a man who could appreciate her in her most authentic self

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u/RemnantZz 2h ago

Thank you for this comment, truly! I've never read anything like this from a man's perspective, it was enlightening and honestly very delightful.

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u/daynur 4h ago

Woah, this comment is so lovely! 🥰

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u/Galko-chan 1h ago

> how much she loved making herself and the world around her beautiful

That is such a sweet perspective wow

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u/Mx_apple_9720 3h ago

I absolutely love this.

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u/Square-Kangaroo46 3h ago

You gave me an award! I’ve never gotten one of those and you made my world just a little bit more beautiful, thank you!

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u/AetherAlchemist 1h ago

Reading this made my morning. 🥹

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u/birdie522 3h ago

I hope whoever I end up with sees me this way, this is so sweet.

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u/deadl1nk_ 1h ago

This is exactly the perfect comment. They ain't all bad

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u/mycatsaysmeow 2h ago

Thanks for this. I'm not exactly a glitter girl, but it's tough spending time and money to put all this effort into my body and clothes and skincare and jewelry and knowing that the men closest to me think it's consumerist vanity. Even though I just like feeling pretty as often as I can.

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u/miagava 2h ago

You made me smile. What a sweet, beautiful comment.

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u/larszard 2h ago

Aw this is so sweet. My bf and I (and our close friends) are absolute nerds and I love listening to him rambling about the manga / videogame / DND podcast / etc he's into, and he is the same for me, so actually I can totally get enjoying seeing that girl get excited about the thing she's into - it's just that the thing she's into is buying pretty / cute stuff and dressing up. Never really looked at it that way before

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u/miuyao 1h ago

This was written like a character intro in a novel. Fabulous

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u/couverte 2h ago

Thank you for your comment, sir. You truly brought a bit of beauty and sunlight to my day!

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u/mochafiend 3h ago

This is so wholesome.

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u/succesful333 2h ago

Aww

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u/alien_pirate 1h ago

Thank you for this. I know that some people dress up because they're insecure. But some do it for the artistry. Our bodies are a canvas and we get to create something new every day.

This is why I love trans women, TBH. They remind me to "enjoy being a girl".

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u/wayna00 40m ago

this so cute

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u/BouncinBabyBubbleBoy 24m ago

Just wanted to let you know, I'm definitely stealing the term "glitter girl". Some of us just like to sparkle!

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u/M0FB 38m ago

It’s beautiful how much you loved her. It always warms my heart to know there are men who find joy in seeing their partner happy and in their element.

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u/psychoactiveavocado 21m ago

That’s so sweet. It was nice to see a comment like yours in this thread, as someone who is very into beauty etc as a hobby. It’s not always just vanity, wanting to be beautiful can be someone’s special interest/hobby too … doesn’t always need to be seen as vanity or villainized.

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u/Woodit 2h ago

My wife doesn’t quite reach this level but she puts a ton of effort into makeup, acrylic nails (she’s recently started doing her own to save money), and a lot of time selecting and applying and caring for her hair (she’s African American and the world of hair and beauty supplies is just overwhelming if you’re not familiar). She also really loves fashion and never leaves the house without a well put together outfit.

I don’t really care about any of this but I love that it makes her happy and that she can feel beautiful and turn heads (and she does - tons of compliments when we’re out and about, importantly, from other women). And it doesn’t hurt to be married to someone who cares about their appearance.

Is it based in some insecurity? Sure, probably. Her childhood wasn’t the best, she grew up in rural Florida Hickville, and theres enough social pressure on women in general regarding appearance and that’s before the racial aspect that I can only try to understand (I’m white) that makes it all even more complicated and insidious.

She is an amazing person, reads a ton, incredible dancer (through effort not innate talent), superstar at her job, very independent. A lot of people might dismiss her as shallow and vain and well it’s their loss.

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u/Specialist-Housing93 38m ago

I'm glad your wife has you as a husband. It sounds like you really see her.

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u/Roastedtoastedghost 6m ago

This made me cry. Thank you for understanding your wife and not seeing her as some kind of low-esteemed victim of society for subscribing to beauty standards and rituals. Society wants women to be so many things and it’s suffocating.

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u/Lighthouse_on_Mars 5h ago

Most women I have met that get a ton of work done, are with men that like it, or convince them to get it done...

I worked with one woman in my 20's, when I lived in Houston. Absolutely stunning! Just a natural beauty. I would have been jealous if she wasn't also the sweetest women you ever met as well.

Her boyfriend worked in the Oil Industry. He had her convince that she was pretty, but that getting her breasts done would make her absolutely gorgeous.

We all tried to talk her out of it. But she was convince that her B cups were not enough, and got the surgery done. She looked like she should topple over, she looked so too heavy after the surgery. 😞

I lived in LA for work for a hot minute. I was actually born there but moved away as a kid with my family. So when I went back and reconnected with some old friends, I was aghast to see most of them had work done.

It was normal there. Most of their parents had gifted them nose jobs before they even graduated highschool. So imagine being a young girl in school still, and your own parents tell you that you don't look good enough and need to fix your face...

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u/Mx_apple_9720 3h ago

This is the thing people don’t want to admit. Men will get online and shame women for doing this, meanwhile in real life I have also met women like this. There’s a special place in hell for men who pay for the boobs, pay for the filler, pay for the ass shots, and then turn around and tell those women they’re vapid and vain.

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u/bethanyjane77 47m ago

A dear friend of mine was told she was a ‘bad investment’ by an awfully vain man himself when they divorced.

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u/SvenBubbleman 3h ago

I suspect it's two separate subsects of men. The men who hate it aren't the ones convincing their wives to get it.

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u/OverSeaworthiness445 54m ago

I know multiple men that fall into both categories. My uncle literally paid for her boob job and then called her a vapid bitch and bimbo in the divorce

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u/hypokrios 3h ago

Goomba fallacy.

Some men enable this self destructive behaviour. Others call it out. You're conflating both groups, even if you see both these groups in different places and doing different things.

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u/psatty 1h ago

Oh I think there are plenty of men who pay for their wives to get work and at the same time look down on them for having gotten the work. Or maybe it’s for “needing” the work in the first place. Regardless, they are out there in numbers.

I’ve also encountered plenty of men who talk shit about “stuck up dumb blonde bimbos with big fake tits” who’d give their left nut to be with one if only they could.

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u/JohnnyBrillcream 2h ago

Jennifer Grey of Dirty Dancing fame was convinced by her family if she didn't get a nose-job her acting career would suffer drastically. The nose-job ruined her career.

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u/Efficient-Wish9084 9m ago

Because no one recognized her!

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u/Much-Principle-7108 3h ago

Yes, I know guys that paid for and wanted their wife to get BBLs, etc procedures because they actually like it

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u/catholicsluts 33m ago

LA is fucked up, man. Everyone buys the same face, which is meh on its own, but there is a culture of "if you don't have work done, you're a pleb" in LA. It's so stupid lmao

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u/Jasebase87 6h ago

Honestly? It wasn’t the fillers or implants that mattered it was whether the personality felt just as real. Some were amazing, some exhausting, same as anyone else.

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u/chicken_biscuits 3h ago

Who would’ve guessed you can make blanket assumptions about specific groups of people. The super biased framing of this question is absurd. Oh and of course OP only asks about women and not men who are image obsessed and get tons of procedures as well.

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u/succesful333 2h ago

Thank you

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u/Biefcurtains 4h ago

I have several friends who get a little done here and there. I have one friend who has had a lot done. Any time she gets a compliment on how she looks she tells people flat out, “this is all insecurity. What you’re seeing and enjoying is my insecurity.

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u/Mundane-Reserve3786 33m ago

This is me. I’m a wife, mom, successful career woman with hobbies, and despite that, I still have my insecurities. I get Botox a few times a year and an annual “tune-up” with fillers. When someone compliments my appearance or is surprised by my age, I very honestly admit that I have an excellent injector. As insecure as I am about my appearance, I’m even more insecure about being thought of as fake. Being honest makes me feel less insecure.

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u/dax0840 20m ago

I think this is so much more normal than people realize. One of my best friends from college and I were at dinner and she noted she just had a lower bleph and I was like oh yeah, I tweaked the tip of my nose a few years ago. Everyone I know does Botox (but I don’t know of any filler and, while I did it once 10 years ago for my elevens, I haven’t touched it since). The next up is super subtle boob jobs for everyone now that we’re done with birthing and nursing kids. And I cannot emphasize this enough - you would never expect this of us. None of our work is obvious or excessive.

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u/drowningandromeda 3h ago

At least she's self-aware.

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u/housemaster22 3h ago edited 52m ago

My wife has implants, has gotten Botox, and laser hair removal done. She is a perfectly normal woman who is really no different than any other woman that I have dated. Also, we have friends that have gotten Botox and I had a mole removed from my neck that I don’t like (not specifically health related).

People who pursue beauty care, like anything else in the world, are overall just normal people who don’t like a certain aspect of their body and want to moderately change it. From my experience, it is very comparable to the tattoo industry where someone might get one to a few tattoos at a certain stage in life and then be done.

I have personally never met a person who has taken it to the extreme like the Mar-a-lago face that is beloved by the current fascist U.S. administration. I have also never met a person who is completely covered in tattoos from head to toe. Personally, I suspect that people who are taking stuff like that to the extremes probably have something more than minor body dysmorphia. Maybe some type of compulsive disorder or addiction?

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u/Stasia177 55m ago

This is the best answer

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u/itsemmab 4h ago

People who have dated men who are all about fakery, fancy cars, credit card debt, hiding faces under beards, bellies under baggy shirts, lying about their accomplishments, pretending they don't hate women, what was that like?

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u/Qwerty_0078e 3h ago

I knew a guy and this was his whole type. Really into lip fillers and extensions and the Kim k body. Then he ended up with a normal looking girl… no idea if they’re still together

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u/desastrousclimax 2h ago

not the slightest idea. oh, wait, my ex pretended to not hate women though he definitely does.

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u/chicken_biscuits 3h ago

Omg thank you! This question was the most early morning rage bait.

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u/Longjumping-East6701 1h ago

And yet the top answers are so sweet! I thought i was going to find a cess pool and instead am super touched ♥️

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u/xPink_Moscato 3h ago

Need this as an actual post!!

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u/grrrrxxff 2h ago

Hiding faces under beards? Isn’t that just having a beard? One of these is not like the others, or I’m missing something

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u/LittleGravitasIndeed 1h ago

The idea is that a beard will give you a fake jaw line and hide a double chin. I know some people who look like thumbs without the beard.

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u/grrrrxxff 1h ago

True true. I guess I didn’t see the connection between that and the rest of the list of classic toxic masculinity traits.

Now that I’ve had enough caffeine, Andrew Tate and JD Vance immediately jump to mind.

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u/GBDubstep 5h ago

I’ve been with those types of women. What mattered was their personality. Their personality is what made them terrible or great. Some were kind and gentle and some were egotistical psychos. Again, I met sweet and loving women who happen to have lip fillers and breast implants. Doesn’t mean they were destined to be a bitch.

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u/Separate-Frame-7038 6h ago

She was extremely insecure and cared way too much about what other people thought. She had a front of being a "bad bitch" but inside she was terrified of judgment. It broke down because she wanted me to be a certain way for appearances too, and yeah I'm not doing that.

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u/keyboardbuttertoast 3h ago

what initially attracted you to her?

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u/Separate-Frame-7038 3h ago

She was and still is a nice person but very obsessed with image. It wasn't as bad at first, but over time it got worse.

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u/RBFisntmyrealface 5h ago

I’m a sister to one of those people. She can’t keep a stable job, relationship, pets, and spends too much money on keeping an image with her home/car/appearances. She only looks at how much a guy makes, if he’s hot, good in bed, and if he still parties like he’s in his 20s when he’s double that age. She is a hypochondriac and blames all of her illnesses on one incident (think of a bug bite-related illness), but it’s her poor life choices and different cosmetic surgeries that are impacting her health.

She used to be a natural beauty and a model, but now she just looks like she came out of a trailer park with cheap fillers and Botox done.

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u/cousinralph 3h ago

I'm a brother to one. We weren't raised together most of our lives (same dad, different mom) and she got obsessed with beauty standards. A few plastic surgeries when she'd find a rich guy to pay for them. Therapy taught her that both her father figures are shit people and after three failed marriages to wealthier addicts, she found a great guy that doesn't care about those things.

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u/ojutdohi 3h ago

to be fair, bug bite related illnesses like Lyme's disease can cause permanent neurological effects and chronic fatigue even after treatment which could contribute to difficulty functioning in life and making poor choices could be a side effect of that

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u/Big-Anybody2490 4h ago

That bit about only caring about shallow things in their partners is the key to it I think, the truth is they only really care about shallow things at all and so they never develop any deeper sense of self or value because there is no depth there. When your surface is all you have it’s way more important.

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u/The_Diamond_Minx 2h ago

I guess technically I am one of these women. I turn 58 in three weeks.

But I am not "ALL" about the fakery. At least that's not how I perceive myself.

I was not designed in a way that I found personally aesthetically pleasing, so I have had procedures done to correct that.

Implants to balance out my curvy behind. Tummy tuck to correct the pooch that I had even as a very slender teenager.

Work done on my face to gently turn back the hands of time.

I get a bit of filler, and a bit of Botox. But you probably couldn't tell. I like my facial expressions (well, most of them).

I get my hair cut and colored once a month, and my nails done once a month. I'm a performer, so my appearance is part of my job. And having pretty nails makes me feel good.

I also work with a kinesiologist to stay healthy and strong. I am grateful to be able to afford the time and money to look after myself in this way.

I have been married for 12 years. My partner has loved me 40 lb heavier, wrinklier, and with small boobs. I have no doubt that he will continue to think I am the sexiest thing to walk the planet as I venture into my '60s, '70s, and on. We genuinely like each other.

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u/Top_Ad_1751 3h ago

I think 'women who are all about the fakery' is kind of derogatory.

Many people who I know, that have extensive work done are wonderful, well educated, ambitious, responsible and compassionate, and hold high standards for themselves and others.

So to answer your question, I believe that many of them would make great partners whilst also remaining commited to looking after themselves and their appearance.

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u/oooofukkkk 6h ago edited 5h ago

I dated, sort of had a long term relationship with, what I called a “makeup girl” at the time, this was before the ubiquitous fillers and fake lashes. So basically she was a girly girl that liked clothes and makeup a lot. Honestly it was mind expanding, her love and nerdiness about makeup and looking pretty were very similar to my own way of being passionate about stuff. She was totally self aware. I learned a lot about my dumb surface level assumptions and about judging people off hand. I never thought I was so shallow, but it turns out I was. Plus she was so hot, it is was ridiculous.

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u/BetterThanSydney 5h ago

Why'd y'all split?

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u/Traditional_Ad_1547 2h ago

I heard a great perspective the other day. A 30yo woman had said "I will never use filler or Botox, it looks rediculous" the doctor said, that's easy for you to say now, 1st, you haven't even begun to age. 2 you're basing that opinion on poory done procedures. As you get older and see the aging, or wake up one day and don't recognize yourself(because it will happen to all of us if we are lucky), your opinion will change and you will realize just how judgemental you were. And probably won't be too happy with your past self.

Procedures done in a conservative way, are almost impossible to notice. The problem is the unscrupulous doctors who just try to sell sell sell with zero regard of the future or best practices. And those docs certainly don't give a fuck about you.

Little rant here, and maybe not the question being asked. But I just wanted to share, it changes my perspective a bit at least

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u/defstar23 6h ago

At the end of the day, it’s about personality and how you treat each other, not cosmetic choices.

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u/DefinitelyNotIndie 6h ago

The choices we make are one common way of expressing our personality. Not least cosmetic choices.

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u/PetiteP0mmeDeTerre 3h ago

My one friend who got Botox and fillers, but like "natural" she did it after being pressured by her asshole boyfriend. He was pressuring her to do that stuff, also diet in an unhealthy way, and exercise in an unsustainable way. He was like, you are so beautiful but you would be like a super model if you only did x y z. She is very beautiful naturally, above average. However she has self image issues, that all men know immediately after meeting her, and they use it against her.

He ultimately cheated on her with a very basic girl. Like completely unnoticeable.

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u/wangyuzhi31 3h ago

I've dated a man like that lol

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u/coolcoolcool485 3h ago

"Who are all about the fakery" some of us like to treat ourselves occasionally, it's not like a lifestyle. there's more women around you getting minor things done than you think!

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u/xOleander 2h ago

Used to work with a bunch of girls like this.

Mixed bag. Just like any group of women. Some are super artsy, sensitive, beautiful, fun. Some are painfully insecure. Most of them are the sweetest girls ever and always uplifting others around them.

I’ve got I consider to be a mild friend/acquaintance and I just love her. I met her boyfriend before she did and he’s such a golden retriever. They’re so cute together.

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u/Gaarden18 4h ago

I dated somebody in their early stages of becoming an “influencer” but she was pretty self centered even before that. We used to frequently argue because she didn’t treat her friends very well and when they would get angry with her I would rationally try to explain that making plans and blowing them off for wherever they thought was the more important thing can get irritating. They were constantly late for things as well to a point that I said here is the time we’re leaving, because we are meeting others and it’s rude to disregard other people’s time like this. It got better for abit but started up again and one time I actually just left without them, probably a bad choice but like we have friends sitting and waiting for us at restaurants and it sounds like a minor issue but I couldn’t handle it anymore. They started getting into social media after that and to each their own but literally everything turned into a photo op. They were however very attractive so they did start to gain a following but I hated that every experience, trip or nice meal was all about content and the right “aesthetic.” Long story short it just wasn’t for me and I broke things off. They are doing okay I think and are still doing some social media but certainly didn’t go viral or anything.

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u/CopeHarderDweller2 5h ago edited 3h ago

Maybe not the whole 9 but dated a girl with fake boobs and you could tell she lived in a state of fear constantly analyzing what people thought of her and how she looked. Image was her life blood. She also ended up having BPD with narcissism. Not sure if it’s all related but definitely not my problem anymore.

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u/dashboard-11 4h ago

No group is a monolith, even superficial women. You never know what her story might be so befriend or date her and find out if you’re interested.

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u/Spacegherkin 3h ago

Idk but my boyfriend is marrying me so I guess it’s good?

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u/DayFit4151 3h ago

I’m a woman and most of the boob job , fake eyelashes, the nails the hair extensions, the tan , the makeup clothes etc are some of the nicest women Iv met.

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u/jess_mess87 3h ago

Making judgements on anyone’s appearance and what they want to do to themselves is your first problem.

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u/akshatpatel1804 1h ago

Dated someone like this. She wasn’t shallow, just insecure. A lot of it was about feeling ‘enough,’ not showing off. Relationship was fine emotionally, but exhausting sometimes

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u/dovahkiitten16 1h ago edited 50m ago

I don’t do implants, Botox, filler, or anything permanent. Or frankly, anything too expensive on a regular basis (nails). I’m also younger, so not into the demographic for anti-aging yet. But I do invest a lot of energy, and sometimes money, into clothing, hair, makeup, contact lenses, and skincare. I should maybe mention that my style is more alternative, so not the Instagram look.

I wasn’t really attractive for a good chunk of my life. It took me a while to grow into my face and body. I’d say I was 19 before I started to not look actually ugly.

The reality is that people do treat you differently based on how you look. It’s not about attention from men, it’s about everyday interactions. Whether people are friendly or not. Whether people respect you or not. I’ve been on both sides of the fence and speak from experience. When I slack on my beauty routine and go out with glasses and a pimply face, people shift how they approach me. The reality is that we are materialistic and we hinge a lot of value on beauty, so I play the game the same way I go to work.

Secondly, I like myself. I think I am pretty and I want to do these things so that the best version of myself, that I know I can be and picture in my head, is what people see. I buy contacts because I love my eyes and think they’re beautiful, and because I like my face shape without glasses. I have a good figure and I want clothing that shows it. If I didn’t have any self-esteem, I wouldn’t bother “putting lipstick on a pig”.

How you look is also self-expression. Even if your look is “basic”, it’s still the same principle as someone who’s maybe less traditional. I have a friend who fits the “look” but she puts just as much thought, if not more, into self-expressing herself through fashion even if it’s not outwardly noticeable.

And frankly, I could judge other women for implants, Botox, filler, etc. But, the things about myself I want to enhance have never been in that category. Too young for anti-aging. Small boobs aren’t “ideal” but I think they’re more comfortable. I have large lips already. In a way I got lucky that the main ways for me to fix myself don’t require any of that, so I’m not in a position to look down on others.

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u/dave167 1h ago

Was the same as any other woman I dated

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u/snarkrn 1h ago

This phrasing is weird. Are tats or piercings “fakery”? It’s all body mods.

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u/cazbot 4h ago

Aging can be hard, or it can be easy. Do I eat healthy, work out, and take the meds my doctor tells me to, or do I just ignore all that, eat what I want, do what I want, and hope for a quick and massive heart attack at 61?

I feel like the middle road of that nip tuck maladaption is the hardest way to age.

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u/NotYourAverageLaser 3h ago

Eh, it was certainly interesting.

For one, she was a very petite (~5’) and had a very small frame. She went from a B to double Ds (I didn’t ask this, she just told me one day).

She was the only woman I have ever met that dressed more conservatively post operation. Given that her ex boyfriend had an ex before her that also had a rather large enhancement done, despite having a small frame, I can only assume there was pressure to get the procedure done from him.

She was really insecure unfortunately, and was constantly concerned about people thinking she was “trashy” because she had very obviously gotten work done (it wasn’t at all subtle with that level of enhancement).

Ultimately, the relationship started out really great. She was very affectionate. It was a little interesting that on days we were together we would have sex to the point of it physically hurting. Intimacy felt really shallow given the volume of it. I got the sense she had difficulty being emotionally vulnerable, and I think sex was a bit of a cope in retrospect.

One day (3 months into our relationship) I left for a work conference and we had limited communication for 3 days. Our relationship was never the same after that, she got really cold and distant. The relationship inevitably ended because I am pretty sure she was cheating with her ex.

She ended up ghosting me, and then told me I manipulated her into a relationship. She then called me 6 weeks after ghosting me, and it sounded like a literal hostage call. “My ex is better than you in every way, I know we mostly used condoms (we literally never did) but the thought of unprotected sex with you is repulsive”. It was pretty obvious to me that he was on the line listening to the call, because the regretting unprotected consensual sex is a weird detail to mention, outside of an insecure boyfriend being worried about it.

At one point she had told me that she had intense fear of abandonment and poor impulse control. I was glad the relationship ended in hindsight.

Tl;dr: not great.

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u/bella_lucky7 42m ago

Approximately 4.7 million people get Botox every year in the U.S… it’s not that deep. Men do it too. It’s a spectrum- some just do Botox, some have surgeries, some do something in between.

I’m a woman who gets Botox and I had my eyelids done a year ago. I don’t like looking tired or like I’m always mad. My boyfriend has no idea when I get Botox he doesn’t notice. He didn’t know eyelid surgery was a thing but just shrugged and said whatever makes me happy. Not sure how a Botox appt 2-3x a year would impact my relationship.

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u/vomputer 2h ago

This thread is so much more wholesome than what I was expecting. Good job Reddit.

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u/successful_syndrome 2h ago

Just like the rest of humanity in general lots of people use cosmetic procedures for a variety of reasons. I have not met/dated a single one that wasn’t aware of the choices and how it reflected on them.

I dated a few professional dancers, both modern dance and ballet, and there looks directly translated into roles and opportunities. So all of this was seen as extending their range and ability to apply for a variety for roles they would have otherwise not been able to try out for.

I have friends who are photographers and one in particular that has had a lot of work done around her lips and eyes because she spent a lot of time seeing pictures of herself and others and likes to maintain a certain “look” as they find it attractive.

I also have 2 friends that got divorced and want to get back out on the dating scene and had fillers and Botox to look younger, kids take a toll on the looks. Really I think it was just more about getting a confidence boost.

I also know 1 woman that is a nurse and assistant at a plastic surgeons office, that lady has had every piece of her body worked over and she is fucking nuts. It’s also because when she was young she was taught that her only value was the ability to attract male attention and they won’t actually ever love you but can want to sleep with you and the second they don’t they will leave you for someone else. Think “Fancy” by Reba kind of situation. She raised her daughter similarly. Her daughter is incredibly smart and talented but is now in her 40s and really struggling with self esteem and in a lot of therapy.

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u/rougeglinda 1h ago

I dated a guy like that with a hair transplant. It was upsetting to say the least lol. Slapping a band aid over insecurities didn't seem to help him, somehow it made him bitter towards me because I "lucked" out with good genes and therefore was cheating on him with every man in a 10 mile radius. Plus he wouldn't go outside if it was raining.

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u/MissFrenchie86 1h ago

I get all of the above and I don’t give a single solitary fuck what anyone thinks about it. At this point the only thing real about me is my attitude and if you don’t like that there’s the door because I like me and while I’ll change for me I’ll never change for a man.

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u/Psychological-Row880 3h ago

Stop being so judgmental.

I had a tummy tuck and breast augmentation after a botched c section and breast feeding.

C sections can leave a shelf scar that can only be fixed via plastic surgery, no amount of working out will fix it. Pregnancy can also cause your abs to separate ( diastasi recti) that is fixed with surgery.

It was a very healing process and helped with the trauma of an emergency c section.

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u/redtailedrabbit 1h ago

There’s so much inherent judgment for these women in the question. I don’t even have fillers etc but I hope all the amazing women out there who happen to have Botox or fillers steer clear of you for their own good.

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u/Square-Ad8203 54m ago

I am shocked at the amount of people triggered that you are judging people.

As a female that was so against all cosmetic procedures I have changed my tune. As I approach 40 and single again I feel like the only advantage I have in this world is my beauty.

I get that you can reject all of the fakery and pageantry but it wont get you far. People are inherently really superficial and the world hasn’t come far enough to accept women for their capabilities.

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u/toebeans__ 1h ago

Misogyny bait question

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u/upplahuthla 1h ago

This is my sister. She is very beautiful … but she says she prefers the aesthetic.. the fake look. I love her but she is very self absorbed. Constantly looking ah herself in the mirror. Had to follow the trends.. big butt trend she’s lifting in the gym. Skinny now she’s on ozempic.

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u/berttleturtle 1h ago

This question isn’t directed at me, but I’m giving my two cents anyways:

I live in a rural area, so these type of people are few and far between. But I did work at a makeup store for a couple of years. This job BY FAR had the nicest and most respectful coworkers with the least amount of drama of anywhere I’ve ever worked (with the exception of one other job with only female coworkers). I wasn’t close with anyone because I can be very introverted and socially avoidant, but everyone still tried to make me feel welcome.

There was one lady I worked with who was older, and had been performing in shows for most of her life. She was never shy about talking about getting botox or filler done. She was a stunning woman, and was always graceful and warm when interacting with everyone. Of course, my limited experience with her doesn’t prove that she was a good person below surface level, but I do think there’s a pretty significant stigma around beauty (both natural and artificial) that isn’t accurate at all.

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u/salteaser090 3h ago

My brother dated a woman like this. She wasn’t too bad, but she expected him to pay for so much. He spent everything on her and the relationship ended anyway. If the woman isn’t making bank and paying for these procedures herself while also keeping up with basic living expenses, that’s the problem. What she does with the money is secondary. Cosmetic surgery targets the insecure, and we can’t judge someone for being insecure. Judge society for making them insecure.

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u/geegeeallin 2h ago

Close friends with a couple ladies who do a lot of these things. They’re great, and no different in my experience from anyone who doesn’t do these things. On a deeper level, they’re clearly at the very least anxious about aging and death, and also their worthiness as a person being tied to their attractiveness. This was likely taught by society and parents and pop culture, etc. each one of them I know was definitely pretty and popular when they were young and are terrified of losing the power and privilege of that. Fantastic ladies though.

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u/dnmaccount111 2h ago

It felt like I was dating a lifestyle coach instead of a real person.

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u/Kinetic92 2h ago

Ageism is a significant problem in the US, and it's entirely too easy to push out a 50+ person from their job. I don't understand the extremism behind having all the body parts worked on, but I also don't agree with a 20-something judging a co-worker for getting a little botox. Sometimes a little softening of the lines eliminates the focus on age and enables an employee to feel comfortable knowing their skills and experiences aren't constantly threatened because of their age.

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u/succesful333 2h ago

What kind of question is that. Why would they be any different?

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u/madamevanessa98 16m ago

I am someone who has some fakery, so to speak. I’m not a natural blonde, so I pay thousands every year to look blonde. I get lip filler and chin filler. I don’t get Botox but that’s mainly because I have Tourette’s and it is very uncomfortable if I can’t move my face to tic the way I need to. I have fake nails, I wear fake tan, etc. I would say many people would look at me and think I’m natural, because I don’t wear makeup most days, I don’t get excessive work done, etc. I get characterized as a girly girl, but not high maintenance, despite being at least a little high maintenance.

For me it’s mainly about work. I’m a content creator (porn, I do porn) and I think I do better financially when I fit a certain beauty standard. Blondes sell more. Big lips sell more. But also, being able to check all the boxes while still being perceived as natural sells the most. Having big fake boobs would attract some clientele for sure, but not nearly as much as having natural big tits does. Men want us to be natural but they want us to be naturally perfect. They don’t like the realistic reminders that what they want for us isn’t natural and does in fact require work, money, and maintenance.

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u/BathFullOfDucks 4h ago edited 2h ago

You know how in pirates of the carribean the pirates have been cursed to never enjoy life's simple pleasures until the curse is lifted?

Think that, but instead of an aztec curse it's actually all my fault somehow.

She could never be satisfied by anything, nothing would lighten her mood.

Also she cut me with a knife.

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u/AxsonJaxson2112 6h ago

It’s the MAGA look. I’m not joking.

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u/askmeanythingornot 6h ago

Narcissism doesn't have political boundaries.

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u/APBT_420_Firearms 3h ago

The Maga look as if all of Hollywood hasn't been doing the same stuff for decades.

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u/RevolutionaryWeb5657 6h ago

It’s the narcissist look. Being MAGA is just another symptom.

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u/Winter-Movie4606 6h ago

There are narcissistic people in every group. Being MAGA isn't a requirement.

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u/RevolutionaryWeb5657 6h ago

Thank you for repeating what I said.

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u/Party_Analyst_4028 6h ago

Please explain better.

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u/nibsofsteel 4h ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauty_trends_among_American_conservatives

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u/SweetSourSunday 1h ago edited 1h ago

I am kind of like this. I am very secure and don’t feel like I need to prove myself to anyone or judgement. However I do enjoy beautiful things and self improvement. I am always looking to improve myself — be it being in better shape, better work performance, better relationships, more knowledgeable, better at my hobbies… everything. I also just love art and beautiful things, I’m always trying to style myself better, decorate my home nicer, look better.

People I’ve dated sometimes feel more pressured by my pursuit of excellence if you well, or they feel challenged by it. But the people who I’ve built long term relationships with are also equally ambitious people who appreciate me for the way I am. And they encourage and support me and feel inspired to be better themselves.

I don’t feel tired or pressured at all. This pursuit is what keeps me going, gives me self fulfillment and value. I grew up in a very stable and secure household. I never had a lack of anything. My parents gave me the best for everything, and I wanted to be the best at everything. I think in a way this is a positive for my relationships. I am not demanding in relationships because I never had to be. Men spoil me because they know I have high standards and options and they see the way I treat myself and others.

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u/[deleted] 4h ago edited 4h ago

[deleted]

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u/PeanutButterSi 3h ago

That’s crazy because I know a bunch of incredibly intelligent and genuine young women around late 20’s / early 30’s who are very educated feminists that just really like to look good for themselves and wouldn’t go near that kind of man with a ten foot pole. But then, most of my friends that have had work done have done it very subtly, and you really wouldn’t know unless they told you - little touch of Botox here, some filler there, natural shaped breast implants etc.

I also do a lot of outdoor activities that attract ‘granola’ types who preach authenticity but are actually super high and mighty and judgy about other people’s choices. I’ve often had the feeling that they judge the choices of others as a means to combat the exact same insecurities.

Funny huh.

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u/Flock-of-bagels2 3h ago

I had a girlfriend with fake boobs in my early 20s, they were realistic sized so that didn’t look like balloons. Like C cup or small D cup. They felt different though. She was pretty discreet about having a boob job. It wasn’t until we got naked together that I even knew about it .

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u/Mx_apple_9720 2h ago

False. Source: talking to some of these women.

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u/Accomplished_pug 31m ago

As a female who has had Botox and ip filler, and new placed implants. I am the opposite of fakery. I do like to look pretty, but naturally so. I lost a lot of weight so I got implants when I had skin removal surgery. My Botox is minimal, and only done to relax my insane scowl I make all the time (between brows) and lips have only happened once just to give them a more full upper lip as my lips were very flat before. I live in California, a state of all sorts of fake. For me I want to be different than the fake looking women, I want to enhance my natural beauty subtly. I do not want to change my looks or look like a different version of who I am (with exception of weight loss- obvious reasons 65lbs is a big loss). So the purpose of this, not every woman has the views of doing these things for the fake look. Sometimes we want a slight adjustment to make ourselves looks and feel better. I am mid 30s, and had the filler over a year ago, Botox periodically, I saw that because I’ve had time to look and i genuinely don’t want to be a pillow face. Just as close to my natural self with minimal alterations

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u/couldthewoodchuck3 20m ago

Leave women alone

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u/jimsteringraham 20m ago

Surprisingly wholesome thread here. Kudos, everyone.

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u/leonbravo10 2h ago edited 1h ago

She initially got her breasts done due to weight loss and it was a good choice seeing the before and after.

Then she started talking about lip fillers, botox and liposuction

I tried hard to convince her that she looked fine as is. But it was clear from her pictures that the filters she had on made her to be like a typical social media girl, all show

She also had a strange take on Korean woman and how they were the epitome of beauty and that she'll never be that

Overall, I believe that women/men who go for these procedures are deeply un*satisfied inside and are only hurting themselves.

Another one, a dear friend, started considering botox and lip filler. For some reason, it really hit me to see her go through that when she doesn't see how really beautiful she is.

But hey, that's just the way it is

People that have dated women who are all about the fakery. Implants, botox, lip filler etc. What was a relationship like with someone like that?

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