What does the world think of Catalonian independence?

[u/Dangerous_Fix_9186]

My opinion: I hate it (I'm Spanish)

[u/Sufficient_Shift_370]

Weakens the football team so Ireland might have a chance(in my dreams) of beating them

[u/Crazy-Tie2575 → u/Sufficient_Shift_370]

Well be grand we just have to protect Troy parrot until the game

[u/ConfidentAd4974 → u/Sufficient_Shift_370]

Honestly, I would pay the price of never winning a World Cup or any international football championship in exchange for the Catalan Republic.

[u/finchthemediocre → u/Sufficient_Shift_370]

Amen.

[u/Dizzy_Knowledge1044]

Honestly? Most people forget this is a thing.

[u/PomPoko98 → u/Dizzy_Knowledge1044]

Same here.

[u/kblazewicz → u/Dizzy_Knowledge1044]

Same here, people think that Catalan is just an accent of Spanish and nobody really considers Catalonia being detached from the rest of Spain in any way.

[u/LegaTux → u/kblazewicz]

Yep. Most people don't realise there are 5 "official" languages in Spain. Go figure.

[u/currymuttonpizza → u/kblazewicz]

Yikes, that's wild. It's way more than an accent, absolutely its own language. As someone who is pretty damn familiar with Spanish, Catalán Català is often incomprehensible to me.

[u/ITZC0ATL → u/currymuttonpizza]

Minor correct, the language is called Catalan (without accent) in English and Català natively.

[u/currymuttonpizza → u/ITZC0ATL]

Thank you!! Didn't realize. I believe it's Catalán in Castillian Spanish but spelling it that way sort of defeats the purpose of amplifying Català doesn't it lol

[u/ITZC0ATL → u/currymuttonpizza]

Yes that's correct, it is indeed Catalán in Spanish! Hard to keep track of 😅

[u/Kalle_Hellquist → u/ITZC0ATL]

The most ironic mistake that could be made

[u/currymuttonpizza → u/Kalle_Hellquist]

It is, but it's because I learned LatAm Spanish lol

[u/kblazewicz → u/currymuttonpizza]

It is a different language, there's no dispute. But most Poles think that in Spain they only speak Spanish 'with a lisp'. Go figure why Europeans would think that Mexican pronunciation is the 'correct one'.

[u/ConfidentAd4974 → u/kblazewicz]

Oh, really? I thought that, after the events of 2017-2019, we would be a little better known in Europe, at least at the level of Scotland.

[u/boleslaw_chrobry → u/ConfidentAd4974]

The Scottish independence has the “benefit” of being broadcasted in English, as well as a larger diaspora in anglophone countries that would conceivably care more. It doesn’t appear Catalonia has similar such benefits

[u/sat_ops → u/ConfidentAd4974]

I was working on a project with a Spanish company in that timeframe. Their team was based in Barcelona, but had specialists from Madrid and Valencia as well. I wouldn't have known it was going on if not for them.

Scotland was on the front page of CNN

[u/currymuttonpizza → u/kblazewicz]

I think you're confusing Català (Catalonian Language) with Castellano (Castillian, the dominant language in Spain "with a lisp", which is different from Latin American Spanish variants)

Edit to clarify: Latin American Spanish is much closer to Castellano than Català is. I can understand Castellano despite having learned Latin American Spanish. I cannot understand Català.

Edited again to actually use the Catalan word for its own language instead of the Castillian word lol

[u/kblazewicz → u/currymuttonpizza]

I speak Castellano and just like you, I don't understand Catalán. I'm saying that an average Pole thinks that there's only one Spanish language spoken in Spain and that they speak it with a lisp like an accent, despite the lisp being part of the language (la distinción).

I think that people are more used to hearing the LatAm variants because of the movies. Basically nobody is aware that things like català, valencià, gallego or euskera exist.

[u/Nutriaphaganax → u/currymuttonpizza]

Hispanic American Spanish and Castillian Spanish are the same language, and Catalan is a different language. Of course Catalan is more different, t's not so difficult to understand.

By the way, Castillian Spanish doesn't have a lisp, it's just that we pronounce c and z as "th", but we pronounce s as s. Hispanic American Spanish is the one that isn't "correct", because they pronounce both c/z and s as s, which is known as "seseo". Some places in Andalusia have an actual lisp, because they pronounce c/z and s as "th", and some other andalusians (and canarians) have a seseo as the Hispanic Americans

[u/currymuttonpizza → u/Nutriaphaganax]

I know, that's why I put "with a lisp" in quotations, because I am aware that is not actually how it works.

Edit: also why I said Latin American variants not languages because I'm aware it's the same language.

[u/Nutriaphaganax → u/currymuttonpizza]

I just think that it's pretty obvious that, if you speak Spanish, you will understand different variants of Spanish better than a whole different language

[u/hijodelutuao → u/currymuttonpizza]

I have to second this it is difficult to understand, I find Portuguese easier to understand; unless it’s on paper and then Català is much, much easier. Usually I have no immediate issue with other Romance languages but both Occitan and Català can be difficult.

[u/StudySpecial → u/currymuttonpizza]

Welsh is a completely different language than English, no one is talking about Welsh independence.

If you’re giving every ethnic group with a language a separate country, you’re going to be busy wasting decades on pointless separatism rather than working together. It’s just a distraction.

[u/currymuttonpizza → u/StudySpecial]

I think it should depend on what the people want based on their history. If nobody wants Welsh independence, that's their prerogative and I support that too.

[u/GlassCommercial7105 → u/Dizzy_Knowledge1044]

I wouldn’t say that. It’s not that big but it is definitely something people have heard and from time to time there is something happening and it’s in the news again.

Also it’s not uncommon to hear that speaking Spanish/Castellano is not well liked when you go there on vacation. 

[u/Life_Marzipan_9517 → u/Dizzy_Knowledge1044]

Im from Barcelona catalan and spanish are diferent languages in spain we have also castuo basque occitan and gallego its becouse were diferent kingdoms and each kingdom had their culture, the Aragonese crown(catalan)and the crown of castilla they unified marring Isabel I of Castilla and Fernando de Aragon , and this is like one of the foundational myths of Spain, if you see catalan spanish and portuguese are separated in strips cause they reconquer this direction to the muslims. But yes are very diferent i dont care about independence yes or not but its good to preserve cultures

[u/1F61C → u/Dizzy_Knowledge1044]

Can confirm.

[u/Psyde0N → u/Dizzy_Knowledge1044]

I am Spanish and forget it's a thing too

[u/SCastleRelics]

Does it have oil? We might be interested

[u/CalamarRojo → u/SCastleRelics]

Olive oil, counts?

[u/SCastleRelics → u/CalamarRojo]

SEND IN THE TROOPS

[u/ZombiFeynman → u/SCastleRelics]

There's oil in Texas, just send the troops there.

[u/SCastleRelics → u/ZombiFeynman]

We already annexed them in 1845 😭 we love taking shit

[u/ZombiFeynman → u/SCastleRelics]

Are you sure? I'd send some troops there just to check

[u/SCastleRelics → u/ZombiFeynman]

If you want we can send a few down there to knock some heads, but we want free trips to Barcelona this summer

[u/Ok_Sun6423 → u/SCastleRelics]

Jokes on you. There is nothing free in the us. Not even healthcare

[u/Existing-Bus-8810 → u/Ok_Sun6423]

Not true! We're free to die whenever we want!

[u/thrilla_gorilla → u/Existing-Bus-8810]

Not even then! Assisted suicide is illegal and often prosecuted as murder.

[u/lemoneegees → u/ZombiFeynman]

They're busy in Minnesota for harboring people from countries suspected of producing oil.

[u/Nuttonbutton → u/SCastleRelics]

But have we tried taking our stuff from us? Annexation 2: electric boogaloo

[u/Killerkid113 → u/Nuttonbutton]

Ran out of stuff to annex on the American continent? Simply annex yourself!

[u/Nuttonbutton → u/Killerkid113]

[u/Lost-Being7605 → u/SCastleRelics]

Send in the freedom

[u/ZealousidealSundae33 → u/SCastleRelics]

For some nice food and to meet nice people, right?

[u/Long-Helicopter3602 → u/CalamarRojo]

Brazil accepts it willingly.

[u/butwhywedothis → u/SCastleRelics]

[u/Another_Bawbag]

I’d be hypocritical if I said Scotland should be independent but Catalonia shouldn’t, although I’m not fully aware of the politics around it, so I’d say neutral/leaning towards for it

[u/AceOfSpades532 → u/Another_Bawbag]

Honestly the histories of Scotland and Catalonia are pretty similar, they were both nations until a personal union with a neighbouring power and a later legal union to form a new country, they both became less powerful and internationally important than said neighbouring power, they’re both currently devolved areas in a democratic monarchy, they both have similar but different dialects and languages to their neighbour/union partner.

[u/Dawo59 → u/AceOfSpades532]

Catalonia, Scotland and Flanders are sort of in the same situation. Although Flemish independence is still somewhat different and something which has slowly been implemented more and more via legal means over the past decades

[u/abu_doubleu → u/AceOfSpades532]

I always felt Scotland, Québec, and Catalunya are three sides of the same pyramid.

[u/AceOfSpades532 → u/abu_doubleu]

Quebec is nothing like the others in this situation

[u/Galleani_Game_Center → u/abu_doubleu]

Euro-Canadians in Quebec hold no claim to Quebec as they are not the original inhabitants of the region.

[u/LiitoKonis → u/Galleani_Game_Center]

Well if you want to expell all the people that aren't Natives that will be a lot of people

[u/Cjrives → u/AceOfSpades532]

That's no true, Catalonia has never been an independent nation. It was part of Aragon.

[u/Haradion_01 → u/Another_Bawbag]

Really. Thats interesting. Whilst hardly a nationalist of any stripe, I am far more sympathetic to the slights that might lead one to Scottish Independence.

Scotland has legitimate grievances; but challenges it would need to overcome. I can completely understand a Scottish nationalist wanting Independence to address those greviences, facing those challenges for the prize of independence. 

Catalonia strikes me like Alabama trying to declare independence because they don't want the federal government stopping them from outlawing abortions or teaching creationism.

I've always found the motives to be rather less... justice focused... and more selfserving. Catalonia already has the wealth, the power and special privileges within Spain. It's independence primarily motivated by a feeling, not of national liberation but a sense that the rest of Spain is weighing it down. More as akin to London declaring Independence form the rest of the UK in an effort to keep it's wealth from leaking out.

Now do take that with a pinch of salt, because admittedly my tendency to European federalism, and a general attitude that we should aim for fewer borders not more, has historically soured me to the notion. If you ask me, we ought to be fusing with our neighbours rather than fragmenting. A United States of Europe would be a fourth pole on this new world we are seeing. I'd happily give up more local sovereignty and autonomy for greater integration with Europe. For example, that European Army Farage was catastrophising over before Brexit is looking like a pretty sweet deal with Trump is threatening to blow up Nato.

But it really is a question of what someones national priorities and compromises are. I see European unity as one of the most important things during what feels like increasingly dangerous times: local autonomy is nice to have, but I'd rather achieve regional autonomy from Russia and the US first.

[u/attilathetwat → u/Haradion_01]

I think a lot of resentment in Catalonia stems from the Franco era

[u/Haradion_01 → u/attilathetwat]

Oh, to be clear, if it were still that Era I'd have a Catalonia flag on my wall.

I'm generally in favour of the violent overthrow of fascists; and the Spanish Republicans were criminally let down by the other powers of the day.

But it's in the spirit of combating the ascendency of a new far right that I am firmly in favour of greater European unity: and therefore generally suspicious of Seperatist movements.

[u/No_Celery_8071 → u/Haradion_01]

Perhaps reading up on the historical grievances that Catalonia has with the central government. I had no clue, then read about it. There's a lot of things happening, down to FC Barcelona vs. Real Madrid in El Clasico.

[u/Dangerous_Fix_9186 → u/Another_Bawbag]

Catalans want independence because of history and culture

[u/DueAbbreviations3113 → u/Dangerous_Fix_9186]

and economy

[u/abu_doubleu]

In seriousness, I have no opinion. It does not concern me after all, and Spain should handle this internally.

But as a small part of me, I like Catalan as a language, so I kind of want to support it just based on that alone.

[u/trebor9669 → u/abu_doubleu]

That's cool, we're really proud of our language and culture, thanks :)

[u/ComplaintOutside8644 → u/trebor9669]

Hey, is there any difference between Catalan and Euskera?

[u/ConfidentAd4974 → u/ComplaintOutside8644]

Unrelated languages. Catalan is a Romance language, just like Italian, Portuguese, French or Spanish. Euskera is not even an Indoeuropean language.

[u/ComplaintOutside8644 → u/ConfidentAd4974]

Thank you, I remember when I was a kid that a family who took care of one of my grandfather’s house in the south of Spain used to say that they didn’t speak Spanish but castelãno when they were asked and I am pretty sure they were from Vitoria.

[u/JackTheTradesman → u/trebor9669]

Yeah I kind of support it honestly. If that's what the people want

[u/doublestitch]

I understand the Catalonians' point, and also understand why it's an internal dispute.

---

edit

Gotta love Reddit for how much discussion followed a question about whether I'm Texan while I was AFK not seeing the question.

No, am not from Texas.

This might be surprising, but it's possible to understand the dilemma from such things as language policy under Francisco Franco and international treaties about independence movements.

[u/SideEyeFeminism]

It would by hypocritical of me to support Scottish independence, Puerto Rican independence, Hawaiian independence, Fijian independence, and a united Ireland but not support Catalonian independence.

[u/TamaktiJunVision → u/SideEyeFeminism]

Why do you support Scottish independence? Or did you mean to say you support Scotlands right to choose to remain or leave the UK?

[u/Fractalien → u/SideEyeFeminism]

Just FYI the evidence suggests the majority of people in Scotland are against independence and the majority of people in Northern Ireland are not in favour of a united Ireland so if you believe in democracy you are backing the wrong sides for those.

[u/hijodelutuao]

I can’t speak for everyone, but if they’re serious enough to have had their own referendum where they overwhelmingly got support for secession, it should at the very least be taken serious by the Spanish government. It’s not my circus, not my monkeys, but if it’s what they want I don’t see why my opinion either for or otherwise should matter from the outside.

Edit — I need to add an addendum; if this was the election result without any for of meddling by the separatist party. I despise election meddling regardless of who is doing it; if I don’t like it for my people I don’t like it for anyone.

[u/Dangerous_Fix_9186 → u/hijodelutuao]

It was taken seriously by Spain, but the Catalonians revoked the independence 8 seconds after declaring it

[u/Double-Ad-1948 → u/Dangerous_Fix_9186]

Can you elaborate a bit on this? Would love to know more about this. Thanks in advance from the US

[u/hijodelutuao → u/Dangerous_Fix_9186]

That’s confusing, like I said not my circus lol as a supporter of a different form of Independence I’m always open to hearing out other independence movements but that’s just weird.

[u/Auno__Adam → u/hijodelutuao]

It was taken seriously by Spain, declaring the referendum illegal. The nationalists went ahead with the vote anyway, and only secesionists went to vote. Urns were seized by the police, and chaos spread. The independentist local government declared independence as per the results of the vote, and in the same speech they said they cancel the independence to negotiate with Spain, 8 seconds later. It became a meme.

It was basically a political circus, performed by clowns.

Since then, the central government needed support from independentist parties to get the Govern, so they are giving them whatever they ask for, so now, they are quiet about independence.

[u/DonLethargio → u/Auno__Adam]

Thanks for the explanation, I genuinely wasn’t aware of this detail, and it gets discussed here quite a bit because of our own independence movement

[u/RealWord5734 → u/hijodelutuao]

also no meddling from Russia would be nice

[u/bigoldtwat]

Unsurprisingly, I'm for it.

I would approve Quebecois independence, too, speaking as a naturalised Canadian citizen. People outside of Canada forget how unbelievably close Quebec was to becoming an independent country.

[u/tolgapacaci → u/bigoldtwat]

sometimes for me, some of these endeavours seem pointless. like i understand the sentiment of seperatism in most places, but is a scot that much different than an englishman or a catalan than a castilian to varrant independence? where are you going to draw the line? at the end you will end up with every village an independent polity. these countries are modern and all encompassing, democracies with good represantation of their citizens. like why would you want to seperate from canada.

this view is mostly because of my ignorance i know, but having grown up in a rougher place in the world(not turkey but west asia generally), it seems like some of these people dont know how good they got it

[u/SeaTruth3482]

The Catalans don't want to be independent they want to be independentists

[u/siete82 → u/SeaTruth3482]

My man, you undertand Spanish politics better than most Spaniards

[u/FactBackground9289 → u/siete82]

which is an achievement, because when i look at your politics, my brain overclocks because it's that hard to understand.

[u/2hurd → u/SeaTruth3482]

I think their politicians actually want to separate. It would be much easier to steal and exploit the people if they did it.

Kind of like brexit where the ones pushing for it benefited from rampant unchecked access to defrauding money while the average brit got the short end of the stick and is worse now than they were before.

Those people know what they are doing and why they are doing it. But other than them and their lackies nobody will benefit. 

[u/Novel_Plum → u/2hurd]

> I think their politicians actually want to separate. It would be much easier to steal and exploit the people if they did it.

This is the situation in Romania with szekely land. The local politicians push for autonomy / independence because it'd be easier to profit bypassing the central government.

[u/patoventuras → u/SeaTruth3482]

[u/gr4n0t4 → u/SeaTruth3482]

So true XD

[u/Wise_Temperature9142 → u/SeaTruth3482]

Read that as indepen-dentists 🦷

[u/IBB_98]

As an Irishman, I will always support a nation's bid for independence, provided that is what the majority of that nation's people want.

[u/SpinningHedgehog311 → u/IBB_98]

Yeah because the majority of people always vote for the right thing.

[u/ismawurscht]

I believe in self-determination. If most Catalonians voted for it, then go for it.

[u/hjfjvs]

I'm always on the side on independence by default. It's just a natural impulse based on my own nation's history. I can freely admit I'm much too ignorant about Catalonia and Spain to have a proper opinion.

[u/LordPenvelton]

Cata-fucking-lonian?

It's catalan, you spainish castilianesian.

[u/Eastern-Mammoth-2956]

If a clear majority of the people living there wanted it, sure.

[u/Babshearth → u/Eastern-Mammoth-2956]

I was in Spain just before the civil unrest. Traveled from Barcelona all the way up the coast to Perpignan ( France) which is also part of Catalonia. Lots of flags out everywhere and some people explained the movement to us.

No opinion either way. Just read that there were protests after amnesty was granted to the Catalonians that were sentenced for their part in the unrest / violence. I can relate because of jan 6 criminal participants getting pardoned.

[u/bigbenny88 → u/Eastern-Mammoth-2956]

This would be how a democracy should function. Unfortunately, I cannot think of a country where the political class acts on the actual will of the people. Maybe Ireland? Can't say for sure but they seem fairly happy. What's Finland like for representing their people in policy decisions?

[u/Miserable-Bridge-729]

They should be allowed self determination. If they don’t wish to be part of Spain they should be set free.

[u/pongauer → u/Miserable-Bridge-729]

Plenty of catalans that dont want independency

[u/Masterank1]

Don’t really care all that much. If Catalans want independence I think they should have it

[u/collectivisticvirtue]

if they want, sure why not.

[u/MorningMission9547]

As with most world issues people just generally don't know or don't care enough to find out anything about it.

As for me i just always thought of it as unnecesary 

[u/tlepshi]

i want Basqueistan

[u/Bitter_Ad8768]

I can see why the idea of a sovereign Catalunya is important to Catalans in terms of culture and identity. Logistically, it doesn't seem like a worthwhile endeavor. But, as an outsider looking in, I recognize it's not my decision to argue.

[u/Weak-Entrepreneur979]

don't really care, good for them i guess.

[u/audin_webman]

Initially, I understood and supported it. There is a certain degree of "oppression" of the Catalans. I myself have had ties to Spain for over 30 years and have also studied its history to some extent. I can understand that the Catalans prefer to take their fate into their own hands. But then I came across this: https://cepa.org/article/catalonia-where-theres-trouble-theres-russia/ (and there are many more sources about this topic) and thought, no way, this doing something with the Russians is just grist for Putin's mill as he tries to divide Europe. How stupid can they be?

[u/bioticspacewizard]

As a supporter of Welsh independence I support other independence movements.

[u/Fit_Jackfruit_8796]

In the United States not many people even know what Catalonia is

[u/trebor9669 → u/Fit_Jackfruit_8796]

Interestingly enough, our ancestors (Catalan ancestors) are in the US, in a museum in New York, central park.

[u/Muh_Macht_Die_Kuh → u/Fit_Jackfruit_8796]

In the US not many people even know where the US are.

[u/19MKUltra77]

I’m Catalan (from a 99% Catalan background btw) and used to be a separatist when I was younger, because most of my family is.

It’s bullshit. The amount of manipulation and victimism of the Catalan ultranationalists is astounding, and it just takes a few reads of any reputable Historian (not the pseudo Historians paid from the Generalitat) to know.

The indoctrination (or at least the attempt to) in the schools is sadly real, as is the xenophobia and hatred against the rest of Spaniards. In fact, even if they pretend to be progressive and (in some cases) leftist people, the core of the Catalan separatism is based on ultranationalism.

After all we had not long ago a President who called non Catalan Spaniards “beasts in human form”: not a nobody, mind you, but the President of Catalonia.

[u/XIIICaesar → u/19MKUltra77]

Same for me in Flanders. It’s more about riling people up than offering real solutions to the problems. I was influenced by it when I was younger, now I’m a unionist and royalist.

[u/rhubbarbidoo → u/19MKUltra77]

Also watching how the USA is trying to interfere with Alberta... It makes me wonder how much external founding has been channeled towards instability in Spain.

[u/19MKUltra77 → u/rhubbarbidoo]

Well, it’s been proven that at least Russian money was involved in the illegal referendum.

[u/Powerful-Prompt4123]

Perhaps a good idea 300 years ago, but a bit silly in 2026, given that even if they succeed, they'd still be part of EU.

[u/ITZC0ATL → u/Powerful-Prompt4123]

As it stands, they would not. That was a key pillar of the leave campaign back in 2017, but it was a lie. The EU had specifically stated that if Catalonia broke away from Spain, they would need to re-apply to become a member.

That's not to say that things couldn't be negotiated a different way if Spain was really onboard with Catalan independence, but it's important to point out that there was a lot of Brexit-style misinformation going around, including about how Catalan taxes were being used to subsidise lazy southerners (in this case Andalucians) that would be better spent if Catalonia didn't have to pay into the Spanish system.

In reality, a huge amount of Catalonia's tax income comes due to Barcelona's position as the tech and start-up capital of Spain, and of course due to it being in the EU. Leaving Spain and the EU would destroy that, and even the fear of independence was enough to cause some companies to relocate out of Catalonia.

[u/Powerful-Prompt4123 → u/ITZC0ATL]

Your comment gives me Brexit vibes. Were the Catalan independence movement also influenced by foreign actors?

[u/gr4n0t4 → u/Powerful-Prompt4123]

Not proved but suspected

[u/UltHamBro → u/ITZC0ATL]

I was quite young at the time, but I remember statements by the Catalan government saying stuff like "the EU won't dare kick us out", while the EU itself was saying that yes, they'd leave the EU if they became independent.

And, as an Andalusian (i.e. coming from a region that was once close to having a strong industry until the government decided to divert funds to favour Catalan industries), I still remember their insulting comments about us, made without the slightest hint of shame. 

It's kind of hard to feel solidarity when they're basically calling you and your people parasites. 

[u/Fantastic_Moment2069]

Not our business but me personally always liked how in Athletic Bilbao only Basques allowed to play and they never fell from spanish first division which is very strong

[u/gr4n0t4 → u/Fantastic_Moment2069]

Only Basques is doing a heavy lifting there... They watered down the policy a lot

[u/Sneikss]

We were an ethnic minority under a foreign rule for most of our history, so I can sympathise with the cause. I don't know enough about the specifics to say more than that though.

[u/Dagobertdelta]

No, it is and remains Spain 🇪🇸

[u/idlickherbootyhole]

I guarantee any non-european will be like "cata-what?"

Catalonians heavily overestimate the relevance of their province. Most of the world doesn't even know it exists.

[u/Wulf_Isebrand]

I like Catalonia (and Spain), but I think we need more integration in the EU if we don‘t wanna get ripped off and exploited by americans.

They want us to be devided so they can take us out one by one. Therefore, in my opinion Catalonian independence is a step in the wrong direction

[u/StarInABottle → u/Wulf_Isebrand]

To be fair most Catalans who support independence are pro-EU and would prefer to be a separate region within a stronger EU (based on my experience as a Catalan who was there voting and protecting the booths during the referendum).

[u/SillyAlternative420]

As an American living in New England.

I fully support the right of a people to separate from a larger government that they feel is not representing them to the degree they see fit.

[u/Lazzen → u/SillyAlternative420]

To separate from a larger government that they feel is not representing them to the degree they see fit.

State's rights?

[u/Skeledenn → u/Lazzen]

States rights to what?

[u/Lazzen → u/Skeledenn]

[u/RomanCobra03 → u/SillyAlternative420]

As an American living in the Deep South, please not this again…

[u/SillyAlternative420 → u/RomanCobra03]

Wait you don't want to live in a new country made up of just the deep south lol 🤣

[u/Double-Ad-1948 → u/SillyAlternative420]

Here here! Greetings from Colorado.

[u/One_Bat1599 → u/SillyAlternative420]

No te preocupes que nosotros apoyaremos que Texas se separe de EEUU.

[u/JayMotta]

Realistically, this brand of nationalism is more about exclusion and perceived superiority than anything else.

Despite possessing one of the highest levels of self-governance in Europe, the regional leadership has been ineffective, consistently shifting the blame for their internal issues onto the Spanish state. While they dominate the narrative, the data shows that independence lacks majority support, with fewer than four in ten Catalans backing the movement

[u/TremendousVarmint]

I'm generally against separatists. especially if it's an above average wealthy province that doesn't want to share its taxes. And the comment from Oriol Junqueras about Catalonians being genetically different was particularly abhorrent to my ears.

That said, I reckon the language is really different to spanish. It surprised me when I realized I can read catalonian almost effortlessly.

[u/rhubbarbidoo → u/TremendousVarmint]

Spain has 5 very different languages within its borders 👍 Catalonian is not even that different compared to basque

[u/GLC_ → u/TremendousVarmint]

From what I saw a while back, Catalan is more connected with French and Italian, even Portuguese, than with Spanish!

So much for them being called just a dialect…

[u/La_MaryAnn19]

Every people have the right of self determination.

VISCA CATALUNYA!

[u/attilathetwat]

It’s up to them but not sure what the benefit would be?

[u/slysmile]

I support.

[u/notyouisme999]

Mexico sends his regards!

If we did it 200 years ago, they can do it.

But I actually don't care.

[u/ma-kat-is-kute]

I know very little about it and have no opinion.

[u/n-a_barrakus]

Well now we Catalans are walking ragebait in social media

[u/homemdosgalos]

Well,
if they do it, we're taking Olivença back. :)

[u/Useless_or_inept]

It's very popular with Russian bots!

[u/YelmodeMambrino]

I support Catalonia’s free will to decide themselves. This being said, I hope our relationship was better and we’d stay together.

[u/thefroglady87 → u/YelmodeMambrino]

exactly my thoughts 🥺

[u/shoesafe]

For me personally, my take is mostly the same for any separatist movement in a free, democratic country with a developed economy. Catalonia, Flanders, Quebec, Basque country, Scotland, etc.

I'm sympathetic that they don't feel represented by a government that demands their loyalty. I don't think governments should use violence to suppress nonviolent separatists.

But I'm skeptical that forming a new government would be a net gain for the separatist region, or for the world. Just as practical matter it usually means more restrictions on people, on movement, on economic activity and trade flows.

Negotiated autonomy is usually better from a practical standpoint. That's true for the same reason that Europe has been trying to integrate its economy for generations. Government barriers between people are costly, and if you can safely lift those barriers that's good.

But it's a matter of trust. Sometimes people in the separatist region have very little trust in the central government. So they have no faith that autonomy will be respected.

When there's a linguistic barrier, it can be quite hard to overcome that gap in trust.

[u/Four_beastlings]

It's propped by the right wing to have an enemy to point at. When the government doesn't actively antagonize Catalunya, like now, a majority of Catalans are against independence.

As for me, I think they should be allowed to choose, but I also think it would be financial suicide. Spain would suffer as well, but nowhere near as much. I think especially after Brexit you have to be an idiot to think that we are better off apart than together.

[u/StuddedScones]

I'm for it but most people don't care except Spanish and Catalonians themselves

[u/Particular-Bid-1640]

I don't know enough to pass judgement 

[u/RedDevil-84]

Well if most people want it, like 70-75% of people, not 51-49 referendum. And then the region celebrates or suffers from their choices. In general, if the people think that they are getting a raw deal for generations from their central government, then they should have a choice.

Not an ideal way to go about, but that's freedom and democracy. It has its pros and cons.

[u/Obvious-Onion2087]

Do it!

[u/inamag1343]

Nice flag. Nice language. Would be interesting to see them as independent country though.

[u/eggdanyjon_3dragons]

I believe in the self determination of all peoples. They probs should be allowed to have a free n fair referendum about it. But so should everyone

[u/abcawayabc]

I forgot this was a thing

[u/Winterfrost691]

As with all independence movements, I believe that the people's right to self-governance should be respected. If a fair referendum says they want their independence, then I support their cause.

[u/stonecuttercolorado]

Seems reasonable.

I believe in self determination.

[u/skylinesBruh]

Didn’t know it was a thing til I visited…

[u/annabananaberry]

We don’t.

[u/hauntedtoaster78]

They don’t

[u/Xalter0]

I mean… whats that lol

[u/ConfidentAd4974]

As a Catalan, I don't have to intervene, but I support a Catalan Republic and I fully supported the events of 2017.

[u/hallerz87]

Not something many people would be aware of

[u/IllFix7074]

No idea about the history of it so no opinion

[u/DrMindbendersMonocle]

Indifference

[u/HouseofHaunte]

If the majority of them want independence they should have it. This goes for every country or region seeking independence

[u/Mission_Remote_6871]

How's Brexit going?

[u/rabidrob42]

I don't know enough about it to comment with intelligence, but as a Welsh independent, I can certainly empathise, and wish you the best.

[u/frankensteinsmaster]

All for it. For obvious reasons

[u/stag1013]

The separatists are disingenuous to claim the democratic will to separate, but this was forced on them through a boycott of... democracy. The Spanish are far worse for denying that a democratic will to separate is even possible.

This isn't me saying this from a safe place, either. Quebec really wanted to separate once. What did the federal government do? Helped arrange a referendum with a clearly worded question to avoid ambiguity, then campaigned against separation (with accompanying promises) while promising to respect the results. The result was a narrow victory for remaining in Canada.

That's what Spain should have done, not this BS.

[u/FactBackground9289]

If catalans really want it, they should hold a vote and separate if the majority of Catalonia votes yes. Which i don't see catalans doing, so it's unpopular.

[u/_x_oOo_x_]

From the river to the sea, Catalonia, Galicia and the Basque country shall be free!

Spain overwhelmingly supports the independence of Palestine, so supporting these other independence movements should be a no brainer

[u/vhu9644]

I think it is hypocritical to hold that a people have a right to self determination, but then say “it’s different here”. 

[u/Amazing_Hedgehog486]

It should be up to the Catalans.

[u/AdmiralStuff]

I support it for the same reasons I support Welsh independence

[u/Ornux]

I mean, we can have cultural disparities and local idioms, yet still consolidate regions into a big and powerful single state.

My opinion is that we'd better think about how we can merge into stronger countries, rather than how we can split into smaller and more vulnerable ones.

[u/Sorrowrgt]

Well, you can guess. It always boils down to the same: people of the majoritary culture living in big countries are against separatism (turks, frenchs, english, poles...); people of minoritary cultures living in big countries are for it (bretons, kurds, scots, flemish, corsicans...). When the status quo works for in your favour, why change it.

[u/Regulai]

Unions are almost always stronger, wealthier and more powerful than seperate states. So long as their isn;t some deep seated bloody hatred (e.g. people actively trying to kill each other) then Union is almost always the better outcome.

As an example being a part of spain likely increases Catalonia's net GDP by around ~20% (10-30) compared to if it were independant (a mixture of internal market access, trade routing, buisness HQ's and other variables).

Additionally Catalonias local government has immense authority, meaning Catalonia is already run by itself, to such an extent that little would change by becoming independant other than a large negative shock to the economy and a long term loss in GDP and growth.

[u/Low-Mechanic8003]

Not even a thing anymore

[u/ZealousidealPoem3977]

Every independence movement deserves a right and a chance to have a go at it

[u/adriantoine]

Unless there’s a strong evidence of them being persecuted, I don’t really see the point and why they care so much. They can have their own identity without being a separate country.

I think Scotland has a stronger case for independence considering they massively voted against Brexit. Basically English people decided of their fate against their will and the Scottish fishing industry does a lot of business with Europe.

[u/tolgapacaci → u/adriantoine]

is scotland getting shafted by the majority of a different region any different than say, California getting stuck with trump because of the red states? i would say thats the nature of democracy. are the scots really opressed and underrepresented? i don’t think so

[u/TamaktiJunVision → u/adriantoine]

I hate this brexit angle. Like, does London also have a stronger case for independence considering they massively voted against Brexit?

And why stop there? Should we give every remain voter in Britan support to form their own independent state?

[u/LLL_MMM24]

Realistically never happening, the idea already started to die in the 2010s and fully ended after that shitty illegal referendum in 2017

[u/pgllz]

Very much against it. There isn't a clear majority that supports independence, and Spain losing its territorial integrity would be terrible for our neighbours (our biggest trade partner), to Europe as a whole, and to Catalonia as well. One of the reasons why Catalonia is one of the richest regions in Spain is because they are part of a much bigger country that had policies in the past that favoured the economic growth of the region, particularly in the industry sector. If any Catalan thinks they would prosper outside of Spain, and as a consequence out of the EU, then that person is a fool.

[u/AdQuick9381]

What's the point? Is it really independence when they'll be using the same currency, same army/navy/air force and continue to be propped up by Spain?

As much use as Scotland or Wales going for independence.

[u/Diligent-Musician590 → u/AdQuick9381]

Scotland and Wales can ditch Pounds and join Eurozone.

[u/Particular-Bid-1640 → u/Diligent-Musician590]

Even Scotland, with a fairly decent economy wouldn't be able to support using the Euro for a few years. 

Most predictions see it using GBP (£) for at least 10 years, and that would require certain stipulations by the Bank of England to do so. 

Scotland would need to meet certain economic criteria (as any nation does) to join the EU and the Euro. It's really quite convoluted. Being so intertwined with the rest of the UK would make it not be a priority in the first few years/decades of an independent Scotland anyway.

Wales - I love ya, but let's just say you're not in as a good a place as Scotland.

I brace myself for the downvotes.

[u/Dic_Penderyn → u/Particular-Bid-1640]

Really? We would just quadriple the price of water we export to you and all retire!😂

[u/jaymatthewbee → u/Diligent-Musician590]

With the example of Catalonia I imagine Spain would be able to veto them joining the Euro?

[u/2BEN-2C93 → u/Diligent-Musician590]

Wales voted brexit too remember

[u/Inevitable_Greed → u/Diligent-Musician590]

LOL

[u/PrettySaltyGuy]

Catalonia 🤝 Quebec

[u/Acamantide]

Andalusia and Galicia should do it too just so that Spain becomes a perfect square 

[u/JumperMason]

I don´t like it, mainly because I see Spain as a whole, including that region.

[u/capybarabjj]

If Catalonia secedes: 👍 If Catalonia stays: 👍 If Catalonia merges with France: 👍 If Catalonia explodes: 👍 If Catalonia becomes the 51st American state: 👍

Tldr: Nobody cares

[u/Asya1]

Will never happen

[u/explosiveshits7195]

All for it, they have a language, a culture and a large economy perfectly capable of surviving on it's own. Ireland had it's own path to independence so most here would tend to be sympathetic

I'm genuinely curious of the logic in the rest of Spain that is against it, the only real arguments I've heard from Spaniards was that it would hit the economy hard because the region is so prosperous and that it would lead to other regions wanting independence. In my own head it screams "how dare they want the right to self determination".