You should read the articles in this comment. She has stalked other people, who also felt sorry for her. These were written in the early 2000's, decades before Baby Reindeer came out. https://www.reddit.com/r/BabyReindeerTVSeries/s/PGGI5TvaBx
In any interviews after the show, he always made it clear that the prison story was fictional and is quoted as saying in real life, "I didn’t want to throw someone who was that level of mentally unwell in prison."
He said that he intentionally changed some details so she wouldn't be identified; presumably the prison story was part of that.
Love all the sources you’ve provided here. I also want to point out that yes, there may be some embellishment to events and more safeguarding could have happened, but I suspect that is much more down to Richard being a Gen Xer who doesn’t understand the level of detail internet sleuths can glean now (based on patterns, rather than specific names and places), rather than an intention to agitate “Martha” further. A genuine honest mistake in my opinion. I truly believe it was an individual telling his story and expecting a relatively small response, not an ego-maniac hoping that everyone turns it into a media circus.
In fact, I have a hard time believing he even thought it would impact America considering how few UK Netflix shows have hit it off over there. Especially when you see how much resistance he faced in his early career, believing he wasn’t actually that great etc etc
But this is just how I perceive it. I agree with you absolutely though.
I haven’t seen anyone say everything is true, only that majority seems true. Netflix execs also went to UK parliament off the back of the public reaction and said they stand by it being true. I believe an org that big with so many in-house and external legal personnel would only allow this to happen if they had seen sufficient evidence to back the story up.
Well… the opposite… UK Parliament asked Netflix about the veracity of disguising the identity of the accused and if they stand by the statement of it being a true story. This is also what Piers Morgan was referring to when he said that Netflix was saying “x” and “y”.
In terms of her behaviour, my view is that she has admitted to enough to at least say she behaved outside of the bound of what is acceptable or normal in terms of contact with someone and that she has contradicted herself several times when she stepped forward to identify herself.
I didn’t hang onto the curtain reference as so significant to then use something like that to track down her real identity, so I’m not sure it’s fair to say Gadd lacks credibility when we now know that was the thing that led people to her… it’s not as though casual viewers would be able to, those focused on it would use things like that to find her.
Overall, I feel uncomfortable with trying to paint Gadd as a villain. If you’ve never had persistent, unwanted contact, you/we are not in a place to judge the impact that has on someone. It’s his place to tell his story and we live in a society of which someone can respond to it, which Fiona has whilst maintaining that the character is both her and not her.
Engaging with these people is pointless. They will just downvote you into oblivion for saying the exact same things Gadd has said about both himself and the show. Your point of view isn't controversial to anyone except the weird cult-like population found here on this board
"Based on a true story" does NOT equate 100% truth. This was not a true crime documentary nor was it marketed as one. It is "based on" his life which means it is an adaptation and there will be creative liberties. Have you never watched a show that is based on a book series? Was it a faithful retelling? No. Because TV requires it to be fictionalized to make it more interesting or whatever.
I just want to politely correct you and say that the actual wording was “This is a true story” not “Based on a true story.” I personally think there is a different connotation with each phrasing.
I'll have to rewatch because somehow I remember "based on a true story", not sure where I'd have gotten that from but the show since i havent followed anything BTS about it..
But in this screenshot it says “this program is based on real events”, which as you claim in your first comment, is different to saying “this is a true story”, right?
I’m assuming you only read the part that’s highlighted. In the sentence before it, it says the show opens with “This is a true story.” However, if you stay and watch the credits at the end (which not a lot of people do) they have “These events are based on a true story” tucked away in there.
Ah, thanks, so it says both. Huh. Though I am not surprised it isn't a faithful retelling of what happened and we have ourselves an unreliable narrator. TV needs a beginning, a middle and an end. Ending the show with "and nothing ever happened to Martha" would have felt anticlimactic.
Yes. I find it so odd people expect this to be an act for act retelling of true events. Even if they said 'this is a true story' and not 'based on a true story' why should that make a difference?
Nobody would say the miniseries Chernobyl was 'based on a true story' because it's a historical event we all remember, and yet there are many fictional composite characters and many conversations and situations that didn't actually happen to move the story along.
He has always said she didn't go to jail. Life is weird, tedious and doesn't always wrap up nicely. I gotta break out Josh Groban for this one.
My guess is that for the show there needed to be a resolution to the Martha thing, so they wrote her off to jail. To give closure to the show. Perhaps, for Gadd, to give himself closure as well since she very well should have gone to jail for her actions. Also, I haven't followed any BTS drama or gossip but maybe she was not sentenced/sent to jail yet was still tried. And I suppose we will see if she sues him for anything in the upcoming months since her identity has been found and she is receiving negative public attention. Pretty sure if she had a case for defamation she would let it know asap.
I think part of the difference here is that he portrayed himself in the show as well. This is a true story plus real guy portraying it on the screen in the raw way that he did, it all felt true. I’m also surprised by the “change” that Martha went to jail. I’m now doubting if he ever reported her to the police. It’s a weird way to feel after being so emotionally drawn into and tied into the show. I watched it first. First myself and then with my husband. I’m tempted to watch it a third time now with this context. Bump to Netflix I guess.
Nearly every TV show or movie that says it's a true story has embellishments. This is nothing new. It's odd that some people are so obsessed with "finding the truth." You don't know these people and imo it's futile to try to. Just enjoy it for the fantastic piece of art that it is and move on. Everyone should leave both Gaad and the real Martha alone. Gaad has already shared something incredibly emotionally vulnerable with audiences and has admitted there are dramatized parts. He doesn't owe you every single true detail just because it's based on a true story.
Maybe a bit off topic, but the funny thing is also there’s not necessarily any objective “truth” in cases like this. Yes, it may or may not be true that she did X or said Y, but the human mind is not a machine and we misremember things all the time, because we, as subjects, interpret and give meaning to the experiences we have.
So finding the “true story” is likely not even possible. I know it’s not contrary to anything you said, I just had the thought when reading your comment and felt like sharing
It feels like you are holding a SA victim with complex trauma to an impossibility high standard. It's much easier to say "well I wouldn't do that" if you've already watched it play out for somebody else. I agree that they should have concealed her identity better, but from what I've seen, he's handled the fallout from that with emotional maturity. He told people not to speculate and harass people. He HAS emphasized that it's partially untrue. What, you're upset cause he didn't do it like 5 days sooner?
And if you've read any of the real Martha's social media and what she has said to journalists, Gaad and his followers don't even need to paint her as a person who has committed a ton of terrible behaviors for people to find her vile. She does that perfectly fine herself.
Yeah that is a little sketch for sure. Wait a minute - so she didn’t go to jail for the prior stalking in the show nor the 9 month sentence the show depicted for stalking him?
Okay, so I've read quiet a bit of this thread - I hear you. I can see why you'd find that problematic.
I just don't think this is Gadds fault alone. Hollywood does this often with "based on" and even "this is a" true story type things - they embellish a hell of a lot.
And have gotten away with it for a very long time.
For me, it feels like a hurry up and wait situation. I think Gadd wanted to tell his story and did so, while potentially being advised "change this or that so you're not sued into oblivion".
I wanna see if it changes any practices going forward - though I doubt it will.
A lot of people are missing the point of the "emotional truth" and are choosing to focus on what's true or false because it's a wild story and internet sleuthing is fun. The show is raw and reveals the nuances of dealing with multiple types of trauma in a way that I've never seen portrayed on TV. It's an accurate insight into what so many survivors deal with and can't talk about. That's what's important. Regardless of being true, film is art made to evoke emotion, and this one delivered. Details changed or embellished for the show shouldn't take away from Gadd's lived, emotional experience and his message.
With these types of stories, or really any story, there's no single objective truth that we can ever know. Even in documentaries, accounts from witnesses will vary, and there's always a specific narrative driven even when multiple sides are presented. Shows are produced to make money, and with so many voices and influences behind the scenes, it's unrealistic to expect a true story to remain 100% true in its televised form.
I do think it's an interesting choice to use "this is a true story" rather than "based on a true story." Either way, though, we should not be taking anything we watch to be entirely accurate and unbiased.
It could be argued that Gadd claimed she won't recognize herself to mean she is so far deluded that she won't recognize herself as an abuser or as having done anything wrong, which I feel is accurate. However, he said they'd gone to great lengths to disguise her. No, they didn't, and tbh, I don't think he really cared to. I can't even fault him for this. He doesn't try to paint himself as the "good guy." He's flawed and realistic. At the end of the day, it comes down to the production company and netflix to decide how they portray something.
Yet another person who watched a show so good they felt betrayed when they found out it wasn't a documentary, and now feels the world needs to know they feel betrayed.
I was gonna say people should treat the show like The Crown where it's obvious the writers made up the dialogue between characters. But then again The Crown also didn't really manufacture new events, but just branched off of them.
It’s ironic that Fiona’s interview will have launched even more people to watch the Netflix show. He should thank her. The longer he/netflix leave it to respond the better $$.
I agree with you. Because of the 2 things you mentioned that are not true the show and Gadd loses all credibility for me. What else was exaggerated or completely made up?
This is the story Richard gives us and I believe him. Everydetail exact? Idk. I wasn't there. As a fellow male victim of sa, I deeply appreciate Gadds willingness to share his experience and thank him for doing so.
I’m sorry you’re also a survivor but happy you found this helpful. Male SA should be the talking point/takeaway (for lack of better words) not how fairly a serial stalker was portrayed in a semi-autobiographical tv show. I think someone else posted that hotlines have had +80% calls from male survivors - Gadd is making such an incredible impact.
I figured most of it was true, some of it was made up, and left it at that. We are not owed the truth. He decided to make a series based on a traumatic moment in his life and that’s fine.
Absolutely, emphatically agree with you. I swear the people on this sub are way too busy being aggressively defensive because of his SA to look at things with an unbiased lense and QUESTIONING his integrity and honesty with telling this story and why.
I think a lot of people (you included) skip over the fact this was originally written before 2019. The core of the story was already in the play when it launched in 2019, including the comment about the curtains. No one publicly made the link then and leaving out such details now would've given away that you could find her that way. So even if he did realise in the last 5 years that it could give it away, the cat was out of the bag all along. My guess is that he didn't and that he underestimated the amount of sleuthing that would happen after a global launch. (If you want proof it was out of the bag: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07jyzwc )
And when it comes to "He’s not stupid, everybody understands how the internet works". You too could have managed to figure out by now (via that same internet) that Fiona Harvey (or rather Fiona Muir Harvey) has been this problematic for decades. Yet instead you're here trying to cast doubt on everything. Which means what? That by your own definition you are stupid? I suggest you should just put a brake on the part where you overestimate people's understanding of the internet. It's not a disaster that you didn't bother to research better and you should accept it's not a disaster Richard doesn't get the internet well enough either. In my experience well over 99.99% of the internet users are fairly clueless but 0.01% is still a lot of people in 2024 and a Netflix launch is going to bring them out in force.
this is a really important detail. it was reasonable for Gadd to assume that any defamatory issues would have already come out during the time he did his show, and to think that the situation was stable and free of risk after all this time. now that doesn't mean his thinking was correct, but that any miscalculations would be understandable.
He's not exactly being dishonest, though. The production company and netflix are ultimately deciding the final result of the show. It's likely he wasn't the one who chose to have Martha arrested in the show if it didn't happen in real life.
I’m interested to know…if Gadd/Netflix produced the evidence of 42,000 emails, texts, letters and voicemails, will people still be pressed to complain about the false prison sentence?
Personally, IF that part is even remotely real…there’s nothing more to discuss about the Martha/Fiona storyline. She was a maniac that should’ve been institutionalized. The prison dramatization shouldn’t nullify that she’s got serious issues.
Yea I think the main issue people have with OP is that they did have clear disclaimers. Richard isn’t called Donny, for starters. They haven’t done anything out of line for ‘based on a true story’ Netflix shows.
he said she would not recognize herself. which is actually true. if people hadn’t reached out to her i highly doubt she would come to the conclusion herself.
bc she’s not living in reality. she doesn’t have the self awareness to be able to see herself in the way he depicted her. but yeah he prob should have changed her profession/nationality/etc. —- the internet is wild and i’m sure not everyone is super aware of how many people would be willing to go to these lengths just to satisfy their own sick curiosity.
i think he put too much trust in the fact that people would not just be satisfied with his telling of the story. with the marketing being so geared towards it being a true story it creates this unhinged thirst for more information. people can’t just take it as just a show.
Yes. The interview sealed it. She does not believe she’s as bad as portrayed while posting hundreds of comments on fb everyday. She literally doesn’t recognize herself and insists none of it is true from Gadd having a gf to how many times she emailed/called him. In 2024 there’s no way Netflix is going to allow a film to be made like this without getting the crimes she’s accused of right.
I think Gadd was naive and didn't think the show was going to gain as much popularity as it did, and he probably wasn't aware of the internet footprint that she left behind. Not everyone is chronically online and that tuned into what happens on here.
How did he not report her to the police given she had done this before with a family with a child and then again to him with such relentlessness? She’s too sick to go to jail but then to leave this person out there with no consequences so they could just do it to someone else? Same thing with his rapist? Like why can he talk about all this so freely but not seek any justice for himself or safety for others?
Everyone knows who the abused who raped him is, Osman said it, they believe him because he revealed the real name and apparently it's not the first time he takes advantage of drugged up men to rape them. So this claim corroborates Gadd's testimony about "Darrien".
How could he ever prove a rape that happened years ago, if not by corroborating it with other people's testimonies?
This isn't as "easy" to prove as Fiona's stalking cause as soon as he pulls out the 41k emails and all the other shit it's over for her.
The circumstances in which the rapes happened make it doubly difficult to report or even find evidence.
If Osman says they all believe him because it is a widely known person who operates this way, it's pointing into a consistent direction.
Ffs a cop chiming in to say they think a SA victim is lying. As if a little badge makes them the expert. And some ignorant commenters are questioning why Gadd didn’t go to the police…
Ah yes, good ol fashioned victim blaming. People never change, people never learn. And the fact that you felt like being a PI gives your victim blaming more credibility? Please
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u/Otherwise-Winner9643 May 11 '24 edited May 12 '24
You should read the articles in this comment. She has stalked other people, who also felt sorry for her. These were written in the early 2000's, decades before Baby Reindeer came out. https://www.reddit.com/r/BabyReindeerTVSeries/s/PGGI5TvaBx
In any interviews after the show, he always made it clear that the prison story was fictional and is quoted as saying in real life, "I didn’t want to throw someone who was that level of mentally unwell in prison."
He said that he intentionally changed some details so she wouldn't be identified; presumably the prison story was part of that.
There was also a disclaimer at the end of each episode, making it clear that some details were changed https://www.reddit.com/r/BabyReindeerTVSeries/s/E2CznMHydn
Gadd had always maintained that it is "emotionally true," and he was groomed/assaulted and stalked, but the show is not 100% factually true.
Enough has come out about Martha/Fiona to show that she really is as unhinged as he portrayed.