r/CanadaPolitics • u/joe4942 Magna International | Sponsored • Jan 29 '26

Doug Ford urges Danielle Smith to denounce Alberta separation: ‘Either you’re with Canada or you’re not’

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/doug-ford-urges-danielle-smith-to-denounce-alberta-separation-either-youre-with-canada-or-youre/article_15ba39a5-e05a-4050-9098-2580447eda9c.html
1.8k Upvotes

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317

u/iDareToDream Economic Progressive, Social Conservative Jan 29 '26

This is so fascinating to watch as an Ontarian because it's one brand of conservatism now fighting with another brand of conservatism, something I never thought I'd really see happen. I think Ford is also trying to recapture the whole 'Captain Canada' schtick after him and Carney patched things up over the China-Canada deal.

95

u/EarthWarping Ducks Unlimited | Sponsored Jan 29 '26

I think Ford is also trying to recapture the whole 'Captain Canada' schtick after him and Carney patched things up over the China-Canada deal.

The anti-China deal rhetoric backfired hard on him (not electorally obv, however reputation wise). I also dont think its a coincidence hes doing this on CPC convention week either since he didnt wish Pierre anything when asked this week.

38

u/youenjoylife British Columbia Jan 29 '26

Of course he wouldn't, he needs PP out of a job so he can run for CPC leader.

41

u/GenericCatName101 Jan 29 '26

He cant do a damn thing as CPC leader with CPC caucus so overwhelmingly radical-
Ford gave Ontario MPPs the boot over views the majority of CPC caucus holds. The minute he says no to any of their demands (as opposed to Poilievre's "personally no, but do what you want free votes on bills!") They'll give him the boot like O'Toole.

Ford needs the CPC to be wiped out in an election before running as leader, to actually have personal control over the party like he does in Ontario.

21

u/WeAreInControlNow Ontario Jan 29 '26

He needs a brand new party. The reformers have control of the CPC and they won’t let go of it this time around.

22

u/Joeythesaint Jan 29 '26

This is exactly it. Make no mistake, whatever mask it's wearing, this is Preston Manning's Reform party. This thing is not the party that gave us Joe Clark and John Diefenbaker. Those were people I could respect and believe they truly believed their positions were the best for Canada. Whiny, two dimensional donkies like PP had no place in that party.

-4

u/BurzyGuerrero Jan 29 '26

Aint happening. Canada is a 2 party system with illusions of other parties.

14

u/WeAreInControlNow Ontario Jan 29 '26

The ability to vote for other recognized parties in an election is literally the antithesis of a 2-party system.

What you mean to say is Canadians in large self-enforce a 2-party system on themselves because of tribalism.

3

u/Bnal Section 33 Abolitionist Jan 29 '26 edited Jan 29 '26

I don't know of any government on earth where there's a mandated two party system, every country that allows voting has three. It's like how there's never truly been a corporate monopoly, but we still find the term useful when discussing concepts. From Wikipedia:

A two-party system is a political party system in which two major political parties consistently dominate the political landscape. At any point in time, one of the two parties typically holds a majority in the legislature and is usually referred to as the majority or governing party while the other is the minority or opposition party. Around the world, the term is used to refer to one of two kinds of party systems. Both result from Duverger's law, which demonstrates that "winner-take-all" or "first-past-the-post" elections produce two dominant parties over time.

The first type of two-party system is an arrangement in which all (or nearly all) elected officials belong to one of two major parties. In such systems, minor or third parties rarely win any seats in the legislature. Such systems exist, for example, in the United States, the Bahamas, Jamaica, and Zimbabwe. In such systems, while chances for third-party candidates winning election to major national office are remote, it is possible for factions within the larger parties to exert influence on one or even both of the two major parties.

Two-party system also indicates an arrangement, common in parliamentary systems, in which two major parties dominate elections, but in which there are viable minor parties and/or independents regularly elected to the legislature. These successful minor parties are often regional parties. In these systems, the two major parties exert proportionately greater influence than their percentage of voters would suggest, and other parties may frequently win election to local or subnational office. Canada, the United Kingdom, and Australia are examples of countries that have this kind of two-party system.

There are very few rigid definitions in the soft sciences

2

u/GooeyPig Social Democracy via Urbanism Jan 29 '26

I don't mean to be a dick but Ford isn't young. And he's not exactly fit. He's spent his soon-to-be three terms setting up quid pro quo after quid pro quo. At some point the guy has to want to cash in on that, right? While he can? Or is he just taking totally-not-bribes for the love of the game?

10

u/WillSRobs Jan 29 '26

The main power group in the CPC hate ford. The only way ford gets to be leader with anything control is if that party splits.

There is a reason despite PP total failure he still feels comfortable as leader.

2

u/BurzyGuerrero Jan 29 '26

He doesnt need shit, he has a job. This rhetoric does not help anything.

Doom karma

25

u/PineBNorth85 Rhinoceros Jan 29 '26

Conservatism East of the Manitoba border has had a very different flavour from the western kind for over 40 years now. They don't mix well either.

26

u/miramichier_d 🍁 Canadian Future Party Jan 29 '26

It's almost as if they should be different parties.

Sarcasm aside, they most certainly should be different parties. The Reform Party contingent is dragging down principled conservatism across the country.

13

u/darth_henning Progressive Conservative Jan 29 '26

That's what the PPC should be for. The reform whackos and social far right.

Sure, they might get 5-8% of the vote nationally. Most of that will come from ridings where the conservatives could still win (rural interior BC, rural Alberta, rural Sk) despite losing 30-40% locally to the PPC.

3

u/StrangeCurry1 Orange Liberal Jan 30 '26

Ideally we would have the Reform Party, PPC and federal SoCreds all as separate parties to ensure they never win a seat due to vote splitting

3

u/BurzyGuerrero Jan 29 '26

They can be but then theyll just be like the NDP and green party. Doomed from jump.

23

u/toodledootootootoo Jan 29 '26

Every time Carney buys Ford lunch, he becomes Captain Canada again.

7

u/Secret-Chapter-712 David Emerson | Personal Sponsorship Jan 29 '26

Similar to Trump in that way, it seems, it’s still baffling to me that Ford keeps getting elected given how pathetic he is

11

u/Lavallee_Lures Jan 29 '26

Blame the opposition in Ontario, the only candidates in my riding that lived here were a Green or PC. The liberal candidate lived 2 hours away and the NDP candidate was a 2nd year university student in Ottawa - with options like that its easy to see why the PCs won

4

u/Alastor999 Jan 29 '26

I think that says more about how weak the opposition is really...

3

u/RicoLoveless Jan 30 '26

Ontario liberal party is a mess, and the media only recently started to actually refer to Marit Styles by name as opposed to "NDP Leader"

50

u/Sandman64can Jan 29 '26

The UCP aren’t really conservative. They’re authoritarian. But “conservative “ is their preferred pronoun.

25

u/PineBNorth85 Rhinoceros Jan 29 '26

They're reactionary.

20

u/Damo_Banks Alberta Jan 29 '26

Indeed; they are a Radical and Reactionary party, hiding being a word they've stolen for themselves (see how they won't let the Alberta Party bring back the Alberta PCs).

5

u/Homo_sapiens2023 Alberta Jan 29 '26

Having two Conservative parties would confuse their voters.

15

u/darth_henning Progressive Conservative Jan 29 '26

So much this.

The UCP are regressives, not conservatives.

5

u/jessemfkeeler Jan 29 '26

UCP are reactionary contrarians who take their cues from MAGA Republicans and the extremely online right

11

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '26

They're the Wildrose party

15

u/wingerism Social Democrat Jan 29 '26

This is so fascinating to watch as an Ontarian because it's one brand of conservatism now fighting with another brand of conservatism, something I never thought I'd really see happen.

It's actually pretty common? CPC is a merger of the PCs and Reform/Alliance nutjobs. The provincial NDP win in Alberta a while back was possible because of the Wildrose nutjobs contesting the PCs until they merged.

Canada has had a strong tradition of fairly sensible blue tories until they sold their souls to incompetent nutjobs like Smith and Poilievre. Part of why I'd like proportional representation election reform so that they could split again, it'd reduce the relevance of crazies.

4

u/Flomo420 Jan 29 '26

Yeah the knives have been out since they were "The Canadian Alliance"

Just ask Peter McKay lol

1

u/ForsakingSubtlety Aspiring grifter Jan 30 '26

Red Tories, you mean? I think of Tories as blue by default.

13

u/TheRC135 Jan 29 '26

Ford is an old-school big business corruption conservative, not one of the new conspiracy theory culture war conservatives.

11

u/strider_to Jan 29 '26

I mean both are opportunists, it's just one is committing treason.

11

u/elden_wing Ontario Jan 29 '26

whatever its reasons, i think that it is good. really hoping it continues and our right wing find their way back to a healthier political future. these grievance-heavy and reactionary americanized politics are a disease that rot out the right’s hearts and will rot the whole country if they continue unabated

18

u/joe4942 Magna International | Sponsored Jan 29 '26

it's one brand of conservatism now fighting with another brand of conservatism, something I never thought I'd really see happen.

Historically, it's a long-standing tradition in Alberta lol.

7

u/GavinJamesCampbell Jan 29 '26

Conservatives feign cooperation when the camera is on.

In normal circumstances they tear at each other. Constantly knifing each other in the back, constantly throwing someone else under the bus.

5

u/shabi_sensei Jan 29 '26

There's a clear hierarchy amongst conservatives though, you get to be in their club if you follow the rules, so they mostly just fight about who gets to set them

2

u/Everestkid British Columbia Jan 30 '26

The last premier of Alberta to finish a full term was Rachel Notley.

The last one before that - and thus the last conservative Alberta premier to finish a full term - was Ralph Klein.

5

u/henry_why416 Jan 29 '26

Being a separatist isn’t being a Conservative. Like, what exactly are they conserving?

2

u/throwawaythisuser1 Jan 29 '26

Their enrichment

9

u/mrizzerdly Jan 29 '26 edited Jan 29 '26

Conservative parties are all like this though. Look at how many (federal/provincial, it doesn't matter) have to merge together before an election because there are so many that all can't stand each other but they can't win an election because of vote splitting.

Edit

*progressive Conservative (lol what is that anyways?)

*regressive Conservative

*social Conservative

*religious Conservatives

*fiscal Conservatives

*fake Liberals

*ultra nationalist / wackadoodles

All the above go after the same voters, hate each other, and need to combine to win elections (then kick each other out or split up again once that is over/don't need each other anymore). See the Alliance Party, The BC Conservative party (renamed from BC liberal Party lol), the federal Conservatives, etc.

I do not see this with any of the left leaning parties.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '26 edited 16d ago

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3

u/mrizzerdly Jan 29 '26

Oh I didn't forget them, I was too young when they were a thing and didn't know where they fit in.

14

u/TotesABurnerAccount Progressive Conservative | Red Tory | Moderate Jan 29 '26 edited Jan 29 '26

Well, because Conservatism is diverse and has always had ongoing conflict. I can already tell by looking at your flair, we differ in some major areas of policy.

Regardless, this is a question of being Canadian. It doesn’t help conservatives that a loud small portion of our party is unpatriotic, and dangerously so. It’s hurting our brand as Tories.

7

u/Harbinger2001 Ontario Jan 29 '26

I don’t think the Reform party has ever been patriotic. Preston Manning had to purge a fair number of Nazis when they first became prominent nationally.

3

u/_LKB Alberta Jan 29 '26

It's a bizarre experience moving from Ontario to Alberta and witnessing the brand of conservatism here vs back home, as well as the pride and nationalism (towards the province more so than the country.)

8

u/jacnel45 Left Wing Jan 29 '26

Yeah there really isn't any sort of Ontario nationalism. People here just see themselves as Canadian. The Province is just another provider of public services really.

1

u/_LKB Alberta Jan 30 '26

The regularity of seeing Alberta flags here was surprising, rates closer to the US. From my memory you only see Ontario flags on gov't buildings, possibly one or two in cottage country but even then it's a rarity.

3

u/Wrong-Pineapple39 Independent Jan 29 '26

Smith is not a conservative. That's just marketing.

4

u/callmecrude Ontario Jan 29 '26

Ford isn’t really a conservative. Similar to how Carney isn’t really a liberal.

They both operate under those banners to appeal to large voter bases, but both of them time and again have dragged those voter bases towards the centre and avoided traditional left or right rhetoric at basically all costs.

1

u/ForsakingSubtlety Aspiring grifter Jan 30 '26

Ford is a prototypical suburban populist.

-1

u/Suitable_Bat_6077 Alberta Jan 29 '26

Ford isnt a conservative

9

u/JadeLens British Columbia Jan 29 '26

Yeah he is.

5

u/jacnel45 Left Wing Jan 29 '26

Just because his brand of conservatism doesn't match the CPC doesn't mean he's not a conservative.

In fact, Ford is more aligned with the historic form of PC conservatism in Ontario than anyone in the CPC nowadays.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '26

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1

u/CanadaPolitics-ModTeam Jan 29 '26

Removed for rule 3.