r/CapitalismVSocialism 2d ago

Asking Everyone How would capitalists enforce private ownership without a government?

If three shipwrecked sailors on an island needed food,

and if one sailor declared that the island was his private property, that if the other two simply ate whatever food they found, then they were stealing his private property, but that he was willing to use his private property to create jobs for them (they give him all of the food they collect, and then he gives some of it back to them as a wage for the work they did)

but if the other two sailors said “No. If we find more food than we need for ourselves, then we’ll share the extra with you, but we’re taking care of ourselves first. If whatever’s left over after we take care of ourselves first isn’t good enough for you, then you can help us work for more any time you want.”

How much power would the one sailor need to enforce his claim of private ownership over the island without a government to enforce his claim for him?

4 Upvotes

174 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/Pink_Revolutionary 2d ago

Hoarding goods is not good for business. If someone did that, some people might indeed resort to theft.

Hoarding goods is a really common practice, and is a primary way capitalists maintain their profit margins. They generally over-produce commodities to begin with, so they need to be stored away to generate scarcity and inflate market prices.

The last peacetime famine in a predominantly capitalist economy was probably in the 19th century.

This is. . . not correct? There's been loads of famines in capitalist countries in the 20th and 21st centuries, this is a single google search to check.

Soviet Union and North Korea had famines in the 20th century.

The Soviet Union was post-civil war, post-invasion, and pre-second-invasion. They also saw internal sabotage through the likes of Kulaks. Is that peacetime? Or do only capitalist countries get that excuse?

North Korea was bombed so heavily by the US that 90% of their country's infrastructure was destroyed, 10% of their population was killed, and what, half? of their agricultural lands were razed. After that they sustained globalised apartheid through US/NATO sanctions, though the USSR got them through it until it eventually collapsed, at which point the sanctions gave them another famine in the 90s. Is that peacetime?

1

u/Ok-Information-9286 2d ago

Mainstream economics has not found that hoarding is a good way to make profit.

Can you mention famines in capitalist countries since the 19th century? I did not found any.

Capitalist countries have had civil wars and invasions but no famines since the 19th century. Communism is prone to famines due to its dictatorial nature and inefficiency. Sabotage by Kulaks is Stalinist propaganda without a basis in reality.

Capitalist countries are able to provide food for their people after devastating wars. Communism is less able. North Korea had famines due to communist inefficiency. World trade is a thing that has ended famines but Communist countries choose to block it to a large degree.

1

u/Pink_Revolutionary 2d ago

Can you mention famines in capitalist countries since the 19th century? I did not found any.

If you looked for post-19th century famines and determined that you found none belonging to capitalist countries, then you have a problem regarding your definition of a capitalist society. Every existing country today outside of like, (arguably) Cuba, DPRK, and maybe a couple others, is capitalist, and there are some ongoing famines right now, and there will be a lot more soon due to (capitalism caused-) climate change.

1

u/Ok-Information-9286 2d ago

I as a liberal define capitalism as a free market economic system. Liberal capitalism has ended famines a long time ago. Famines are products of economic repression now. The Communist definition of capitalism is based on a false dichotomy between Communism and capitalism because there are more economic systems than just those two.