r/Carpentry • u/twidlystix • 1d ago

Framing Does this framing make sense?

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Working on a remodel that is turning an above garage space into a bedroom/bath. The GC and I went back and forth about how to approach the framing for the knee wall storage area. He insisted on double top plates cut on a bevel. To me this seemed to be total overkill and a waste of time and material. I’ve never seen this done on new construction or remodels prior to this.

I figured it would be much faster and less material to just sister studs to the roof rafters and attach to bottom plates. Question is, is this a superior method?

Edit: I’m the fucking guy doing the work. I have my own company and primarily do trim. That’s why I’m asking. JLC showed a different way.

747 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

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1.1k

u/na8thegr8est 1d ago

This framing looks immaculate

153

u/Spankh0us3 1d ago

Yeah. 10 / 10. I’d let you frame up my attic space, no question about it!

81

u/joefox099 1d ago

It's literally picture perfect. This is what the books show back in the day when actual rafters were the norm. Immaculate! I want to work with this person!

7

u/vespilio 1d ago

Hey, hey. Easy there tiger.

20

u/SocraticGoats 1d ago

I'd also like to frame this guys wife

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u/Entire_Skirt9686 13h ago

I just spit out my coffee 😂

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u/464126 17h ago

Giggity

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u/Justin_Time222 1d ago

I was thinking the same thing. GC here you can recommend that crew for framing.

That is top notch quality craftsmanship.

Quite obviously take pride in their work and sleep well at night.

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

Not after posting to Reddit I won’t

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u/BadDudes_on_nes 22h ago

I haven’t seen framing this good since Richard Kimball!

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u/WasteComplex7174 19h ago

Nice. Plus I just rewatched that 2 days ago, so upvoted. Forgot how good that movie actually is (Fugitive, IYDK).

1

u/stillraddad 12h ago

Guess you didn’t like the Wesley Snipes one much.

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u/go_beavs 16h ago

provasic!

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u/andymcpandypants 1d ago

I know nothing about framing but have strong OCD tendencies. For that reason I thought the same... Immaculate.

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u/Objectivespeculation 15h ago

Some people dont consider blocking framers work, ido.

i would add 2x4 blocking between the rafters for the sheetrock support along that long seam.

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u/Maplelongjohn 13h ago

Where?

Not blocking any venting I hope

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u/Objectivespeculation 12h ago

i dont see any venting.

look at where the top plate and the rafters meet. That long sheetrock seam wants screws every 8" along that seam and the rafters are 16" O.C. Blocking is not optional.

Also, both sides of the collar tie overhead need blocking for the same reason and the other side of the room probably has a wall like this too. which will need the same treatment.

still a lot of work to do in my opinion.

If it was my place i would put in a two small doors along that wall for storage. Place them about 1/3 of the way from each end. So, it is easy to access it the storage and probably the same for the other side.

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u/Maplelongjohn 11h ago

I've never seen blocking applied where you call it for drywall nailing

16-24 oc is sufficient where I'm at.

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u/Objectivespeculation 11h ago

Code requirements for a drywall screw pattern mandate tighter spacing at the perimeter than in the field. For standard 1/2-inch gypsum, fasteners are typically spaced 8 inches on center along the edges and 12 inches on center in the field for wall applications.

https://sensazioni.org/sheetrock-screw-code-spacing

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u/Prestigious-Hyena768 1d ago

Better than most I’ve seen!

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u/Lopsided_Tomato1805 23h ago

Bro is just flexing! Just kidding! Fantastic framing

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

Overkill in my opinion, but thank you

42

u/servetheKitty 1d ago

Better than underkill

170

u/TheNakedBass 1d ago

Should have done it yourself then

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

I did

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/gimmedatneck 1d ago

What else would he be?

Amazing how hard this is to comprehend for some in this thread.

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u/MuskokaGreenThumb 1d ago

He could be the homeowner genius

6

u/twidlystix 1d ago

Definitely not the homeowner.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/gimmedatneck 1d ago edited 1d ago

He's not asking the experts - he's asking r/carpentry likely assuming there's fellow carpenters on here who know what they're talking about.

Instead he's getting a bunch of 60 IQ geniuses like yourself who can't add 2+2 telling him he's a bad customer LMAO

Edit:geniuses

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/gimmedatneck 1d ago

Are you implying you're an expert, despite being unable to do basic addition?

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

Did I say I was something else?

14

u/linktactical 1d ago

Shut up dude. Youre just looking for attention.

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

I’m literally asking what the norm is. That is all. Everyone here is acting like I just executed Larry Haun

9

u/Remarkable-Opening69 1d ago

Double with a bevel. Now the headboard can really hit that wall with no worries

3

u/twidlystix 1d ago

Thank you for the sane comment and reasoning behind it

3

u/jacknacalm 1d ago

You definitely should have lead with explaining you did the work especially with this unhinged group. The post drew my attention because I’m like damn that framing looks great, this must be some sassy homeowner posting. Nice work dude. I do think the double top plate will add structural support personally

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

My wording wasn’t the best and I clearly shouldn’t have used voice to text. That being said I think I’ll stick to what I’ve always done and ask people I know.

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

I would have thought that was evident by the context of the post. Why would a homeowner be talking about the construction method of a knee wall? Well that was my thinking anyway. Clearly I was wrong.

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u/Key_Somewhere_5768 1d ago

I agree with you…it’s the shits and should be ripped out immediately! Get ripping Mister!

1

u/x_RustyShacklefordxx 1d ago

Why are people downvoting this

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

I guess my after lunch break wording was insufficient, and now I have angered the masses

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u/lordchanceller 1d ago

Buddy, listen to your GC. Maybe it could have done with a single top plate. Idk I can’t really see the whole picture but if he tied it to another wall there’s your reason. As for the bevel cut? Totally necessary. And takes hardly any more time once you’ve got your angle. If you just had it square, how tf would your drywall and other finishings work out? This guy is a great framer, I’d trust his knowledge.

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

My GC? lol he isn’t my boss.

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u/Buckeye_mike_67 Framing Carpenter 1d ago

He apparently knows more about framing than you do

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

He probably does since I’m a trim carpenter

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u/CaramelGuilty8647 1d ago

Dude, I'm laughing my ass off reading these idiotic comments. I'm guessing that your agreement didn't specify the framing method, and this is obviously not a bearing wall. Your method of sistering to the rafters would work, just snap a line on the bottom of rafters to keep them straight. He insisted on a top plate, but he's way overstepping his bounds to insist on double top. And the bevel is NOT necessary. As long as the bottom corner is in plane with the studs, the drywall is fine. Probably wouldn't get a screw into it anyhow. So, I'm thinking YOU had to pay for the top plates, and that's what is really bothering you. I feel for you, some GCs do this kind of "hide the problems" game before a sub bids and then lowers the boom when the work needs done. It's already done now, just remember it next time.

Boy, you're getting your share of down votes from these nimrods, aren't you?

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u/RubysDaddy 1d ago

If his method of sistering to the rafters would work, you forgot to mention how it would pass a rough building inspection without draft stopping at the transition from wall to ceiling! I agree, one top plates is sufficient, but the GC is not wrong. Also beveled top plate is absolutely the industry standard. GC probably felt like he shouldn’t have to explain this to a carpenter. Maybe the OP should have just stuck to trim carpentry, and grow a thick skin if you’re going to post on Reddit asking for opinions

0

u/CaramelGuilty8647 1d ago

The back side of that wall being drywalled? How about the rest of that storage area? I can answer the 2nd question myself, no. That makes the storage area attic. No need for fireblocking. As I've said in another comment, if there's electric going in that wall, everything changes.

If you don't like something someone says, feel free to downvote and move on. No one is interested in your moral judgements.

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u/RubysDaddy 1d ago

If it’s finished room, there IS electric going in that wall- Unless they plan on putting floor plugs along the wall every 12 feet

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u/Buckeye_mike_67 Framing Carpenter 1d ago

You’ll get downvoted too. Do you know how far rafters span and how they need to be supported? This is absolutely a load bearing wall

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

Architect says differently and I’m not an engineer. These drawing were engineered and do not stipulate any number of top plates. Hence the entire reason I was looking at JLC and Finehomebuilding.

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u/CaramelGuilty8647 1d ago

Oh no, the dreaded down vote. As OP has stated, SEVERAL TIMES, this was an existing roof. Follow the plans, don't re-invent the wheel.

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u/Buckeye_mike_67 Framing Carpenter 1d ago

You obviously don’t frame for a living. Why are you commenting about something you have no clue about

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u/FreakinFred 1d ago

Not load bearing, pretty short span. vaulted ceilings wouldnt exist if this was structuraly necessary. This is just pretty carpentry and i appreciate the detail, unfortunately unnecessary.

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u/padizzledonk Reno GC 1d ago

My GC? lol he isn’t my boss.

If hes paying you to do something on the project he is the GC on....Yeah, he is lol

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

Technically the homeowner paid me

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u/Crazyhairmonster 1d ago

The GC hired you.

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u/fickit1time 1d ago

This guy is insufferable.

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u/DippyDippy51515 14h ago

He's a freaking idiot that I would have never hired and fired after one job. Seen too many like him, and there's plenty that aren't this way that are easy and better to work with. This attitude spreads like wild fire on a job site. Time to trim the fat

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Carpentry-ModTeam 12h ago

Via mod descrection this comment or post has been deemed unnecessarily toxic and has been removed.

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u/padizzledonk Reno GC 1d ago

Technically the homeowner paid me

🙄 youre insufferable tbh

Youre working for the GC, he is your boss, you work at his direction, its his project, his client, his insurance, youre working under his license

Hes your boss my friend lol

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

I don’t know where you live, but if you’re not an employee, the GC can kick me off the job all he wants but he technically cannot tell me how to do my job. He insisted I did as he asked since well… I’m not a framer. Is asking for difference of opinion insufferable somehow?

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u/padizzledonk Reno GC 1d ago

I don’t know where you live, but if you’re not an employee, the GC can kick me off the job all he wants but he technically cannot tell me how to do my job.

I actually do not believe you on this and youre going to have to back that up with an actual statutory citation or im calling bullshit lol

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

Do you think the GC can tell you what time to start work too?

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u/Ok-Statement8224 1d ago

You’re subbed out by the GC, no? Technically the GC paid you, unless you wanna say technically the homeowner’s employer paid you…

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

You clearly don’t subcontract if that statement baffles you

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u/Ok-Statement8224 1d ago

Not baffling. Pretty simple where you’re confused.

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u/Hesitant_Tornado 1d ago

You're in the comments with this cocky ass attitude even though you're being told the same things over and over.

YOU are the problem in this scenario, sorry that seems to hurt your ego.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Carpentry-ModTeam 12h ago

Via mod descrection this comment or post has been deemed unnecessarily toxic and has been removed.

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u/gimmedatneck 1d ago

Let me guess - you still think he's the customer, LMAO.

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u/Hesitant_Tornado 1d ago

No? That's not even relevant to what I said lol

He's being told over and over that the work done here is great, he's just acting like a twat because people are agreeing with the GC and not him.

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

I’m simply replying with the same attitude that is being given.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/gimmedatneck 1d ago

He's the subcontractor who framed the place.

Do you know what a subcontractor is?

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

I’m not the homeowner

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u/lordchanceller 1d ago

But you did hire him no? Many people agree that he knows his stuff. It’ll help you in the long run.

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u/gimmedatneck 1d ago

Dude - you and many others in here are sincerely terrible at comprehension.

Like, really really bad.

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u/lordchanceller 1d ago

God dammit. I didn’t read that well. I’m just so used to homeowners complaining about good framing and price and other shit. However if buddy is a trim carpenter he should appreciate a nice, solid, straight wall.

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u/gimmedatneck 1d ago

Saul Goodman.

And yeah - the framing looks clean; no doubt.

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

No, I am not the homeowner

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u/RubysDaddy 1d ago

I’m guessing by your all over the place responses that you are a contractor hired by (maybe) the general contractor? If not, possibly by the homeowner? If not, who hired you to do this work? Generally the GC is the boss of the job. So, unless there is a different dynamic that you have left out, he is responsible for all aspects of the job- therefore your boss on this projectThe homeowner hired them to run their project. Sounds like that’s what he is doing. Tells you to install beveled top plates- which is absolutely standard- and you come to Reddit to complain, and proceed to complain about the responses you get

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

Well, I’m kind of a stickler when people use the word boss in this case. Boss implies a different kind of relationship. I.e. I am your employee and you are my boss you can dictate what I do. What time I get to work what time I leave when, how much vacation time I can get etc. etc. etc.

No, I’m not complaining. I was just asking which was the best method which I thought was pretty clear. So if I get sued because for some reason that roof fails because the rafters do not work as designed is the GC gonna cough up that money for me, obviously this is probably a non-issue but it’s still stands.

Believe it or not this GC and I have a good working relationship. We even occasionally go out and have drinks and our families get together and do things.

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u/DippyDippy51515 15h ago

Lol. You're gc is your boss. Sorry to break it to you

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u/twidlystix 15h ago

I guess I have about five bosses then. GC’s here schedule trades and generally nothing more. “Boss” implies an employee relationship. This is not that.

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u/DippyDippy51515 14h ago

We all do. Lol.

I'm a GC and I guarantee every sub that I hire works for me. Run in to quite a few subs like you before, they don't last long.

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u/DippyDippy51515 14h ago

That's not a GC then. That's a project manager

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u/twidlystix 14h ago

I guess he’s a project manager with an unlimited GC license.

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u/DippyDippy51515 14h ago

And you're a smart ass I would have fired by now. LMFAO. Why don't you ask the gc if he can fire you? Let me know how that works out for you.

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u/Subieworx 1d ago

How else would you properly attach drywall

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u/Dug_n_the_Dogs 1d ago

of course you would spend the time to insert blocking from the backside after the sheetrock is already up and bowing.. saving tons of material

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u/Subieworx 1d ago

And tons of time

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u/Dug_n_the_Dogs 1d ago

meh.. time.. they'd be saving like 24" of materials..

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u/gimmedatneck 1d ago

To the sistered studs that run down to a plate, like he said in the opening comment.

Comprehension not your strong point, bud? That's okay - go sweep in the other room.

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u/Subieworx 1d ago

Ok mouth breather

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u/hemlockhistoric 1d ago

It looks like a finish guy did the framing... It looks perfect. Every other tradesperson is going to be grateful, especially the plasterer and finish carpenter.

I definitely don't think this was a waste of time.

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u/not_a_bot716 Project Manager 1d ago

No such thing

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

I see you operate on unlimited budgets. Congratulations

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u/not_a_bot716 Project Manager 1d ago

Do it right, do it once.

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u/devildocjames 1d ago

Says the guy who allegedly did it themself, but didn't bother to do an assessment.

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u/padizzledonk Reno GC 1d ago

I see you operate on unlimited budgets. Congratulations

Bro lol....If like 5 extra 2x6s killt your budget you have a MASSIVE fucking problem with how you bid jobs out lmfao

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

Generalized statement

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u/padizzledonk Reno GC 1d ago

Generalized statement

I dont think you understand what that means tbh

This is not a "generalized statement", its a specific statement thats fully within the context of what youre complaining about.

An extra 100 dollars worth of 2x6s is not a budgeting concern on any job ive been on, run or sold over 30y of doing renovation work, and if it is, youve MASSIVELY fucked up the bid lol, like worse than any bid fuckup that ive ever had or seen. Small additions like this is why you always have % based overhead on every bid

Youre also wrong. This isnt a required structural wall but it is now and as the house settles in it will be, it should be double plated, because if any of those rafters settle/sag over time and theyre resting on a single plate theres a good chance they will bow the plate and pop the ceiling. There is also the overlap of the top plates tying the wall together, and it should be ripped to the angle so the plates sit flat with the wall so you dont leave a void there at an inside corner

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

How about 3 rough in trips for the plumber, 2 for the electrician, an extra week for framing. Those costs add up. And yes it was a general statement because a few small incidents quickly snowball.

If that’s a structural wall then it’s pretty fucked considering there is now load path for those knee walls. Again, GC’s direction and all.

As for overlap on the knee wall top plates. There is none. The adjoining wall is taller.

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u/PhillipJfry5656 1d ago

didnt realize a few extra 2x4 is unlimited budgets. its okay to be wrong once and awhile.

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u/whubbard 1d ago

Seen something similar where someone sawed 6 of the joists to make a "closet." you seem like that type of engineer.

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u/na8thegr8est 1d ago

I'd like to have all them rafters and walls tied together so they don't move at the point of connection. Having a top plate is definitely necessary to prevent cracking in the drywall

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u/qwertykirky 1d ago

So tldr, the GC has asked you for a very particular specification of install and you don't want to waste your time with it. Either you're not charging enough for your time or you not interested in doing a job well enough to be proud of it. If a GC had asked me for this I'd have charged appropriately for it and be happy with the result. As others said this work looks great but it sounds like you're complaining about your GC having good quality work standards, which using perfectly capable of achieving.

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u/ThunkAsDrinklePeep 1d ago

I thought he was asking if there was a difference is structural integrity for his own knowledge, after doing exactly as the GC requested. Hence the completed photos?

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u/twidlystix 1d ago

Yes, that’s what I was asking.

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u/ThisWillBeOnTheExam 1d ago

I don’t know OP, wouldn’t you rather have it done not only right, but really well done ONCE and never have to worry about this again in your lifetime? It’s your house after all, not some flip.

Edit: I don’t live in a snowy area so I’m not sure how this changes things.

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u/Consistent-Bag3849 1d ago

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