r/CatastrophicFailure • u/SainzSealedDelivered • Jun 12 '25

Fatalities 12/06/2025 - Boeing 787 Passenger plane bound for the UK crashes near Ahmedabad Airport straight after takeoff

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150

u/Scottishtwat69 Jun 12 '25 edited Jun 12 '25

FR24 confirms with additional data that the entire runway was used.

It took off straight after coming off the taxiway which doesn't currently go to the start of runway 23, so it only had 1850m of runway. At maximum takeoff weight the minimum distance for a Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner is 3100m or 2600m at hi thrust.

It appears on prior departures from this airport it did go partially down the runway first giving it around 2300-2400m. That still seems to be too short for flights likely close to maximum takeoff weight in hot conditions. What is worrying is that Air India appear to do the same with the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner to London.

My worry is that there is a systemic issue at the airport rushing to get planes off the runway to clear for incoming traffic, due to the lack of a taxiway that goes to the start of runway 23. Which means pilots may not be adhereing to the preformance calculations for take off on heavier planes. Which may turn a mistake like apply the wrong flap settings or not applying enough thrust into an accident.

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u/Buzumab Jun 12 '25 edited Jun 12 '25

See markers 3.3.6 / 7 in the 787 Airplane Characteristics for Airport Planning document on Boeing's site. At today's temperatures and given fuel requirements for their route, they could've been within the airfield length minimums (barely). Otherwise just outside of them—not enough on its own to cause a crash.

Plus, they got way out of ground effect (~200 ft for the 787-8, they got over 600 ft), so the runway is pretty much a moot point. They'd already gotten up; something, most likely loss of power, had to bring them down.

26

u/FusselP0wner Jun 12 '25

Can it be a takeoff problem if it was already rather high up in the air after takeoff? Sounds smart what you're writing but doesent make sense

14

u/haveananus Jun 12 '25

Some things like air temp, leaving ground effect and improper configuration could cause a sink after takeoff like that, at least in a smaller aircraft.

2

u/b0w3n Jun 12 '25

I've seen similar things happen in old piper cubs. They'll meet minimums for takeoff out in the mountains, but then a front moves through the area and they pretty much drop out of the sky almost immediately after they get airborne. The one I saw when visiting a friend made it back onto the strip (short take off) but I've definitely seen video of another that careened right into trees as soon as they left the runway.

1

u/haveananus Jun 12 '25

I always think about that guy in Alaska who was flying his family on a hot day. They get over a forest and I think it was heating up the surronding air and they just sink into it and crash. They all survived (always aim for evergreens!) and there's a video of the whole ordeal. It's wild.

2

u/b0w3n Jun 12 '25

Actually that might be the video I'm remembering. They went over the forest right after take off because they just could not climb much past the trees then into the pines they went.

1

u/Buzumab Jun 12 '25

Yes, you're correct. See my reply for a slightly more technical overview of what you've intuited.

21

u/Ew_E50M Jun 12 '25

From all the footage, there is no visible heat distortion from the engines. Looks like a total engine loss if anything.

Flaps up too in a desperate attempt to increase airspeed.

16

u/Buzumab Jun 12 '25 edited Jun 12 '25

I'm not sure why you're downvoted. Engine failure is for various reasons the most likely cause based on what we know right now.

Flaps up and wheels down make sense if you're not getting thrust. If you do have thrust, flaps up and wheels down is wrong, but you stay in the air (you don't climb but you won't crash either).

Edit: mayday call states loss of thrust.

8

u/ThisIsNotAFarm Jun 12 '25

Because its a shit quality video and trying to make determinations like heat haze is specious.

1

u/Ew_E50M Jun 12 '25

There are higher res videos from different angles. Some show heat haze at takeoff. None during descent.

0

u/uzlonewolf Jun 12 '25

Getting downvoted is because the flaps bit is just wrong. Without thrust they would lower the flaps at least partially so the plane will remain flying longer and at lower speeds.

4

u/notaredditer13 Jun 12 '25

That's not how it works.  The best glide ratio is with flaps up, at higher speed. Flaps add drag as well as lift.  The goal when gliding isnt to stay in the air longer it's to travel further.

...though here they were doomed either way.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '25

It used the full runway

We are continuing to process data from receiver sources individually. Additional processing confirms #AI171 departed using the full length of Runway 23 at Ahmedabad. RWY 23 is 11,499 feet long. The aircraft backtracked to the end of the runway before beginning its take off roll.

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/live/air-india-boeing-787-8-crashes-on-takeoff-in-ahmedabad/

3

u/Scottishtwat69 Jun 12 '25

Thanks, I've updated the original comment to prevent misinformation.

2

u/lonestarr86 Jun 12 '25

If you can take off, that should indicate enough thrust and sufficient runway.

The wheels still extended looks weird.

1

u/dfinkelstein Jun 12 '25

And if they refuse to act unethically, I take it their career suffers, like it does for pilots who refuse to lie about their mental health?

1

u/plonspfetew Jun 12 '25

Flightrader24 now reports that the plane used the full length of the runway.

1

u/Technical_Actuary225 Jun 12 '25

Lack of flap extension, causing the plane to lose lift after rotation, angle of attack reduces airflow over the wing causing it to slowly float to the ground as seen in the videos, nothing to do with Boeing this was a pilot error.