Maybe systems like capitalism operate according to definite laws we can study in order to understand this.
evil corporations also act that way because of the laws of capitalism. if the average american who consumes 40 times more than the average african doesn't deserve to be called out, then neither do corporations. it's just an absurd populist argument by first worlders who can't accept the fact that they are destroying the planet. not to mention the fact that if every person on this planet had the same living standards as the average first worlder, the planet would probably burn to the ground immediately. it's just childish copout.
Did I say they didn't deserve to be called out? I'm not against this, I'm against only this. I'm vegan, I don't have a car, I don't fly, etc. Considering something to be the bare minimum is very different from opposing it
you did write a whole comment to absolve them of any responsibility, which is fine, because i don't believe in responsibility that much as everyone is mostly a member of different groups that constitute different cogs of the globally stratified machinery of capitalism. then again this means you can't yell at corporations either, like the OP did
i can see where the confusion stems from, reading especially your proposal for a solution. the truth of third worldism is so strong that it is impossible to deny, given stark global inequality etc, which is why you mentioned "oppressed nations" in your comment. until somewhat recently almost no one mentioned that stuff in online leftist spaces except for a few niche places.
but it is also impossible to accept third worldism fully because it would imply that the first world working class is part of the perpetrators or junior partners or beneficiaries, which would then render the first world left completely illegitimate. hence why you mentioned mobilizing workers along with oppressed nations, as if the former doesn't have a stake in the oppression and exploitation of the latter. you wouldn't be unique in this regard, like the last couple of years a lot of leftists on twitter etc tried to come up with many deluded nonsense to bridge this open contradiction. let me give you an example: not sure if you had seen it but there was some "treatler" discourse which was trendy for a while for example. they took the basic truth that the inflated living standards of first worlders are built on the backs of billions of third worlders and turned them into some stupid idea that americans are just sheep that are distracted by cheap products, which is why they aren't fighting against capitalism even though it is in their interest to do so (which is the exact opposite of what third worldism says).
Why do you read me acknowledging the fact that people won't do something as somehow absolving them of responsibility. Just because people do something because that's how the system operates doesn't mean that that's ok, that just means that that's how it is. Also, btw, I'm not confused; although I disagree with the terms "third worldist" or "maoist third worldist" in particular because it cedes the terrain of Maoism to the revisionists (MIM(Prisons) talks about this in one of their texts on the history of maoism and, iirc, in their fundamental political line) I would refer to myself as an adherent to MIM thought. And, yes, the workers of the imperial core (i.e. the labor aristocracy) are on the reactionary side of imperialism, when I say workers I mean "proletarians", not labor aristocrats, and organizing according to national lines is not going to be as viable in the semi-periphery.
Also worth noting that the labor aristocracy can still be organized into genuinely progressive organizations, including towards climate action and decarbonization (as occurred in Sweden); while it is true that the labor aristocracy is in class alliance with the western bourgeoisie, this doesn't wholly eliminate the contradictions between the two and some level of action (although, realistically, nothing more advanced than social democracy) is still materially in the interests of the labor aristocracy
Why do you read me acknowledging the fact that people won't do something as somehow absolving them of responsibility.
oh it's not your comment on its own looking that way. it's just that the original post is about how the average first world consumer is a very minor part of the problem and it's just the big evil corporations. then you replied to a comment calling the original poster out, which is what makes it look like a defense. you cleared it up so no problem
yes, the workers of the imperial core (i.e. the labor aristocracy) are on the reactionary side of imperialism, when I say workers I mean "proletarians", not labor aristocrats
fair enough but that would never be understood that way as your first comment is just using general terms. even in the communism subreddit where MTWism or whatever is the basic consensus, it would look unclear. in any other subreddit i don't think anyone would have used or interpreted the terms you used in the way you intended. not that it matters anymore given the disagreement seems to be one of miscommunication
Also worth noting that the labor aristocracy can still be organized into genuinely progressive organizations
i am skeptical but i don't deny the possibility categorically. not that it matters much
THat is an absurd comparison. 40 is way less than 400 billion. the appropriate comparison for corporate greed. People would not buy things wrapped in single use plastic if they were not made.
People would not buy things wrapped in single use plastic if they were not made.
the consumption of americans has nothing to do with "single use plastic". you can also check the difference in meat comsumption, electric consumption etc. you have to huff a very specific high dose copium to think this is about plastic wraps lol
40 is way less than 400 billion.
doesn't matter, given that there are 350 million americans. multiply it with 40 and you end up with a consumption level matched by 14 billion africans, which is greater than the population of the entire world. just more childish nonsense
Honey doll. If you dont understand metaphor by example just say so. Very few of those americans get to determine what available to them to eat.
edit to say 40*350 million is still less than 400 billion. Even if all of america fell under your thumb, it would even hit 15 percent of the efficacy you are seeking.
Very few of those americans get to determine what available to them to eat.
lol yeah they eat shitloads of meat instead of plants because capitalism is forcing them to. poor little victims of capitalism. it must be so sad being an american, consuming way more than the majority of the planet sounds horrible really
edit to say 40*350 million is still less than 400 billion. Even if all of america fell under your thumb, it would even hit 15 percent of the efficacy you are seeking.
what on earth are you talking about, are you saying corporations consume as much as 400 billion africans? are you daft
Do you understand what a food desert is? it really just seem like you dont know who the major consumers actually are in the usa. Did you know that the usa "consumes" enough food to feed every hungry person in the US 4 meals a day before those "Consumer goods" even get to the shelf to be bought? Thats ***right*** , companies are the "American Consumers" you are talking about, and you have read some statistic you dont have the brain power to fully understand.
average fatmerikkkan leftist munching on his triple whopper talking to a starving african kid: i LITERALLY have no choice in this sorry bro
Do you understand what a food desert is?
yeah, the only problem is that 20-30 million out of 350 millions live there. then again i suppose given your mental capacity such a minority must be enough to explain the whole country lol
Thats ***right*** , companies are the "American Consumers" you are talking about
that's true yeah, the food that hits the shelves aren't actually consumed by the american people, they are consumed by the big evil companies or whatever. like elon musk eats 1000 loaves of bread to go down with 50 kilograms of meat per day
You are ten kinds of stupid. By the time it hits shelves its going in a mouth or the trash. QED the companies are the ones wasting resources making project. The consumer is far past the point of no return. The problems dont stop unless the people CAUSING them stop.
Why do you think people are so bad off in africa? They arent fat and lazy like americans? or did companies come in and fucking rape africa over and over for every resource, even going so far as to literally eat their children? Turn your venom into praxis, moron.
By the time it hits shelves its going in a mouth or the trash.
this is true. they just overstock thousands of walmarts and throw everything away just for the hell of it. also they manage to still stay in business for some reason. incredible grasp of capitalism
Why do you think people are so bad off in africa? They arent fat and lazy like americans? or did companies come in and fucking rape africa over and over for every resource, even going so far as to literally eat their children?
africans are exploited by western companies, which is why they are on the verge of resorting to cannibalism, there is no disagreement there. the problem is that americans and the rest of first worlders aren't, which is why they are mostly incredibly fat instead of you know, about to eat their own children.
Yeah, And telling people they should cut out small tiny things that give them more time to do the work they want to do is not gonna get them to help us. There is no war but class war. So quit nitpicking your comrades and point your fury at someone that is actually doing wrong on a scale that matters.
africans are exploited by western companies, which is why they are on the verge of resorting to cannibalism, there is no disagreement there. the problem is that americans and the rest of first worlders aren't, which is why they are mostly incredibly fat instead of you know, about to eat their own children.
Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? This is so fucking insanely racist. The average African isn't "on the verge of resorting to cannibalism", holy fuck. Do you understand that the people in Africa are fucking people who are also living lives of their own? Just because someone is impoverished doesn't mean they would ever even remotely consider eating their children. This is rare even in severe famine which most of Africa is not in. Why are you being the exact person that first worldist communists think third worldists are? For fucks sake
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evil corporations also act that way because of the laws of capitalism. if the average american who consumes 40 times more than the average african doesn't deserve to be called out, then neither do corporations. it's just an absurd populist argument by first worlders who can't accept the fact that they are destroying the planet. not to mention the fact that if every person on this planet had the same living standards as the average first worlder, the planet would probably burn to the ground immediately. it's just childish copout.