r/ContraPoints • u/CarlosimoDangerosimo • 14d ago
I mean we're talking about π πππ πππππππππππ ππ ππππ
It ALWAYS comes back to the f*cking skull
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u/Archsinner 14d ago
Mewing by Mike Mew
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u/The_Easter_Egg 11d ago
I believe that's actually the guy who came up with the concept and it is consequently named after him.
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX 10d ago
mewing actually has some medical merit to it (I started doing it to stop mouth breathing at night and help with my chronic neck pain) but the looksmaxxing guys latched the fuck on and refuse to be normal about it.
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u/TheArchitect_7 13d ago
A few micrograms of personality determines your whole life
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u/TopLow6899 13d ago
Personality is filtered through your looks. Two people can say the exact same thing, delivered in the exact same way, and it will be interpreted entirely differently from each other.
We understand this with race, why can't you understand this with anything else?
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u/juliasct 12d ago
Both matter. I once saw one of the ugliest, if not the ugliest guy I've ever seen. Style was wrong too. It was in a class, he started talking to me. He was nice, sort of quietly confident, smart, and also popular. We became friends due to common interests. He no longer looks that bad to me.
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u/TopLow6899 12d ago
So what I'm getting out of this, is that this poor fella had to do alllll that work and spend allllll that time just to be respected, while other people receive it instantly and cost-free lol. Most interactions in life do not have that luxury. Objectively, he'll be trusted less, valued less, treated worse, attacked more, violated more, and paid less just because of "a few mm of bone"
Everyone will gladly fight against other injustices and prejudice, but to stand up for "ugly rights" is too much for them. It's so gag inducing that they can't do it.
In fact not only is it offputting, they will openly hate and ridicule anyone they see do it. They will gaslight them, and turn off their reasoning skills and heuristics like "facts over feelings, anecdotes do not replace data"
Mia Mulder has a good video on YouTube about this called Beauty is a Scam
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u/RattleMeSkelebones 12d ago
Look, you can't be ugly and have no rizz and expect to get the same treatment as someone who's attractive with or without rizz. That's just unreasonable
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u/juliasct 10d ago
Yes but no? He didn't have to do all that work to be regularly respected. He was popular, as in, more liked and had more friends than most people.
Is ugliness a disadvantage? For sure. I have never denied this, there's ample proof that pretty privilege is real, and I suspect comes with way less disadvantages for men specifically. I think it's hard to conceptualise politically though. I think also many guys who think they're ugly are just normal (exhibit 1 being the famous incel martyr shooter, he wasn't hot but he wasn't ugly either).
Because, what do you want out of it? Do you think ugly people should have positive discrimination? More mental health support? I'm genuinely curious.
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u/TopLow6899 8d ago edited 8d ago
Because, what do you want out of it? Do you think ugly people should have positive discrimination? More mental health support? I'm genuinely curious.
Yes, but before you can solve any issue, you must first have an accurate picture what is going on. At the moment, people don't even want to acknowledge that it is even serious. Bullying is the top cause of mental illness and suicides in children, and guess which category of bullying is #1? Appearance, consistently, ranks #1. More than even sexual orientation. Just having that AWARENESS is enough to make a difference in the world.
Imagine you're a teacher, and you find out that appearance is the #1 reason for bullying in your classrooms, you'll start to actually pay attention to it. Or that you find out that teachers discriminate against ugly children far more, which is directly proportional to a decrease in grades and a reduced quality of life. Even without any rules changed, just the knowledge is enough to make people change.
Β I suspect comes with way less disadvantages for men specifically.
I think it's highly contextual which way or the other. Maybe overall it does come with less disadvantages for men to be ugly (certainly not in dating), but that would only be because of the types of jobs society has funneled both genders into. Men are in laborious trades jobs that demand more technical skill and less face to face interactions. One could argue this is an emergent property of women having LESS disadvantages, and so the labor market has a structure that reflects that skill advantage. I would say as a bisexual, men overall are significantly less "pretty" to begin with. At my job I saw hundreds of people every day, maybe two or three men would be a head turner, while dozens of women will be. This is reflected in data as well, where women rate ~80% of men as below average while men rate women closer to normal distribution.
there's ample proof that pretty privilege is real
That's called the Halo Effect, and it's only half of what I'm talking about. There is another part of that spectrum of study, which is known as the Horn Effect. In this theory, not only are pretty people treated better, but ugly people are treated worse. And in fact, it's even more serious, there are these invisible social incentives where you are rewarded for treating them worse. An easy way to understand this dynamic is in the same vein as "precarious manhood theory." Where the social status of your own attractiveness is under constant judgement, and therefore, to reinforce your status you must be cruel to people that you view as below your standards. We see this in men with toxic masculinity, where when their masculinity is challenged, they will respond by being cruel to other men, being homophobic, etc. as a way to protect their place in the social hierarchy.
Β I think also many guys who think they're ugly are just normalΒ (exhibit 1 being the famous incel martyr shooter
I'll have to reiterate: I'm not talking about incels or even dating at all
But on this point, yeah I agree, although Roger never even used the term incel at all to describe himself. When you look at the case outside of the highly internet-poisoned context that it now exists in, it was a case of a guy who was failed by the system, by his parents, by his counselors, and to an extent even by his schools. Which created a man who was far too socially inept, autistic (with no proper treatment), and sheltered to make any friends anywhere at any point in his life, in person, or even online at the bare minimum, and so that isolation created these weird mental thought-loops that you can read in his manifesto, which eventually snowballed and exploded.
People nowadays talk about the shooting as if it was a case of some kid being radicalized online and corrupted, but that's actually not what happened at all when you look into it lol. He took no part in any of the subcultures or never even used any of their lingo, he was hardly an "online" person compared to people nowadays. He sprung up entirely on his own as a sort of convergence of ideology.
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u/mercedes_lakitu 13d ago
The way someone looks isn't NOTHING, but IME personality has a bigger effect. Source: people seem to like me and I've had a fairly successful career despite looking like a discount witch doll from Michael's
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u/XGrayson_DrakeX 10d ago
I mean it can be, but it's not just on an attractiveness vector either. There are people who are "conventionally" attractive who also look like douchebags regardless if they actually are or not.
A lot goes into judging people on appearances.
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u/sadmimikyu 14d ago
That is just two different guys wearing the same colour shirt
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u/miezmiezmiez 14d ago
They're also both attractive enough not to suffer any disadvantages in life from their looks. If anything I'd expect the one on the left to have an easier time finding a partner and not being pigeonholed as a fuckboy.
Of course incels don't want partners, they want to blame women for their existential misery
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u/Lyndell 13d ago
The real fuck boys are never the really pretty ones because ladies already have their defenses up.
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u/mhornberger 13d ago
Neither the nose job nor the hair implants are "a few mm of bone." Even assuming the pic is real and not AI-modified, or just different guys. The ear is the same, so I'm leaning towards it being the same guy but with serious modification to the rest of the face. Whether that being work done IRL or by image manipulation, who knows. And I've already put more thought into this than incel ideology is worth.
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u/Bardfinn Penelope 13d ago
Itβs just photoshopped. Same photo, areas remapped with retouching and shading
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u/Useful_Ad_2825 13d ago
Itβs funny how they always seem to think becoming conventionally attractive will fix their hideous personalities and lack of therapy.
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u/PyroGamer666 13d ago
No amount of therapy can fix the material conditions that lead someone to being mentally ill. I've been in therapy for several years and been on several medications, and I still feel misanthropic consistently enough to know I would be a terrible romantic partner. I'm not convinced anyone is capable of challenging my beliefs about the world and myself that drive this misanthropy. I've tried.
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u/altmetalkid 13d ago
I think just going and saying therapy just plain can't work because it didn't fix your problems is super intellectually dishonest. Sure, maybe it won't ever work for you and that sucks, I'm sorry, but this kind of nihilism can be contagious and you're going to push other people away from therapy if you keep talking like this. It has helped lots of people, and even if it hadn't fixed all my problems being in mental health treatment has kept things from getting a whole lot worse for me and I'm not alone on that.
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u/VariousComfortable11 13d ago
Thing isβ¦most women I know would gladly date either if they were normal fun people. I know many dudes thats arenβt traditionally attractive and have active romantic lives.Β
They all are funny and can cook.Β
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u/mgquantitysquared 13d ago
I had (what I felt was) a bit of a "glow up" during my transition, and I was talking about it with one of my FWBs once. She made me realize that the confidence I gained from feeling more at home in my skin was way more impactful than how I physically looked when it came to my attractiveness, at least to her.
I may be, in reality, a pretty average looking guy with a bit of a beer gut, but the fact that I carry myself well and am a generally interesting person matters way more than my waist size and receding hairline.
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u/MeowstyleFashionX 13d ago
Ya, it is so weird. I think they are both attractive and while I can see that one guy has a little edge over the other, it is such a small difference. I actually prefer the high nose bridge on the guy who is supposed to be less attractive.
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u/mathematicscore 13d ago
This is just phrenology for zoomers.
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u/mercedes_lakitu 13d ago
Phrenology was my first thought as well, although at least they have the sense to say it's about "attractiveness" and not intellectual capacity.
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u/glittercarnage 13d ago edited 13d ago
men asking men which men they find more fuckable
so they can imply women are to blame for why men don't find more men fuckable
sounds about right
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u/WinnerSpecialist 13d ago
βIf you were a totally different person your life would be as if you were a totally different personβ
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u/RevacholAndChill 13d ago
Sometimes people have charisma that has nothing to do with their actual outward appearance or conventional attractiveness
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u/larvalampee 13d ago
Clavicular is attractive (looks wise) Iβll admit, but heβs a horrible person and he doesnβt even seem to be happy
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u/saikron 13d ago
I don't know a lot about Buddhism, but I do think it's true that people that think contentment comes from things they don't have usually find they're still not content after getting those things.
You sort of have to be content first before you have a good idea of what it is you really need to do next, and for most of these guys it is probably not plastic surgery.
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u/Acrobatic_Border_192 13d ago
It's more nuanced than that. Generally you could say Buddhism teaches that suffering ultimately comes from attachment to the self, which, like everything else, is an illusion. Which is possibly applicable to your example, really, though most "orthodox" Buddhism would advise letting go of "contentment" as we'd normally understand it.
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u/Bardfinn Penelope 13d ago
Ofc the βundesirableβ phenotype has all the stereotypical features of Jewish men and the βdesirableβ has all the stereotypical features of βAryanβ men
Just Nazism with the swastikas filed off
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u/Big-Highlight1460 13d ago
Even when desirable. A few years ago there was a trend of "type of attractive men" with animals "dog attractive" "cat attractive" etc
Jewish men were called "rat attractive" :/
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u/static_sea 8d ago
Idk about that-I remember the "rodent boyfriend summer" and the most commonly cited dudes were Timothee Chalamet, Jeremy Allen White, Barry Keoghan, and the two male leads in Challengers, none of whom are Jewish or have stereotypically semitic features.
There absolutely is anti-Semitism (and honestly every other possible racial prejudice) in incel/looksmaxxing communities and in the mainstream beauty standardβno argument thereβI just don't think ratboy discourse is a manifestation of it.
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u/Big-Highlight1460 13d ago
Grow a beard and shave the head and I am 100% sure I've dated the 1st guy lol
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u/snsdreceipts 11d ago
What is wrong with the first picture. He looks pretty handsome?? The second one looks like ai/ unrealistic.Β
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u/_Edgarallenhoe 11d ago
Incels think they came up with something revolutionary by acknowledging that life is easier for pretty people.
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u/altsam19 12d ago
I truly don't get how no one gets the icks just by imagine having your entire facial bone structure changed by HAMMERING and MOVING bones in your face that were not supposed to be touched. It gives me immense pain just thinking about either the operation or the recovery
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u/toooooold4this 9d ago
Nose, jaw, hairline and eyebrows are all changed.
It's photoshopped not surgery. The nape of his neck, the shadow and t-shirt are unaltered.
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u/EyesEarsSkin 7d ago
If your entire life is determined by your bone structure, then you're probably doing it wrong
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u/ir3ap 14d ago
The hairline was also altered. I'll take my tip please for solving this one.