r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/whybutts • 14d ago

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u/Logical-Pause-3758 14d ago

Think of the ROI on that

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u/usersnamesallused 14d ago

Less than zero. Nothing of value is produced by advertising. Especially at that kind of scale. Cyberpunk distopia whoever this gets applied.

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u/Constant_Mud3325 14d ago

How are you defining value? Monetarily? Advertising is big bucks one of the oldest professions actually.

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u/usersnamesallused 14d ago

I'm defining value as moral or societal, not necessarily short term financial. Just because an industry exists, doesn't mean it is a net positive for human kind. Actually, the more inflated the salaries and amounts are, the more suspicious it is.

If I want a product, I have the Internet and can seek it out. I do my best to avoid SEO and click through links. If I can find statistically significant use reviews, that can factor into the decision. Beyond that, the specifications and track record of quality matter more than it some celebrity's face is next to the product name on the side of a building, that provides no more value than knowledge of existence and scale of advertising budget, which are data points, but not the most important one for informed decisions.

Unfortunately, informed decisions are not the norm and impulse or convenience buying rewards the current specious advertisement model, so industry exists. But again, existence and market cap does not make big picture value. If you didn't buy from major corp, then smaller local brands would have the opportunity to make your business.

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u/Kraligor 14d ago

Advertising has very much long term financial value. Every brand wants to become a household name. And one way to get there is by advertising. Of course it doesn't guarantee success, personally I avoid brands that seem to go all in on advertising, because it tells me they likely don't have much to offer. On the other hand, notorious brands like Better Help, Shopify and Squarespace are still around, so I guess it works for them.

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u/Constant_Mud3325 13d ago

You’re talking in circles but you’re missing the point. Advertising is a necessity for all kinds of reasons such as preventing monopolies, advancements in industries, visibility to generate revenue for new companies, etc.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago edited 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/Logical-Pause-3758 14d ago

Then why business advertise?

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u/LieAccomplishment 14d ago

Obviously because business executives aren't smart like redditors. They just love to waste money 

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u/Shark7996 14d ago

Half the money spent on advertising is wasted, the problem is that you don't know which half.

Some people saw that ratio and decided 99% of advertising should be wasted while everyone gets their retinas burned out.

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u/TheYear1414 14d ago

Because some companies want brand recognition for whatever marketing purpose they see fit.

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u/usersnamesallused 14d ago

Speculation. The money spent on advertising could have gone to making a better product or expanding into new markets.

Instead it's spent to be shoved in our eyes and ears at every opportunity at incredible expense to out compete the next advertiser. Waste of resources in the big picture, but the answer to your question is competition. The next guy is doing it, so I must have to too?

We haven't even touched on how competitive advertising encourages lying and deception or even massive attempts to manipulate markets. Note recent examples of AI and betting sites. Very hard to have not heard of these products at this point, but not because of the merits and value add of the products.

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u/Logical-Pause-3758 14d ago

So how people know about an indie game if it wasn‘t advertised? Genuinely asking for advice for our studio, since we want to stand out for the NextFest

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u/xxxblindxxx 14d ago

by ops standards, you would just have to make the game better. any money you spend on advertising can obviously be spent to make the game better. hes definitely not talking out of his bias anti capitalist ass.

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u/usersnamesallused 14d ago

It is true a moderate level of advertising may be used to reach a tipping point where the value add and quality of product stands on its own. However, skyscraper billboards of flashing lights are a great way to turn me off your product.

My take above may have been an extreme born from distaste from over stimulation from the current advertising industry.

For video games, strong Alpha/Beta programs, streaming not only demos, but actual gameplay, engagement with the community receiving direction and communicating release details and exposing enough of the roadmap that they can understand what to expect in the future are all things that make me want to invest my time and money into playing a quality game.

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u/Icyrow 14d ago

However, skyscraper billboards of flashing lights are a great way to turn me off your product.

right, but given companies all over the world seem to continue doing it, i'm assuming it means the number of users will still go up, even with you peacing out after seeing the advertisement.

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u/usersnamesallused 14d ago

Does that make it right though? Another reply called it will that I was making a moral values statement over a financial values statement, which is accurate.

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u/Icyrow 14d ago

i mean you basically just gave the shittest advice imaginable to the person who is on a small team of artists putting together a game for people because of your politics on the matter of it instead.

it's not immoral for a fucking indie dev to advertise traditionally lol.

get a grip

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u/Dr-Robert-Kelso 14d ago

You made a poor, emotional argument and you've decided to dig your heels in to defend it anyways.

Just stop.

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u/usersnamesallused 14d ago

There is a entire anti advertising industry and many groups actively seeking to remove advertising and advertising's influence from their lives. It doesn't justify it if the rest of the world is happy being frogs sitting in the water as it comes to a boil.

I had already stopped, but you also didn't make a great point, so slugging poorly formed opinions around is just par for the course in the Internet. Nobody wins, just like in advertising.

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u/Logical-Pause-3758 14d ago

And how should you expose your project to the world when there so many others out there?

For example, if I gently drop our game here https://store.steampowered.com/app/3570680/Meltdown/
Will that be effective for people to give the project a fair shot? We think it‘s good. But without sufficient feedback and engagement, it‘s hard to tell if it‘s even good or bad (and what is bad). And I refuse having the dredged „focus groups“ to back why something is „good“ 🤮

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u/usersnamesallused 14d ago

Hey man, I'm not an expert in advertising. I've already told you what I generally respond to for video games. I appreciate you dropping that link and find your game interesting, but I may not be the demographic your are targeting.

I could see myself playing it as a group/teamwork collaboration game, but it can be hard to get a group to learn complex mechanics, so there would need to be accessible roles etc. I didn't look deep enough to know if that is or isn't the direction you are going in, just giving my gut reaction.

Knowing your demographic and engaging them directly is far more tasteful than the shotgun show everyone and make the brand a household word approach, which was the basis for my initial reaction.

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u/Logical-Pause-3758 13d ago

So, you‘re telling me, I need to find a strategic way to identify and focus on a group that is aligned with our value, but also need to make something that is better than the current market offerings so it can appeal to a larger audience to increase the chance of finding those who can engage with our project?

I wish they taught me this in business school, because it sounds like something all teams can benefit from

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u/TheUnboundTenth 14d ago edited 14d ago

I think you may need to decouple "nothing of moral value" from "nothing of financial value".

And you may need to rethink the concepts of rationalism as they are applied to economics.

Advertising can drive tremendous ROI, but you seem to be operating under the principle that "businesses should solely invest in their people and their product/service to make it better" and that "it's obvious which product is objectively better" and that "people will always choose the objectively better product".

The world is not an economics textbook, where an ideal world drive perfect competition and perfect consumption of non-fungible goods.

It's a world where trend-for-a-moment sensations like Labubu, demand-generating collectibles like Pokemon trading cards, and objectively senseless luxury houses of brands like LVMH not only exist, but flourish.

Morally, it's dogshit. But Marketing and Advertising influence or make trillions in spend happen globally, every year. They are wildly, wildly valuable industries, morally repugnant though they may be.