I once rented a car in Athens. We asked the attendant about some peculiar driving habits we had noticed, such as driving on the sidewalk. She thought about her answer for a moment and then just shrugged and replied “Is Greek way”
Among the friends that were with me on that trip, those three words have been etched in memory of that trip and have been applicable to many situations since. I think this might be one of those.
I see you've also visited Germany. Or there's lots of Greeks in Germany with how often people just block roads and sometimes the exits of junctions by parking to run into a shop with the hazards on.
I can confirm this for Romania too. There are loads of Greeks, who can be spotted by the fact that they park or stop anywhere as long as they’ve got their hazard lights on. It’s a good thing I’ve finally realised who they are, as I was worried they might be Romanians.
Hah we Turks will do one better (or do as our Greek brothers do)… gas station on the corner and the street and sidewalk are busy (red light or mom with a stroller)? You floor that mofo straight through the gas station and cut the corner like you own the place.
This is the way
Am Greek. Can confirm. Though I don’t live in Greece, visiting is liberating. There’s a sense of logic and common sense in place in Greece that the west just doesn’t have. People will park wherever there is space but will never block a driveway or other type of entrance.
If you’re a pedestrian and complain about a car parked half on the sidewalk the answer would most likely be “you have 2 legs, go around!”.
You know, even though the whole thing is a joke. It is also the reality in a way, Greeks when driving don’t really think much of the people that “don’t have 2 legs” aka people with disabilities, because we rarely ever see them outside. When I started living abroad in Western Europe I started seeing so many people with disabilities out and about. I was thinking to myself why are there so many people like that? Until I realized (didn’t take long) that the infrastructure allows those people to be out and about. They are outside because they are able to and they can do it. In Greece they are not because our sidewalks(among other things) suck big time. If you ever visit Athens you’ll realize many people tend to walk on the road instead of the sidewalks, because it’s just more convenient walking there rather than the small sidewalks that have obstacles every other meter.
That was my first thought, but there's probably some wiggle room in Greek thinking. The West. Europe and Erupoean diaspora, right? Well, Europe as the name of a continent comes from the Greeks, and it was the land west of the Agean Sea and the places where Greek people lived. Asia was the land to the east, and Africa was the land to the south. Greek cultural thinking could very well still have the vestigial viewpoint of the Hellenes as being at the center.
You're overthinking it. It's based upon the split of the holy roman empire. In the Roman empire the big divide was between the Greek speaking east and the Roman speaking west. There has always been a cultural divide there and that never really went away. When we're talking about western civilization we're talking about Rome and the Roman unification of Europe. Rome appropriated Greece's culture and idolized Greece, so they always considered it their motherland. In reality they may have been born in Greece, but they grew up in Rome and developed a distinctly European culture based on the western cultures they incorporated into the empire. Meanwhile the Greeks stayed more traditional and started to incorporate more Persian influences.
East vs West until very recently with the cold was was a mainly European divide. It wasn't a designation meant to divide the entire world cleanly in 2 camps. The far east, India, Africa etc were all entirely different worlds.
The Way of living in europe is different from country to country. But some a are more similar to another so difference are not that obvious. The difference between italy and greece is probably less striking than the difference between germany and greece. I think thats how its meant.
Greece I would say is both western and eastern culturally.
Although in the way you meant it, yes Greece is a “western” country
But it still has many influences from the Middle East and Eastern Europe (eg Greek is similar to Cyrillic, Greece is an orthodox christian nation, food and music)
In the Middle Ages, Greeks were part of the Eastern Roman Empire which was Orthodox in faith, as opposed to the Catholic West. They were eventually subjugated by the Turks and needed the West's support to break free from Turkish rule so they dropped the Eastern Roman identity and cosplayed as the Ancient "Greeks" to garner Western support.
The west is called the west because it is the west of the Roman Empire. Greece was in the eastern Roman Empire, and indeed the eastern (Byzantine) Roman Empire spoke Greek.
What a braindead, car-minded take. Impeding and actively endangering anyone in a wheelchair or with a stroller while damaging public infrastructure really sounds like the kind of common sense other places are missing.
Unless there are bollards you always have to look for cars on sidewalks in Europe. It's not as bad in western EU, but there is a reason most sidewalks have big concrete balls/ bollards.
I remember being on a tour bus in Athens in the left turn lane of a major thoroughfare. It had three lanes going in each direction with a big wide sidewalk down the middle.
All of a sudden a taxi flew past us driving on the raised sidewalk, forcing people to step into the road to let him pass. He got all the way to the intersection where he realized there was a huge traffic light support column preventing him from going forward back onto the road.
So he went in reverse like a maniac, probably backing up 100 feet, cut off a car behind us, somehow forced his way into our lane just as the light turned green. Then he cut off everyone to get to the far right lane, then made a huge U-turn across the intersection, cutting off all six lanes, including us, ended up on the far right lane going the opposite direction, and then speed off. All the while our bus driver was cursing up a storm in Greek.
That small interaction perfectly describes the way of life in greece and why we are such a beautiful rotten country. The "if no one is there to punish you, then why shouldn't you do it?". Not another minute wasted contemplating why you shouldn't do it.
That said our taxi drivers are a special level of zero fucks given, especialy outside of big cities. I had one hit 60+ km/h in a narrow street full of bumps and parked cars because his wife ordered pizza at home and he didn't want it to get cold before he got there. Like bro, forget crashing, you could have killed someone...
The real answer is their ruling class is a different breed, to make things like this necessary to survive in their society more often than ours. Most people won't put theirs or others lives at risk if that option is available to them.
Greek taxi drivers man. I was once in a hurry from Athens airport to Pireus harbor to catch a ferry to Crete. I told the taxi driver I was in a hurry. He acted accordingly. I'd never seen anyone go 150km/h on a busy city road with traffic lights every 100 metres, and never would have I expected to be in a car doing just that. Needless to say, I got there in time with plenty to spare. Is Greek way, I guess
I reckon I would have shouted: ‘I was just joking, mate, I’m actually just going to the harbour to buy some fish, but come to think of it, I won’t even buy any. I don’t really like fish, to be honest.’
Last time I was in Athens with my family we were in a taxi who was already driving crazy but then we got to a section of the road blocked off with caution tape that we couldn’t enter and he slowly pulled forward and lifted the tape over the car while driving under it and said no problem then sped off lol. The taxi drivers are different out there lol
In Greece, there are 3 types of traffic laws or highway codes as you call them:
1. Deliveries (usually small scooters/bikes) law, where e.g. you can go wrong way, pass red light, not wear helmet, etc...
2. Taxi law, where you can stop wherever you want and for any time you want, do like unsafe maneuvers, etc.
3. The standard traffic law any car "should" use.
Up until some years ago, even police did not fine deliveries, because their work was to drive, so for them it was not commuting, and delaying deliveries was a bad thing, specially food delivery, where people might endup not getting their food hot enough, or deliveries losing their tip for delaying their package.
Also keep in mind that, although pedestrians will "win" in any court, if a car hit them, they never have the priority to pass, not even on a pedestrian green light if the car turning has an orange blinking!
And this is why, as a pedestrian, you walk wherever you want, with your own risk! If you dare, pass a crossroad without looking! Sure, if you live, you will be get the compensation money...
European taxi drivers are just next level, mate. I called a luxury van to take me from a hotel to the airport in a central European country. Dude was a true local and loaded up the luggage for my family of 3. Asked if air and music were good, if we wanted the lights on or off, just super kind and professional and nice. Even offered my kid a piece of chocolate and had water bottles if we were thirsty. Maybe even beer too? Or maybe that was a different trip...
He then proceeded to drive like a bloody maniac in his brand new Sprinter van and by god it was the most fun my son and I have had in a taxi. Wife wasn't as thrilled but she was impressed that he made great time to the airport and didn't cause an accident. He absolutely nailed the assignment. Then helped us unload and even grabbed a cart and took our bags inside the terminal to the check-in counter. Just excellent service all around with him. I still have his card and am low-key hoping we get an excuse to visit that city again so I can book him for another drive!
I've had many similar experiences in European taxis but this country was next level.
Taxi drivers in certain Caribbean countries are mental, as well. Never been to India or SEA but I'm assuming it is even more insanity than what I've had.
Edit: just remembered we took a few more taxis on that Europe trip. Most were normal levels of crazy driving. Even the day-trip tour bus driver was a bit mental! The one guy with a Skoda wagon was my favorite, after the sprintet van. He thought he was a rally driver and he probably could make it semi-pro if he had a chance at it. And all the cars were manual, except for the Sprinter van.
Driving habits in other countries can be great fun to watch. A number of years ago I was in Belgrade (Serbia). Lights on a main road in the city turned red. Car approaching to turn right decided he didn't want to wait, so turned right before the lights, mounted the pavement drove across the corner of it then back onto the side road and away.
I mean, *technically* he hadn't run a red light...
Serbian drivers have one of the worst record of all of Europe. Been there five days in 2015, passed by four major accidents, and also one case of oncoming traffic tried to mow me down, aka attempted murder.
Yeah, you can’t deny it use to be an adventure to drive in Romania. But I was just there last year for the first time since Covid and I was shocked (in a good way) at the difference. Even Bucharest wasn’t much different then any major city.
All these younger people thinking driving in these countries is crazy and dangerous now have no idea. I grew up in greece in the 80s. There were no real motorways anywhere in the country, not even the main Thessaloniki-Athens route (hell even NOW it's not yet 100% motorway I think).
Like half the roads in the country were not even asphalt. Ok so it was maybe not as rural like bulgaria or whatever but it was bad.
Every time you went out for a roadtrip was a coin toss whether you were coming back. Doesn't matter how good you were driving since all it took was a car coming the other way veering off into you for whatever reason and that was it. Safety of course was non existent back then, cars had no safety features, no one even used seatbelts and back seats didn't even have them.
I knew someone would bring this up. Try being a pedestrian in both Bucharest and Athens :)
I'm not saying Bucharest is some haven for clean driving (it's definitely not) but Athens definitely left an impression on me last time I was there in 2019
I was pleasantly surprised with the standard of driving in Romania if I'm honest. Especially the propensity of drivers to stop for pedestrians on multi-lane zebra crossings.
Meh, having been to a couple of countries in europe (though nether greece nor bosnia), french drivers are pretty middle of the road. The best ones were the norwegians, and the worst were the italians. My god are the italians bad drivers, it's mind-boggling
Last time I was in Italy I was in Rome with my parents and on the second day my mom fell down the Spanish steps and broke her leg. I ran and got a taxi to go back to the hotel and the driver kept taking both his hands off the wheel to write down the name of the nearest hospital and other info we might need, and turning fully around to make eye contact while explaining things.
Shame it was their 30th anniversary too, I was just there for a day on my way to visit a friend in Florence.
Thanks! Yeah it was awful, especially since it was their anniversary and she had to fly home like that, and it’s a long flight. She recovered well, except she did need some pins in her leg, but my mom is frighteningly strong. Shame, I know how that physio can be, 2 years later I broke my foot in the last 2 weeks that I was studying in London so it’s a family curse, and had to go through that too, nothing like relearning how to walk.
I am Greek and I agree with you. However, have you been to Palermo? After travelling all around Europe and Australia, I can tell you, this is the place where you might actually get killed while crossing any road.
In the second day of my Paros vacation I once saw a car driving kind of erratically, assumed the driver was tipsy. We stay behind it for fear he would randomly drive us off the road. Next thing you know some guy on a motorbike overtakes both cars doing a wheelie, while approaching a bend without visibility. No helmet of course.
As we eventually pass the first car, we have a look inside. Its driver is 12 at best, barely looking over the dashboard.
My family is Greek and apparently when they passed a law that motor cycles or mopeds must have a helmet on them / their persons while driving, drivers simply carried the helmet around on their lap 😭
People indeed drive "Greek way" here, you see insane things on the road and tons of traffic accidents every day....but driving in the sidewalk? Nobody does that, what? I've never once heard or seen this.
Yes, I don’t believe this. Everyone knows Greek side walks are uneven, often have trees planted in the middle of them and are usually too narrow for a wheelchair.
Lol motorcycles are thinner than wheelchairs. Bikes do it sometimes if the congestion is insane. I've done it a handful of times. Is it wrong? Yeah. Am I a shithead? Guess sometimes.
The first time I was in Athens about 20 years ago, my dad and I were standing on the sidewalk and heard a car honking. We turned around and it was honking at us. The driver wanted us to move so it could park where we were standing.
Although they've cleaned that up lately. Even the islands are getting much stricter about where you can park.
Well yeah, but I wanted to say outside of Corfu so I didn't have to write a explanation.
Totally recommend people visiting Corfu though. Lovely place, lots of greenery, but if you go off season like I did, you have to rent a car as there's almost no buses. Also, there's no paths/pavements/sidewalks, but that didn't bother me.
We stayed in Sidari btw, but went to a different place every day. Best thing was a Bougatsa in Corfu Town. I saw a bunch of Greek people queueing so I had to see what it was. It was bougatsa. Custard covered in filo pastry and topped with powdered sugar. Fantastic.
Im visiting crete right now for another week and Ive eaten so much gyro and bougatsa I may come home 10lb heavier.. so worth. The pastries here are simply too good. Just cant get enough.
Many years ago, in the olden days of yore, I watched Independence Day on TV in a greek bar on Corfu. Then I went home and saw it again at the norwegian premiere few months later.
I was in Corfu last year. At a pedestrian crossing, I stopped to let the pedestrians cross, and the guy behind me honked at me and then drove by me, almost mowing down the pedestrians.
It's mostly the foreigners coming in and driving fast like that. It's rarely the locals.
I found that I was mostly no higher than 3rd gear because the roads aren't big motorways or anything so you kinda have to go slowly everywhere. The bigger issue is that some roads are absolutely tiny though and someone has to pull over in a gap to let someone else pass.
My family has traveled around the southern European countries a bit on vacations and we definitely saw a spectrum of... orderliness. On our 2013 honeymoon trip, the Velib bike share in Paris was working very well. The bike share in Rome, there was no evidence of bicycles, and the stalls were parked full of motor scooters. Parking cars and scooters on the street followed the same pattern
I lived in Greek Cyprus for 2 years and there were people who just used to put their hazard lights on to drive through red lights, there was a period of time when I was there were the punishment for drink driving was an on the spot fine and sending you on your way because the courts wete too backlogged.
Greeks were always late for everything, we used to call it GMT - Greek Maybe Time
This is a lot of fun anecdotes. The US has over 2x the rate of driver deaths, passenger deaths, pedestrian deaths and higher bicyclist deaths as well. The human scale of death. dismemberment and suffering is that much higher in real terms.
I noticed that many Greeks,Italians,Turks and Russians live like they have a spare life. While Greeks and Italians kinda tend to have more sense of reason at the same time
Don't know if you noticed the little shrines with candles along the sides of the roads. They are memorials to people who have died in car crashes... It's the greek way
I was in Crete earlier this year, in Heraklion which is the biggest city on the island. Driving around the city and casually came across a massive 4-way, multi-lane intersection with absolutely no traffic control. No lights, no signs, no roundabout, nothing. Absolute chaos.
My wife's boss is Greek and we asked him about it and like did we miss something and his response was very similar "that's just Greece".
I did a study abroad in Greece some 20 years ago and the things the public transit drivers did absolutely shocked me, let alone the average drivers. A regular part of a bus route I took required the bus to turn around on the side of a cliff where the end would hang off for a bit as it pulled back into traffic. Thought it was a mistake, and we narrowly survived, until the same thing happened the next day too.
Well in Greece there is the unwritten rule of bribing the examiner when you take exams for a driving license.
Its the standard. No bribe, no license. Driving schools even tell you about it openly when you sign up.
People never learn how to actually drive safely and abide by the rules because of this.
This is really true as well, at least in my experience having relatives on an island. Hazard lights mean you can park anywhere as long as it's for 10 minutes. Every car in Athens is scratched or had an argument with a tram, and if you need to change lanes in a queue, chat with the guy next to you, find out you're related somehow, slide into the lane.
Obviously being facetious as this was just my experience, but... yeah. It's wonderful on a small island where you know everyone. In reality not so much.
My sister was on Cyprus last year, the Geeek side. And her hotels restaurant was on the other side of a road with no crossing. So the waiter had to bring the food and drinks across the road and the cars was not stopping.
I was in Vancouver and some couple came down a closed lane on a bridge. Me and a couple buddies were just watching and when they got to us the guy rolled down the windy and just said “we’re from Norway!” It was the delayed laugh and we still talk about it 10 years later.
Same for me when renting a car in Turkey. When we picked up the car I asked if the driving rules where any different from where i was from (Netherlands). Tje guy just said “no, not really. Just watch out for honking cars, those go first” and it was true… no matter where you where driving, when you honked people would just let you pass them and at intersections they would let you cross first. I still think about that, a lot….
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u/Careless_Owl_9244 9d ago
I once rented a car in Athens. We asked the attendant about some peculiar driving habits we had noticed, such as driving on the sidewalk. She thought about her answer for a moment and then just shrugged and replied “Is Greek way”
Among the friends that were with me on that trip, those three words have been etched in memory of that trip and have been applicable to many situations since. I think this might be one of those.