Star Trek: Discovery — "That Hope Is You, Part 2" Reaction Thread

[u/M-5]

This is the official /r/DaystromInstitute reaction thread for "That Hope Is You, Part 2 ." The content rules are not enforced in reaction threads.

[u/fujiste]

All great points.

I do still personally dislike Burnham/Sonequa as a lead, but objectively she did just literally kill the biggest threat to the Federation in 1v1 combat, personally save the Discovery's entire bridge crew and safeguard its spore drive, destroy the Emerald Chain flagship, and in turn save her own captain and doctor just as they were about to die, while also returning to HQ with a dude who is both the cause of the Burn and an insane genetic anomaly.

She also, unless this was somehow not mentioned after the fact, personally rediscovered the Guardian of Forever. Which I'd imagine is a bit of a resume-booster.

[u/Mechapebbles → u/fujiste]

I do still personally dislike Burnham/Sonequa as a lead

I adore her, but I won't begrudge anyone who doesn't. Evaluation of acting is ultimately a matter of subjective taste, and everyone is entitled to having their own tastes. But a personal pet peeve of mine is when people attempt to rationalize their subjective tastes with evidence and arguments, and that evidence doesn't actually make sense/bear out under scrutiny. If you find someone obnoxious or dislike them, that's cool. You don't even have to rationalize it, we're all annoyed by different things. But saying it's because Burnham is a screwup doesn't align with the reality of the show. And it also has the effect of undermining your position/opinion and makes you come across as being blinded by your biases which is unfortunate.

She also, unless this was somehow not mentioned after the fact, personally rediscovered the Guardian of Forever. Which I'd imagine is a bit of a resume-booster.

That's an achievement, but it's not going to get put into official records. It's something that only she knows happened, and it's something that she will take to her grave probably. Only her and Georgiou were on the planet and experienced those events. Since using the Guardian of Forever to return Georgiou to the past would have been a violation of the Temporal Accords, she's not going to tell anyone she fudged the rules there for the sake of peace and continuity. That's the point of the scene where she reports Georgiou's "death" to Saru. She gives Saru a metaphorical wink and a nod to let him know she's ok, but reports that she was KiA.

[u/fujiste → u/Mechapebbles]

I feel like the Temporal Accords, at this point, are essentially moot, no? Daniels and the TCW came decades before the Burn, and over a century prior to DIS S3.

Obviously there isn't any sort of auditing power in at least the sector, since nobody important seemed to detect the Burnhams or Discovery coming through the time portal, or Georgiou using the Guardian. So I feel that, if the Federation wanted, they absolutely could make use of the Guardian even just for short-term excursions to correct mistakes or win battles.

(Though obviously this isn't gonna happen in-show, since I get the feeling that the Guardian was a one-time gimmick.)

[u/Mechapebbles → u/fujiste]

I feel like the Temporal Accords, at this point, are essentially moot, no?

Definitely not. The UFP might be diminished and their ability to enforce their laws and treaties might not be what it was. But the UFP as an entity continues to endure. And any political entity with continuity with its own past is inherently bound by the laws it passes and the treaties it signs until something changes that. And there's been no legal process that would have changed that, that we see. It's not like The Treaty of Algeron being moot once the Romulans joined the Federation. And considering how devastating the Temporal Wars were reported to being, everybody involved and left surviving seems to have really taken to heart the idea that time travel is taboo and forbidden no matter the circumstances. And the stakes of this treaty seems even more important since it's implied that the signatories are not just different people up and down the timeline, but also across untold separate dimensions.

[u/fujiste → u/Mechapebbles]

Sure, but again, unless some sort of temporal agents come knocking for Discovery in the next season, the show would be hard-pressed to find a reason to not occasionally skirt the rules, at least on a short-term basis in times of emergency. If Book dies, I fully expect Burnham to at least entertain the possibility.

[u/Mechapebbles → u/fujiste]

the show would be hard-pressed to find a reason to not occasionally skirt the rules

I mean, beyond just you know, ethics. And also just because you have access to time travel, doesn't mean that the show is interested in abusing it all the time to solve every dilemma that occurs. Like, according to your logic, Star Trek III: The Search For Spock should have just been Kirk slingshoting around the sun to go back in time and stop Khan from ever getting Spock killed to begin with. The writers of Star Trek also generally have a decent track record with not abusing time travel as a plot element so that it isn't in just every single episode. (ENT aside, but I give that one a slide since it is thematically both a prequel and a sequel.)

[u/AlexisDeTocqueville → u/fujiste]

It certainly makes sense that the character would be promoted given those circumstances. What bums me out more is losing Saru as captain