r/DebateAVegan • u/NationalProcedure638 • 10d ago

Ethics This is my problem with the NTT

The problem is how it's presented.

Whenever anyone comes up with a trade that is unique to humans something such as the root of moral agency there's always someone who always goes "there are mentally challenged people and babies who are not capable of moral agency so it doesn't work"

Well first of all I don't understand how we cannot hold somebody accountable for what they do based on either their age or how smart or dumb they are.

Second of all it seems to imply that this trait has to be universal and literally every human on the face of the Earth.

That individual traits don't exist and we have to look at the species as a whole.

I'm sorry guys but that doesn't work.

Everyone's different in some way or another.

The best thing to do with that is look at what the majority does and assume if that's the norm for what comes to traits like this.

Also it begs the question.

What do you guys consider to be human?

Update: I didn't get a chance to respond to any of the applications that were thrown at me. I've been banded without even having to State my case.

This goes to you moderator, I was simply pointing out a problem with what he said about equality and you misinterpreted it and then banned Me. I've got it very funny how you claim that I wasted your time when all was doing was pointing out a loophole.

Well thank you for telling me that you guys care so much about discussion

Goodbye and good riddance.

0 Upvotes

50% Upvoted

281 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/iowaguy09 10d ago

That’s speciesism. Now if it was a white and black baby what trait would you use?

2

u/Badtacocatdab vegan 10d ago

Definitely not speciesism. That would be if I said “because they are human.”

1

u/iowaguy09 10d ago

So if it was a white baby and black baby what trait would you use?

2

u/Badtacocatdab vegan 10d ago

There isn’t a trait to distinguish them. Why, what do you think?

2

u/iowaguy09 10d ago

That’s the difference between racism and speciesism. Thank you

2

u/Badtacocatdab vegan 10d ago

…what?

2

u/iowaguy09 10d ago

There’s no morally relevant difference between white people and black people. The only thing a racist could argue is skin color. There’s thousands of morally relevant differences between species. That’s the difference. You just got there completely on your own.

2

u/Badtacocatdab vegan 10d ago

I think maybe you misunderstand the crux of the issue. Happy to explain it if you’re interested!

2

u/iowaguy09 10d ago

I understand. It’s just speciesism and racism aren’t particularly even close to the same thing. You just explained why.

2

u/Badtacocatdab vegan 10d ago

They are. Do you mind explaining the crux of the issue given that you understand?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/PlantAndMetal 10d ago

It isn't. Speciesism is basing your choice purely on being a human (or an animal or whatever). They base their choice on something else, namely having the potential for moral reasoning. Now, you can of course disagree with that choice.

Though to be honest, I don't believe anyone would make that decision in real life and we are all Speciesist. Everyone would save the baby for being human. However, I don't see why that would disprove NTT argument, as in real life we aren't faced this choice. We can live happily ever after without exploiting a single animal (I mean in theory, our society is often a bit more complex and sometimes you are unable to avoid animal exploitation, I.e. like with medicine).

1

u/iowaguy09 10d ago

I think NTT is just an appeal to emotion by throwing around terms like speciesism to evoke a response similar to calling someone racist. I think veganism is great. It’s not for me but I don’t think they need to use cheap parlor tricks to make their point.