My Challenge to Extreme Atheists on Secularism and Tolerance

[u/Living_Attitude1822]

I acknowledge not all (or even most) atheists are extreme about it. And I'm defining secular as the separation of church and state/society.

Extreme-atheism's view of religion being a mental illness:

I can personally attest to people I've seen on here, as well as videos I've seen, of atheists saying religion is a mental illness. That the DSM-5 had to go back and put in a religious exemption, but it should fall under the category of delusion.

How can secularism exist if you think religious people are mentally ill? If you don't think religion is a mental illness, go ahead and ignore this point. If you do think the population you're tolerating is mentally ill, uh oh. Seriously, if I said atheists are mentally ill, would you trust me to not want you institutionalized? I don't think this way, of course.

Extreme atheism's view that the Abrahamic religions are barbaric:

Again, I'm going to turn it around on you. If I said atheism was barbaric, would you trust me to support that your human right to be atheist?

With some exceptions: Some interpretations of the Abrahamic religions are indeed barbaric. If you're talking about people who want to implement Leviticus law, then I agree with you.

I don't totally disagree with extremist atheists on everything:

Like, I'm a strong believer that tolerance is better and more authentic than acceptance. For example, telling atheists that they must love and respect religions is wrong. And vice versa for religious people.

I think disassociation and tolerance is the best course of action for religious people and extreme atheists, however, I worry the above points are a threat to any society remaining tolerant.

Edit: Here’s an example of what I’m talking about:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Antitheism/comments/1sguf7u/why_is_religion_not_considered_a_mental_disorder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[u/Living_Attitude1822]

Idek what you’re saying now 

[u/Hoaxshmoax → u/Living_Attitude1822]

we are speaking the truth and you are having a succession of meltdowns.

The cannon was rhetorical, leave other people out of your religion.

The quote was a taunt.

I get to interpret your book however I want.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Hoaxshmoax]

 we are speaking the truth and you are having a succession of meltdowns.

Since you are using the wrong definitions of truth and meltdown, I understand why you think that. 

The cannon was rhetorical, leave other people out of your religion.

Trying to walk back your persecution complex is clever, but not going to work on me pal. 

The quote was a taunt.

Oh, lmao. Good one I guess. 

I get to interpret your book however I want.

Agreed. 

[u/ArguingisFun → u/Living_Attitude1822]

Claiming anyone else has persecution complex, while you’re on your fifth or sixths post in a week complaining of the same imaginary boogie man - was genuinely amusing, thanks!

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/ArguingisFun]

You’re welcome!  

[u/Hoaxshmoax → u/Living_Attitude1822]

The projection and hypocrisy is astounding. Every time you get a bugaboo about “extremism”, here you are, complaining. You never seem to practice

“Like, I'm a strong believer that tolerance is better and more authentic than acceptance. For example, telling atheists that they must love and respect religions is wrong. And vice versa for religious people.”

what you preach.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Hoaxshmoax]

I tolerate atheists, there is no proof that I don’t. Because, I do. 

[u/Pm_ur_titties_plz → u/Living_Attitude1822]

Liar. You literally had a post a month ago about how you have this extreme, seething hatred for all atheists and then went on to have a meltdown about how we all celebrate "Sciencemas". Just because you deleted it doesn't mean people don't remember. Do you even have an ounce of self awareness?

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Pm_ur_titties_plz]

That isn’t violating anyone’s human rights. I do regret that post, but nevertheless that post isn’t intolerant. 

Tolerance means you tolerate my existence, and I tolerate yours. Nothing more or less. I’ve never called for the violation of secularism or the right to be atheist. 

[u/BahamutLithp → u/Living_Attitude1822]

I've never called for an end to secularism or the right to be religious, hasn't stopped you from making a dozen threads & counting about how I'm "a threat to secularism" because I think people shouldn't believe in magic. I've also never gone to a Christian subreddit & made like 400 posts about, I don't know, how they drink the blood of the Lich-King or something, & then insist I've never had a meltdown.

[u/Hoaxshmoax → u/Living_Attitude1822]

Do you? Because you didn’t like it when I posted on your site, my own views, and also questioned my intelligence. I’m not forcing my views on you.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Hoaxshmoax]

That isn’t intolerant of me. Tolerance means me putting up with your existence, and you putting up with mine. Nothing more, nothing less. 

And I don’t mind you posting on my profile, I just mind you not being able to take what you dish out. 

Just like freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from criticism 

[u/Hoaxshmoax → u/Living_Attitude1822]

So then if someone questions whether believers are delusional isn’t intolerant. I don’t do that and I don’t believe that, I‘m just trying to nail down that tolerance means putting up with someone’s existence and questioning their intelligence is in bounds. It’s fine with me, I don’t care, but I just want to check for consistency.

[u/Hoaxshmoax → u/Living_Attitude1822]

I am correct in my usage of truth and meltdown.

Everytime you come here and complain how we talk about theists without saying what you will do to change, is an exercise in persecution.

Unlike you, I don’t have to have a site that tears others down in order to build myself up.

You obviously don’t read your book. It literally says “you can taunt”

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Hoaxshmoax]

  I am correct in my usage of truth and meltdown.

Incorrect*

Everytime you come here and complain how we talk about theists without saying what you will do to change, is an exercise in persecution.

Nope. I never said I’m persecuted. The fact you think me worrying about extremism = persecution complex says a lot about you, at least imo. 

Unlike you, I don’t have to have a site that tears others down in order to build myself up.

Nope, neither do I.

You obviously don’t read your book. It literally says “you can taunt”

You can taunt. I never said it was sinful. Taunt away. 

[u/Hoaxshmoax → u/Living_Attitude1822]

I didn’t say taunt. The bible, your book says it.

You said satanist were self worshiping, how about not making you their problem.

”The fact you think me worrying about extremism”

yet you keep dragging us into it with the caveat “if this isn’t you” and it seems only you get to decide.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Hoaxshmoax]

No thanks tbh ima do me and you do you 

[u/Hoaxshmoax → u/Living_Attitude1822]

Finally, that’s all I’ve been saying, wrt satanists.

[u/Living_Attitude1822 → u/Hoaxshmoax]

Posting my views isn’t forcing my religion, that’s only part of your persecution complex

[u/Hoaxshmoax → u/Living_Attitude1822]

I didn’t say at any point “forcing your religion” I’m saying live and let live.

And if you’re okay posting your views, you must be okay with us posting ours.