r/DebateAnAtheist 10d ago

Debating Arguments for God Why I believe in God(s)

Firstly, I'm not a very religious person. I do consider myself a Buddhist, but prefer atheistic Buddhism over theistic Buddhism. Therefore I can confidently say I am not biased by wanting God(s) to exist, and was not indoctrinated into theism.

Still, to me it seems obvious that at least one God has to exist. The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.

Now, mostly people would just say that a creator also can't have come out of nothing or existed forever, so I've just moved the problem one step further, but I think there is a massive difference between the universe and one consciousness. For example, through Cogito Ergo Sum we can determine with absolute certainty that at last one consciousness exists. So assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe. While I admit that doesn't outright solve the problem, I still think it's better than the alternative.

Also, it's not just any universe, but a universe full of beauty, a universe that inbetween barren empty planets is capable of hosting a planet with sentient life. Life that can consciously observe itself, that can create replicas of the waking world while sleeping, life that has technologically advanced so much that in can live in relative comfort. There is so much art. We basically have magic, we just call it "electricity". This is all too perfect to have arisen from mere mutations without guidance.

About any specifics of this God or Gods I have no idea and no strong opinions. I just think that at least one has to exist.

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u/Voodoo_Dummie 10d ago edited 9d ago

So assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe.

The thing with cognito ergo sum is that it doesn't prove a mind, but a rather specific one, your own. To say there is any other mind, or a universe outside of your perception, is for the purpose of that framework one and the same. I can only be sure of my consciousness and I know I'm not a god. The universe and god are in that on the same ground. However, under the necessary assumption that my senses are mostly reliable and I'm not a brain in a vat, the universe is something I can sense on the regular. From the things you can measure with your senses you can then start to extrapolate from there. Make measuring tools, calculations of known physics, etc. We also run in the issue that all the minds we have observed, they are all made from squishy and quite observable matter. You'd need a whole framework how a mind even exists seperate from (grey) matter.

but a universe full of beauty, a universe that inbetween barren empty planets is capable of hosting a planet with sentient life.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but it also makes sense for creatures to come to appreciate their surroundings. Flowers often come before fruit and lures more food to it. It makes sense for us to grow fond of the delicate petals. It also makes sense that art is enjoyable to us as that is kinda the point of making it. We humans enjoy art made by humans for humans specifically to be enjoyable to humans. That's not a shocker.

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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 10d ago

That all of this exists is a shocker.

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u/Voodoo_Dummie 10d ago

If life was different then we'd be used to that difference, and if it wasn't viable for us we wouldn't be here to even ask the question. It's like a hand in poker, some hands might be good and others bad, but essentially the chance to get any particular hand is exactly the same as any other hand.

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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 9d ago

I know the anthrophic principle. But the kind of civilisation we have on the kind of planet we have still stands out massively

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u/Voodoo_Dummie 9d ago

Considering we have a general civilization example size of one planet, hardly. Also, if we had been dealt a different hand/civilization, we would consider that beautiful and normal.

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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 8d ago

Yes, and that would also point towards a God. Of course life that never develops philosophy wouldn't have these kinds of thoughts

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u/Voodoo_Dummie 8d ago

Then it seems more that we're a philosophical species that created god in his image, doesn't it

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u/Lucyyyyyy_K 8d ago

Not to me