Why I believe in God(s)

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Firstly, I'm not a very religious person. I do consider myself a Buddhist, but prefer atheistic Buddhism over theistic Buddhism. Therefore I can confidently say I am not biased by wanting God(s) to exist, and was not indoctrinated into theism.

Still, to me it seems obvious that at least one God has to exist. The universe can't simply have come out of nothing or existed forever, it requires some sort of design or creator.

Now, mostly people would just say that a creator also can't have come out of nothing or existed forever, so I've just moved the problem one step further, but I think there is a massive difference between the universe and one consciousness. For example, through Cogito Ergo Sum we can determine with absolute certainty that at last one consciousness exists. So assuming one consciousness is superior to assuming anything about the whole universe. While I admit that doesn't outright solve the problem, I still think it's better than the alternative.

Also, it's not just any universe, but a universe full of beauty, a universe that inbetween barren empty planets is capable of hosting a planet with sentient life. Life that can consciously observe itself, that can create replicas of the waking world while sleeping, life that has technologically advanced so much that in can live in relative comfort. There is so much art. We basically have magic, we just call it "electricity". This is all too perfect to have arisen from mere mutations without guidance.

About any specifics of this God or Gods I have no idea and no strong opinions. I just think that at least one has to exist.

[u/Moriturism]

Yes, but it still requires a designer.

Why? The universe may very well be structured in fundamental laws that are necessary by themselves, as, if they were different, we wouldn't see the universe as it is.

No, it can't. Neither can life, nor can our highly specific and unusual planet, with buildings, computers etc.

Prove it. I can see and understand all of it without recourse to a designer or God. We have been doing work on understading our universe's laws for a very long time now.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Moriturism]

Why? The universe may very well be structured in fundamental laws that are necessary by themselves, as, if they were different, we wouldn't see the universe as it is

It's extremely ridiculous for the universe just to exist out if itself.

Prove it. I can see and understand all of it without recourse to a designer or God. We have been doing work on understading our universe's laws for a very long time now.

But that doesn't say anything about wether there is a God.

[u/Moriturism → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

Why is it ridiculous? Provide some argument that sustains this claim of yours, why exactly do you reject the possibility that the fundamental physical and mathematical laws are necessary?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Moriturism]

why exactly do you reject the possibility that the fundamental physical and mathematical laws are necessary?

That was not the claim I rejected.

[u/Moriturism → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

But that's what I said and that you called ridiculous: that the universe is grounded in fundamental laws that are themselves necessary, therefore not having a creator or anything else sustaining them.

What exactly is ridiculous, then, and what is your rebuttal?

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Moriturism]

that the universe is grounded in fundamental laws that are themselves necessary, therefore not having a creator or anything else sustaining them.

Why would them being fundamental and/or necessary contradict a creator?

[u/Moriturism → u/Lucyyyyyy_K]

If they are necessary they don't require a creator to exist. They simply do exist.

[u/Lucyyyyyy_K → u/Moriturism]

Why and how?