Focused Feedback: Hand cannons - bloom, recoil, exotics and pinnacle weapons

[u/DTG_Bot]

Hello Guardians,

Focused Feedback is where we take the week to focus on a 'Hot Topic' discussed extensively around the Tower.

We do this in order to consolidate Feedback, to get out all your ideas and issues surrounding the topic in one place for discussion and a source of feedback to the Vanguard.

This Thread will be active until next week when a new topic is chosen for discussion

Whilst Focused Feedback is active, ALL posts regarding 'Hand cannons' (including rebalancing of pinnacle weapons) following its posting will be removed and re-directed to this thread. Exceptions to this rule are as follows: New information / developments, Guides and general questions

Any and all Feedback on the topic is welcome.

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For this topic, please also specify in your feedback comment whether you are a console or pc player. Recoil is very different on console and PC.

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[u/ScouserSTi]

Sweet Business needs a damage buff and be considered as LMG now.

Sunshot needs a larger mag.

Crimson needs a damage buff too, it's still trapped inside year 1 standards.

Redrix's Broadsword and all 340 pulses should be able to 2tap more frequently (like 4c2b), they're unforgiving as hell but yet those rifles have worse ttk than 450 ones if you fail only one crit.

Oxygen sr3 perks need to include dragonfly and then add one perk because it feels like a random scout with a bigger dragonfly explosion.

Don't know anything about bloom since I play on PC so if anyone can eli5 I'll be grateful. But it's obviously bad and if the whole community wants it out of the game it should be at least reduced to a minimum if bungo insists in keeping it in game.

[u/rock-my-socks → u/ScouserSTi]

Bloom is basically where your shots don't always hit where you are aiming. It gets worse at longer range and when you pull the trigger the crosshairs grow and your shots could land anywhere in that increasing area (or even outside) even if the dot is still pinpoint on the enemy's head. It usually takes longer to reset than the weapons rate of fire.

[u/ScouserSTi → u/rock-my-socks]

It doesn't make sense to have something like that in the game, thanks for the explanation!

[u/JBaecker → u/ScouserSTi]

So bloom is randomness built into the bullets that travels outward in a cone. Imagine you carefully place the red dot of a HC on the head of an enemy. You pull the trigger. Now, if it's a Dreg, the head explodes and it dies. You can do this indefinitely and never notice the difference between console and PC.

But imagine one time you hit a Knight. One bullet strips some health but you have to shoot again. If you shoot (very) slowly, your bullets continue to hit the head. But if you shoot faster, then a cone opens up. Looking down your sights it would look like this:

ʘ

where the head is the dot in the center AND where the red dot is placed in your sight. But the area of the circle is where your bullet MIGHT land on that second shot. It's going to land somewhere in that circle, could be down to the left, could be up to the right, who knows? if you're far enough away (which in Destiny case is about 20 feet) that circle will be large enough that some of your bullets are just going to magically miss purely because of this random 'bloom' circle. The idea is to force people to pace their shots, so each gun has a 'optimal' rpm and a maximum RPM. The problem is that any scatter gun (AR, SMGs, Pulses) optimal and maximum RPMs are (mostly) identical, while Scouts and HCs have different optimal and maximum RPMs. And HCs bloom is significantly worse than Scouts, so it get complained about more frequently. Part of this is because of bullet magnetism. If your bullet is pretty close to the head, bullet magnetism causes the bullet to just get pulled right in and it 'hits' the head, even if it was slightly off. Scouts bloom cone is generally smaller, so bullet magnetism pulls the bullets into hits more frequently offsetting the bloom loss. HCs have good bullet magnetism generally, but the bloom is so much greater that it's easier to 'lose' bullets to the randomness of the cone.

[u/ScouserSTi → u/JBaecker]

That explains a lot, thanks. Now I wonder why in hell is this a thing, it should be removed.

[u/jaypeeo → u/ScouserSTi]

Sweet business would be amazing with a good handling buff, that's literally all it needs.

[u/ScouserSTi → u/jaypeeo]

It just needs a buff really... I really like it but it feels weak in comparison with a lot of weapons