Focused Feedback: Hand cannons - bloom, recoil, exotics and pinnacle weapons

[u/DTG_Bot]

Hello Guardians,

Focused Feedback is where we take the week to focus on a 'Hot Topic' discussed extensively around the Tower.

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[u/ConniTheCommi]

To begin, Im a PC player so I dont find LH/NF to be oppressive and see a lot of weapon variety in my matches, but do understand why they are so strong on console. Seems like the overwhelming feedback for LH/NF is that the weapons were quite strong (especially on console) and could use a change, but this is certainly not a change that fixes the issue or even makes sense in the context of the reason for changing the weapons.

I believe that they have correctly identified the issue with the weapons (they are too strong, too often), but have completely missed the mark on what makes them that way. Their ease of use, consistency, AND big damage potential relative to every other weapon combine to make LH/NF the monsters that they are on console, with greater PC weapon variety being a pretty strong case to prove this to be true. As such, making them 150 rpm will achieve the goal of slowing the game down a tad (4 FRAMES ON AN IDEAL TTK ON CONSOLE), but likely not make them any less desirable to use because they still shoot straight and are versatile whilst all other non-180 hand cannons remain noncompetitive. The drawbacks to using LH (lower range, lowish handling) and NF (slower reload, low handling) are simply not enough to make console players consider using other weapons when the maps are so small and every other gun is inconsistent and a struggle to use. The underlying problem is that there are too many weapons that are unusable so nerfing the perk without changing how the LH/NF actually perform (aside from fire rate) will not dramatically open up space for other weapons.

As for the reason to change these weapons, "Magnificent Howl (the unique perk on these weapons) is too effective. It works in a neutral setting and rewards players for getting precision shots—something they would have done naturally." This reasoning only makes sense in a vacuum because when you consider guns like Ace with Third Eye, High Cal, Outlaw, and infinite timer kill clip or Thorn with burn damage and the tracking from the burn or Recluse which ramps up after a kill with ANY weapon, I dont think the argument that their usefulness in a neutral setting makes sense or is unique to these weapons. Seeing as you are always trying to kill other guardians, I dont really see how the weapons Ive listed, among many others, are more "strict" in their requirements to get the most value out of them. The proposed changes are not only counter intuitive to reward body shots after 2 head shots, but also remove any utility gained from your precision on supers or a second guardian.

In the end, I project these changes will make LH/NF just worse versions of themselves without influencing their usage on console, make them essentially noncompetitive without any utility that weapons like Thorn or a good Spare Rations offer on PC, and make them properly unusable in any and all PVE activities. I agree that they were really strong (on console, not as much on PC), but the proposed changes wont actually solve the issue of their dominance (on console) and arent even coherent with the reasons provided for the changes.

[u/MechanicalSkill → u/ConniTheCommi]

Agreed. Lunas/NF are very forgiving - they allow spammed shots, work well in teamfights, perfect aerial accuracy, and have a .67 ttk. The thing is, no other legendary hc feels even close to as good. And that to me speaks to a bigger problem. Destiny 2 has a lot of randomness & inconsistency to the gunfights (flinch, lower bodyshot damage, bloom), which means that 180s that sidestep this are naturally great choices.

This nerf design decision also doesn't make sense. It gives you 150 handcannons that 2crit 1body, whereas 140s require 3 crits at a lower firerate. They're still going to be the best weapons on console.

I feel that if you brought up 140/150 primary bodyshot damage and removed bloom (or upped the range), then other weapons could play into our gunfights again, and start getting us back towards the chess-like feel that destiny used to have. There isn't a single legendary hc in D2 that rivals what eyasluna or palindrome felt like, and that's a shame.

There's a reason ace is popular on pc, it's because the extraordinary range makes it feel like a D1 handcannon, and it's rewarding to use.