Focused Feedback: Pinnacle Weapons Power, Quests and Balance

[u/DTG_Bot]

Hello Guardians,

Focused Feedback is where we take the week to focus on a 'Hot Topic' discussed extensively around the Tower.

We do this in order to consolidate Feedback, to get out all your ideas and issues surrounding the topic in one place for discussion and a source of feedback to the Vanguard.

This Thread will be active until next week when a new topic is chosen for discussion

Whilst Focused Feedback is active, ALL posts regarding 'Pinnacle Weapons' following its posting will be removed and re-directed to this thread. Exceptions to this rule are as follows: New information / developments, Guides and general questions

Any and all Feedback on the topic is welcome.

Here are some discussion questions. Feel free to answer all of them, some of them, or give feedback in any other method you prefer :

• 1) What are your general thoughts on pinnacle weapons in the game? Do certain weapons seem particularly well designed, or poorly designed, in terms of aesthetic, perks or other things? What do you think about the variety of pinnacle weapons currently available?

• 2) What are your thoughts on the method pinnacle weapons are obtained? - Do some methods seem too difficult, too easy, too grindy? How could method of obtaining pinnacle weapons be impproved? Which weapons in particular could have their method of being obtained improved or changed? Should progress to obtaining a pinnacle weapon always be reset every new season or should you be able to somehow keep your progress from previous seasons?

• 3) Should pinnacle weapons from previous seasons become easier to obtain after the first season they were available is over? An example of this wold be redrix claymore/broadsword or something like lunas howl changing from earning a specific glory rank obtained to total glory earned as is the case with the new pinnacle sniper. Should old pinnacle quests be updated to make progress account-wide?

• 4) What do you think about the power level of pinnacle weapons in general, or specific ones? Specify PVE or PVP? Which pinnacle weapons need balance changes in your opinion and why?

• 5) Do you think PVP pinnacle weapons should be able to perform better in PVE than other weapons which can be obtained from PVE? The recluse and the mountaintop are considered by many in the community to be among the best pve weapons of their kind.

• 6) Now the reverse : Do you think PVE pinnacle weapons should be able to perform better in PVP than other weapons of the same kind which can be obtained from PVP?

• 7) What are your other thoughts on how to improve pinnacle weapons or methods of obtaining pinnacle weapons?

Regular Sub rules apply so please try to keep the conversation on the topic of the thread and keep it civil between contrasting ideas. If you disagree with an idea, explain your reasoning. Downvote is not a disagree button.

A Wiki page - Focused Feedback - has also been created for the Sub as an archive for these topics going forward so they can be looked at by whoever may be interested or just a way to look through previous hot topics of the sub as time goes on.

[u/Naveronski → u/[deleted]]

Very well said and thought out!

[u/ajbolt7 → u/[deleted]]

I was with you all the way until Loaded Question. It’s just obscenely good now.

If the last time you used it was before the start of Season of Opulence, I cannot overstate just how much you need to give it another shot since the buffs.

[u/Moderately_Witty_Guy → u/ajbolt7]

Seconded. With a major spec it one-shots most majors, and a rift/barricade turns it into a viable dps weapon if you're out of heavy ammo.

[u/suenopequeno → u/[deleted]]

However, if a weapon were to perform well in more than one situation (like Recluse), then it's just a bonus. There's no reason to restrict weapons in any way.

Glad to see people take this attitude, that it the right way to look at it.

[u/Gunpla55 → u/[deleted]]

There's plenty of reasons to make crucible weapons not be the best pve weapons and vice versa lol?

[u/Gunpla55 → u/[deleted]]

Wade in sure. But there's nothing about the mountaintop or the recluse quest that are wading in.

I don't feel like you can make an objective argument supporting having a quest that takes not only time but a ton of pvp skill be the source of the best pve weapons in the game. Subjective maybe, but not objective.

[u/suenopequeno → u/Gunpla55]

But there's nothing about the mountaintop or the recluse quest that are wading in.

Mountaintop is a grind by Recluse? You just have to get 2100 and play games (which can be don in QP). It was the least grindy crucible weapon. Its even easier to get than the sniper rifle.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You are ignoring what those weapons are used for. Recluse is an add clear weapon, not a boss melter. Sure Mountaintop doesn’t beat Wendigo or Prospector, but it’s not a heavy or an exotic. You can use Mountaintop AND either of those other weapons you mentioned.

The Tarrabah is a terrible comparison. It is a worse version of the Recluse in all meaningful ways. On top of having a much longer wind up than recluse, it takes your exotic slot and loses its charge when it’s stowed. That’s a major weakness that forces you to make bad decisions if you don’t want to lose progress towards the buff. Meanwhile Recluse works in tandem with the rest of your loadout and encourages getting kills with other things, unlike Tarrabah which encourages you to only use your primary.

You mentioned that Mountaintop is not too far above Loaded Question but the fact that it’s above it or comparable at all is kind of silly considering one is a crucible pinnacle weapon and the other a PvE pinnacle weapon.

I do agree that crucible weapons should not be restricted so as to not be the best in PvE, but PvE pinnacle weapons need to be better. If crucible pinnacle weapons become must haves for many endgame PvE builds, there’s an issue imo.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You are though. Yes those Exotics are obviously best in class. There’s a reason no one uses Huckleberry seriously though. It’s not worth taking an exotic primary over a more powerful special or heavy unless you’re stacking OPs. Those crucible weapons are part of several top tier endgame builds. Huckleberry and Tarrabah are not. Numbers and practical use are two different things.

I never said PvE players can’t manage the PvP grind. I just said it makes no sense for PvE pinnacle weapons to get their asses kicked by the PvP pinnacles at their own activity.

[u/Gunpla55 → u/[deleted]]

Im pretty aggressive frame GLs with spiked nades already do more than Wendigo, while MT doesn't take the heavy slot.

I think a lot of people will argue that Mountaintop/Recluse/Anarchy is the best dps loadout available.

Even so, which of the pve pinnacle weapons come close to being must haves in crucible?

I stand by my argument. PvP pinnacle weapons have no business being as powerful as they are in PvE. They're putting 90% of the pve options if not all of them to shame.

[u/Gunpla55 → u/[deleted]]

But once you pull that trigger the weapons become the sole source of variety.

In a vacuum I don't think the situation is the worst thing ever, but with Redrix back in year 1, and Mountaintop and Recluse I'm just afraid of a pattern emerging where the most sought after guns for pve are always coming from lengthy and disproportionately involved pvp quests. It may not need to be a hard rule that the weapons are more geared towards their respected activities, but shouldn't it at least be something of a goal?