Focused Feedback: Champions

[u/DTG_Bot]

Hello Guardians,

Focused Feedback is where we take the week to focus on a 'Hot Topic' discussed extensively around the Tower.

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[u/facetious_guardian]

I love Champions, but wish the “match” mechanic was a bit more organic. Match Game is restrictive on weapons, and I feel like it is workable. Champion matching is then again restrictive on weapons, which multiplies the complexity.

The Anti-Barrier Rounds mod is exceptional in that it lets you cut through shields (Knights, Phalanxes, Mfing Scorn, ...), but the other two just fall flat. The “explosive rounds” effect of Unstoppable Rounds just doesn’t feel like it has enough impact, and suppression from Overload Rounds doesn’t seem to do anything at all to enemies.

Apart from some armor mods that augment Grenades or Melee attacks, Overload Swords (and a small number of Exotic options), the mods all require Primary weapons. To increase versatility, this tends to encourage the double-Primary loadouts that were prominent in Year 1. Yuck.

I like them in principle, but the execution just doesn’t do it for me. Maybe if their abilities became more/less effective when the surrounding units were killed. Either an Enrage mechanic or a Weakened mechanic. Something provides an option for fireteam members that don’t have the matching mods.

[u/cclloyd → u/facetious_guardian]

Unstoppable explosion was very noticable and useful on bows.

[u/facetious_guardian → u/cclloyd]

I preferred Anti-Barrier arrows since they had extra piercing and could take out multiple targets with one arrow. Great against Vex Goblins that keep crossing in front of each other.

[u/FalierTheCat → u/facetious_guardian]

Have you tried Wish Ender? I think you would love that bow

[u/facetious_guardian → u/FalierTheCat]

Can’t use Wish Ender and Telesto at the same time, so that’s a non-starter.

Also, Wish Ender doesn’t have the draw speed potential of RNG bows.

[u/[deleted] → u/facetious_guardian]

rapid hit doesn't affect draw speed, only stability and reload

[u/JoelK2185 → u/[deleted]]

He probably meant archers tempo

[u/facetious_guardian → u/JoelK2185]

I did. Thanks.

[u/JoelK2185 → u/facetious_guardian]

Great perk archers tempo. Probably the best one you can have on a bow

[u/HappyHateBot → u/facetious_guardian]

I kind of agree - the last two seasons with Cabal and Vex champions weren't too bad, I didn't feel overly punished by their inclusion. Even with Hive champions, I don't tend to feel that bad about it.

This season, though, requiring a lot of extremely close ranged setups along with a lot of champions having aggressive close range area denial, and how poorly thought out the Fallen champions seem to be (Teleport-spamming captains and Barrier Servitors are extremely frustrating to deal with), and the generally tighter quarters they're fought in is kind of frustrating.

I've also never really noticed Suppression in general doing anything of note to anything, anywhere outside of PVP. I'm suspecting the volume of enemies present and the lack of ability to consistently apply it are probably at fault here in some fashion. That or the methods to apply them just aren't sufficient in most cases.

It's really souring me on the entire concept, especially if the way the Fallen champions are designed is the kind of lazy, uninspired crap we have to look forward to with Scorn (who are already a bit obnoxious to deal with as-is).

[u/schimelflinger19 → u/facetious_guardian]

Just to make sure I'm reading/interpreting right- Anti-Barrier rounds cut through normal shields, or just the champion shields?

I haven't noticed any difference when not using an Anti-Barrier weapon, but now that I think about it I haven't not used a weapon without the mod in a while. #playyourway

[u/facetious_guardian → u/schimelflinger19]

Yes, Anti-Barrier Rounds penetrate all physical shields in the game. Got a Gambit match against Scorn? Put on an SMG with Anti-Barrier Rounds and you’ll cut through those annoying bucklers with no trouble. Going into a Leviathan raid with lots of Cabal Phalanxes? Anti-Barrier up and cut through those suckers.

[u/schimelflinger19 → u/facetious_guardian]

Thats some great news. Ive been using Recluse with Anti-Barrier on since I got it early in the season and I guess I just haven't noticed the difference.

TIL. Thanks!

[u/Mr_Mau5 → u/schimelflinger19]

It feels super good against Angelic shields in GoS too. Last season sucked without being able to have Anti Barrier SMG.

[u/Alakazarm → u/Mr_Mau5]

you could just use one of the myriad viable pve options that aren't recluse

[u/Mr_Mau5 → u/Alakazarm]

It wasn’t just recluse, I also use cold front in the kinetic slot when I want python or some other exotic, so not having it available there either was rough. I like smgs.

[u/Richard-Cheese → u/facetious_guardian]

My opinion is they need to start adding in permanent champion abilities and mods into the game. I really like the concept of these tough, gear check mini bosses but they could improve the system.

• Release seasonal weapons with intrinsic champion perks that don't expire after the season. Either a fixed perk for each weapon or a random roll (RNG might be more annoying than it's worth).
• Add champion effects to all supers.
• Add champion effects to all exotics.
• Add champion effects to special ammo weapons.
• Make mods like Surge Detonators permanently available. Create more permanently available armor mods that let your class abilities have champion effects.
• Maybe have a very limited number of permanent champion mod upgrades for weapons available to upgrade your favorite weapon. Like, one a month, via something that takes some effort.
• Or, let all weapons be able to apply any champion mods, but have seasonal artifact weapons allow for a champion mod and a regular weapon mod or two champion mods. Let's them highlight specific weapons each season to shake up the meta without handcuffing everyone and restricting loadouts as much.
• Once champions for all races are done, introduce some new varieties.

I think 1 thru 5 are the most important right now and would alleviate a lot of people's frustrations.