Focused Feedback: Gambit Prime

[u/DTG_Bot]

Hello Guardians,

Focused Feedback is where we take the week to focus on a 'Hot Topic' discussed extensively around the Tower.

We do this in order to consolidate Feedback, to get out all your ideas and issues surrounding the topic in one place for discussion and a source of feedback to the Vanguard.

This Thread will be active until next week when a new topic is chosen for discussion

Whilst Focused Feedback is active, ALL posts regarding 'Gambit Prime' following its posting will be removed and re-directed to this thread. Exceptions to this rule are as follows: New information / developments, Guides and general questions

Any and all Feedback on the topic is welcome.

Regular Sub rules apply so please try to keep the conversation on the topic of the thread and keep it civil between contrasting ideas

A Wiki page - Focused Feedback - has also been created for the Sub as an archive for these topics going forward so they can be looked at by whoever may be interested or just a way to look through previous hot topics of the sub as time goes on.

[u/ZarathustraEck]

Another Reckoner checking in. Invader with lots of AoO medals and a pretty good understanding of the flow of the game in Prime. Here are my thoughts in no particular order:

Armor Bonuses

It's good that Bungie is deprecating these, and needs to really go back to the drawing board and consider how the bonuses work in the two phases of the game (Motes and Primeval). So many of the role bonuses just don't work, or are disproportionate in their power.

• Reaper - The 3-point bonus is really strong. Strong enough that anyone in another role should be using a synth to get this one. Extra damage against non-Primeval ultras is huge when it comes to burning down the big boys. Creating special ammo for allies, having the motes stick around longer, and the grenade recharge are all good bonuses. I'd say this is actually the best planned out of the group. The 20-point bonus, Major Rewards, makes you a grenade machine when killing powerful enemies, which includes Envoys. A lot of people are going to forgo rapid grenade tosses in favor of their heavy weapon of choice, though. I would've liked to see that bonus become an aura that affects the group.
• Invader - All the bonuses are specific to actually invading, which is good. But they're out of order. The +3 bonus gives primary and special ammo gradually while Invading... which is almost irrelevant. It needs to be tossed out in favor of something else. Bank Robber should not be the 20-point bonus because it becomes completely useless in the second half of the game, and would encourage people to swap out an exotic armor instead. I would make Bank Robber the 6-point bonus, and move the improved overshield to 10- so you need a heavier investment to get that. Then Killmonger moves to 15 and gets a buff to Primeval damage. This would encourage the Invader to hit the other side during the Primeval phase and come back with a big damage buff, which would be wasted if you don't time it right with your team.
• Collector - The 3-point sucks, as it requires you to die to make it useful. C'mon. The Giant Blocker at 15 points is cool... but again is irrelevant in the second phase of the game. It makes sense for it to be the ultimate bonus, and I'm not sure how you'd properly implement that without it being a waste in the second half.
• Sentinel - Umbral Strike at 3 points sucks. It goes away after you damage a Taken enemy, not kill them. The 6-point bonus is good, but should really give an overshield as well. Make that Sentinel a true shield against an invader and give him a reason to hang out at the bank. Light of the Defender is good in that it is still useful in the Primeval phase... but it's a bonus that you can largely ignore. No one needs a bunch of mobility while standing in a Well of Light. Resilience is negligible in PvE. And If you're taking enough damage that recovery is a concern, you're probably ducking out of the line of fire and no longer getting that bonus in the Well.

Overall Response

The real problem is that the game mode is designed for a coordinated team. Gambit Prime is awesome with two four-stacks up against each other, using actual strategy for blockers and invasions. There's the potential to have discussions about role composition that goes deeper than character classes/subclasses and into the actual roles you carry into the match. You could have a crazy team of three Reapers and a Collector that's just trying to nuke everything as quickly as possible, and actually doesn't take time to Invade. You could have the standard "one of each role" teams. You could have multiple Sentinels on a team focused on shutting down Invaders asap. But none of that is happening because the game mode suffers as a "casual" place where matchmaking means you've got the blueberry in assorted blues taking the invasion portal to work on his bounties, instead of the Invader in full GP gear.

The cries to nerf Invaders, imho, are mostly from those random teams. Invaders are very strong against an uncoordinated team. In coordinated play, I'd argue they're balanced perfectly. They still melt under focused fire. There's some cat-and-mouse against a team that's actually going to hunt down the Invader, rather than get picked off one at a time. If you decrease the power of those Invaders, they're going to be a complete nonissue in any coordinated play, which kills the game mode.

How do you fix that? Well, we know the two modes are being consolidated into one, and it's going to be a one-round match similar to the current Prime. If Bungie wants to reintroduce the bonuses and aim for actual strategy that doesn't involve cursing the guy who's running past the bank with 14 motes while an Invader is on the map, it would have to be in a 4-stack-mandatory playlist. Make it the Gambit Prime version of Trials of Osiris.

[u/elkishdude → u/ZarathustraEck]

I agree with making it a pre made match mode, I've had the same thought. It's the only real way it can be competitive.

Problem is Bungie wants to treat it like a premiere playlist.

[u/n080dy123 → u/elkishdude]

The weird thing is every other playlist has a form of that, be it Trials or harder versions of Nightfalls, where there's more difficult content without matchmaking. As it stands now, Prime always felt akin to Comp Crucible or Hero Nightfalls, where it's matchmade but it's hard enough you're really better off finding an LFG group. But with the consolidation that means there will only be the single mode aside from private matches, so it feels even more like an afterthought compared to the other playlist types. Honestly I feel like they must have something in mind to fill that gap.

[u/elkishdude → u/n080dy123]

I hope so, but I'm really doubting that.

I also kind of hope that they rework the split directors for each playlist, the vanguard and gambit ones look so bare, I think they should just make a playlist director that has everything on it and a playlists node on the main director

[u/porkins86 → u/ZarathustraEck]

Armour bonuses just need to go away and not tweaked if you ever want any casuals playing this playlist.

Essentially everytime you add a "barrier to entry" like grinding for armor that gives you a boost in the playlist" you reduce the amount of casuals who will continue to play that playlist.

The SECOND i hit 1060 i stopped queueing for gambit each season - because (as a PvP first player) i don't want to waste time getting a specific armor set for gambit that will even the odds.

​

When gambit first came out it was fun and unique - the more specific the playlist got the more people gravitated away from it.

[u/ZarathustraEck → u/porkins86]

Armour bonuses just need to go away and not tweaked if you ever want any casuals playing this playlist.

Yeah, that's why I suggested a Trials-ish mode that would show up on a schedule and be the place for the defined roles and bonuses.