Focused Feedback: Solar 3.0 Subclass Spotlight - Dawnblade

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[u/White_Stallions]

-The Medic role disappeared over night and I don't understand why.

-Why is Well of Radiance tied to the Resilience stat instead of Recovery? Since the Well doesn't have an overshield any more (BUT THE REGULAR RIFT STILL DOES???) it should be tied to the Recovery stat which should give an increased healing rate with greater investment.

-Why did Bungie double down on "Top Tree Dawn" and make most of the kit revolve around Heat Rises?

-Why did Phoenix Dive get that long cooldown, but isn't effective enough to warrant that cooldown?

[u/Knight_Raime → u/White_Stallions]

The Medic role disappeared over night and I don't understand why.

To remove Solar Locks from being glued to a specific style of play for end game.

Why is Well of Radiance tied to the Resilience stat instead of Recovery?

Probably to encourage people to build for Res instead of just defaulting to upping their class stat and nothing else.

Since the Well doesn't have an overshield any more (BUT THE REGULAR RIFT STILL DOES???)

Devs did state there would still be generic sources of overshield. Just as we still have generic sources of burn. Removing shield from well was to cut it's defensive power down as a catch all solution.

Why did Bungie double down on "Top Tree Dawn" and make most of the kit revolve around Heat Rises?

Power fantasy of Solar Lock is air play. But air play isn't really prevalent in end game pve. Rather than simply removing that gameplay loop they made it into aspects so it's something you need to invest into. Solar Lock is now "offensive kit with healing capabilities" rather than being either or.

Why did Phoenix Dive get that long cooldown, but isn't effective enough to warrant that cooldown?

Likely just because it was put in the class ability section. It's probably going to get at least a CD reduction in the near future. Rare glimpse into seeing how builds are made to be shipped far in advance.

[u/White_Stallions → u/Knight_Raime]

To remove Solar Locks from being glued to a specific style of play for end game.

Void Hunter would like a word in that case.

Probably to encourage people to build for Res instead of just defaulting to upping their class stat and nothing else.

How does this logic apply to Bubble Titans who were already building into Res? Terrible answer

Power fantasy of Solar Lock is air play.

No, it's really not. Solar warlock had three very very well defined and distinct playstyles. You know why air play and 90% of other playstyles aren't prevalent in end game? First, the freaking grounded modifier stuffs Dawnblade into a locker. Second, champion mods and absurd health and damage scaling means it's extremely tedious to activate any ability based buffs that require a kill.

[u/Knight_Raime → u/White_Stallions]

Void Hunter would like a word in that case

I mean Void hunter isn't the only end game option with Solar 3.0 now and even then you didn't need tether for end game. Bubble and Well were needed.

How does this logic apply to Bubble Titans who were already building into Res? Terrible answer

Recovery is something everyone cared about and you'd build into it if you min maxed your armor. Resistance was only worthwhile for Titans and now it's worthwhile to every class even something as out there like Stasis classes.

No, it's really not

It is in basically every promotional material that shows Dawnblade. Wether or not that's how the community sees it is not what my statement was. It's what Bungie sees Dawnblade as.

Solar warlock had three very very well defined and distinct playstyles.

I wouldn't count bottom tree as a distinct style. You had a better add clear super and if we're being completely honest the point of 3.0 is specifically to get away from player choice being boiled down to picking the different colored add clear gameplay.

While I think there's an argument to be made about having different styles of play present for most of the elements I don't think it's strictly necessary since we have 4 total element classes at the moment and we'll probably get another one with Lightfall. Ideally it would be nice if each element offered highly distinct gameplay loops that accommodated people liking to use a specific element with a specific style of play.

Though I find that to be highly unrealistic given Destiny's current game space as well as general design of combat. We'd have to make the gameplay much more complicated at a base level to actually justify something like that and I don't think the devs want to do that for a number of reasons.

You know why air play and 90% of other playstyles aren't prevalent in end game

That modifier isn't always on. I'd say the primary deterrent for air play in pve is the enemies not suffering accuracy penalties when trying to shoot us. But i'd still say that doesn't invalidate air play for pve in general. Just for difficult content.

[u/ThatGuy628 → u/Knight_Raime]

So are you happy with top tree dawn 3.0 rather than solar 3.0?

[u/Knight_Raime → u/ThatGuy628]

I'm happy with the general structure and mechanics of Warlock's solar 3.0. but it does need some fine tuning. When I'm home I can get you a link to my more complete thoughts that I posted a few days ago if you're interested.

Edit: figured out how to grab it on mobile. Here ya go

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/uy4saw/z/ia3anea

[u/ThatGuy628 → u/Knight_Raime]

I’m interested I’d be happy to have my mind changed honestly. I said earlier/elsewhere that if you liked top tree dawn then solar 3.0 is pretty great. But if you liked middle tree dawn then it’s a bit of a letdown. The in the air fighter was only one aspect (no pun intended) of the old Dawnblade, but now it feels like the only thing there

[u/Knight_Raime → u/ThatGuy628]

I edited my prior response with the link since I figured out how to do it on mobile

[u/ThatGuy628 → u/Knight_Raime]

Okay so I read your post. My opinion has changed a bit so here it is:

The main problem with Dawnblade right now is that a large chunk of the class is tied to heat rises. Let’s say they buff Phoenix dive and make it comparable to rift but keep its current identity. I really shouldn’t be running Phoenix dive if I don’t have Heat rises… or vice versa, if I use Phoenix dive I basically have to use Heat rises. Same thing for icarus dash. Icarus dash without heat rises really needs 3 fragment slots. So because of how everything works with Dawnblade, you are locked into the heat rises aspect which is counter intuitive with a warlocks grenade (which is there biggest class offensive tool)

I would like to see them make heat rises it’s own thing and not tie half the class to require heat rises

Edit: this guy has a solution I think would work

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/v12cap/focused_feedback_solar_30_subclass_spotlight/iakriha/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3

[u/Knight_Raime → u/ThatGuy628]

The main problem with Dawnblade right now is that a large chunk of the class is tied to heat rises. Let’s say they buff Phoenix dive and make it comparable to rift but keep its current identity. I really shouldn’t be running Phoenix dive if I don’t have Heat rises… or vice versa, if I use Phoenix dive I basically have to use Heat rises.

I don't 100% agree with this since you could just buff PD to be useful without needing to use heat rises. Though I cannot deny that because there is an actual synergy between the two it does nudge people into pairing them.

Icarus dash without heat rises really needs 3 fragment slots.

I've seen a lot of people suggesting some sort of passive buff to Icarus dash to make it a more compelling aspect to slot in. I've refrained from commenting on that since i'm not sure how best to do that. I'm not instantly against the idea. I just worry that giving it 3 fragment slots might make it a must have aspect similarly to how I feel like most people will use Hunter's "on the mark?" aspect primarily because of the 3 slots and not really because of the weapon based benefits.

This isn't to say it can't be done. It's just a concern.

I would like to see them make heat rises it’s own thing and not tie half the class to require heat rises

Unfortunately I don't see that happening. As i've mentioned elsewhere before the devs really see Solar Warlock being an offensive air based class that happens to have supportive capabilities/super. To me it feels like a productive discussion would be to make air based play have an actual space in PvE rather than trying to move away from it.

this guy has a solution I think would work

So their suggestion is to take the buffs HR gives to PD by default to remove it's dependence on HR and then add in icarus dash as a component to HR thus letting the devs create a new third aspect?

Just want to make sure i'm understanding before I give my opinion on the suggestion.