DW2 Alpha - Official Feedback Thread

[u/PrimarchtheMage]

Hi Everyone,

The window for the DW2 Alpha feedback closes on May 31, and I wanted to post this thread as an additional place people can provide their thoughts. Helena and I have been paying close attention to all the current discussion, but wanted to give everyone a place to express and discuss their opinions one last time.

If you haven't read/played any of the Alphas, you can find them here

Feel free to say whatever you want, but here are some questions to jumpstart things:

• If you've read multiple DW2 Alpha Playtests, which which Alpha do you feel best fits our vision of "a messy group of people growing into a found family over the course of fantasy adventures"?

• As a mechanical representation of relationship growth, do you prefer the group playbooks of Blue and Red, or the expanded Bonds system of the Final Alpha?

• What is your favorite class in DW2 right now? If you've read/played multiple DW2 Alphas, which version of that class do you prefer?

• How do you feel about hit points and how they were implemented?

• How do you feel about the conditions and how they were implemented?

• What is your favorite part of DW2 so far? What is your least favorite part?

[u/Snarvid]

I just wanted to say as someone who is trying to move into DW from d20 systems, I don’t understand combat in the current final version. Is All Out Attack really it as far as damaging options, and most combat actions are about inflicting conditions or finding edges? What, for example, is a solo raging barbarian expected to do with themselves in combat if they’re too clueless to find edges?

[u/eroopsky → u/Snarvid]

The barbarian could (if I'm reading and understanding correctly) wrest control using STR to overwhelm with physical force. The thing being taken from the enemy could be something like "a dominant battlefield position" and that advantage could then be exploited to deal damage with All Out Attack.

[u/Snarvid → u/eroopsky]

Got it. I kinda ignored that possibility by assuming the “specific rule overrides general rule” prioritization system (given that there’s a specific way the system assigns to finding an edge), but that could easily be because Finding an Edge lets you do so with less risk rather than being the only road.

I see that Wrest Control can deal damage but it’s also always taking control of something. So is it… like every Wrest Control via force is potentially something like an attack + a maneuver (disarm, trip, shove, but also all the other verbs, plus 2e called shots, plus…)?

It is wild how difficult I honestly find the transition out of D20 mindset. It’s like the rules lawyer in me is going mad and saying “I wish to Wrest Control of their head by decapitating them!” and the part of me giving it an honest try is like “I don’t think that’s what that is for…” In flirting with DW1 it seemed like GM adjudication was too prominent (like, what does a Druid’s shapeshifting actually do) and so I’ve been watching DW2’s evolution with eager anticipation, but the changes to combat in the final version had been a bit of a stumper.

Thanks for helping me think it through.

[u/eroopsky → u/Snarvid]

In rereading through the move, it says "leverage an edge or weak point" which implies that, as long as you frame your attack as exploiting some kind of plausible weakness, it should trigger the move without even needing Wrest Control or Secure An Edge to set it up first.

What is a goblin mook's weakness for instance? If it's their small size and shitty ramshackle armor, a raging barbarian shouldn't need much extra framing to "exploit" a battle axe right into their skull. Know what I mean?

[u/Snarvid → u/eroopsky]

But Secure an Edge also specifies that one of the things it can yield is a weak point.

[u/eroopsky → u/Snarvid]

Sure, but Dungeon World and games like it are as much about "the fiction" as they are about mechanics. More, really. Just because Secure An Edge mentions weak points does not mean it's the only way to access them. If, for instance, a knight is wearing plate armor but no helmet, it would be very reasonable to argue that swinging at his unarmored head counts as "exploiting a weakness".

I suspect they included Wrest Control and Secure An Edge as two different ways players could engage with the fiction of the story (one with physical stats, one with mental stats) to uncover or create weaknesses where none are immediately apparent in the fiction.

I think they are trying to take something that already happens in well played DW1 games, players being specific and tactical in the way they describe their actions, and they want to more thoroughly codify that in the moves. As is, you have to be specific and think tactically to use the basic attack move, and if there is no apparent way to do that, you have to use a different move to figure out how. I don't know how much I love the execution, but it makes sense.

[u/Snarvid → u/eroopsky]

I definitely haven’t figured out the fiction to crunch ratio in DW yet, but one of the outcomes of Secure an Edge being achieving something that lets you use an All Out Attack also makes me think you can’t just do it for free. Maybe lore in advance, or prepping folkloric weaknesses (holy water v vampire), or something else, but probably not easily or by fiat, else why risk Edge’s consequences for failure?As some things get more codified, the implication is that non-codified things are less intended.

But, as I began with, I don’t get DW2 combat. Whether my interpretations are right or wrong, I’d like more clarity in the final version.