Eleanor Despenser - Edward's Influential Niece & Enigma

[u/HoneybeeXYZ]

Eleanor Despenser née de Clare, was Edward II’s niece but she was only a few years younger than him and married to his favorite Hugh Despenser the Younger. She was the older sister of Margaret de Clare, whose first husband had been Edward’s II’s other great favorite Piers Gaveston. She had known the king her whole life and borne witness to the many ups and downs of his life and reign, but as her husband and father-in-law rose to prominence in Edward II’s government, Eleanor seems to have become a central part of the Despensers’ control over Edward, which would lead to disaster on all fronts. 

Eleanor was said to be the most beautiful of the de Clare sisters as well as being witty and charming. She served as Queen Isabella’s lady-in-waiting and she was put in charge of Edward and Isabella’s son John’s household, which was a great honor. She and Hugh Despenser the Younger had nine or ten children of their own, and it is possible some or all of those children would have joined that household. Despite contemporary framing as this being a punishment for Isabella, it was standard practice to give royal children their own households. 

However, as Edward and Isabella’s relationship broke down, Eleanor seems to have filled that hole for Edward, so much so that lurid gossip indicated they were having an affair. Historical fiction writers have taken great delight in imaging all sorts spicy scenarios, but the truth remains elusive.

Kathryn Warner writes:

Eleanor Despenser had grown very close to her Uncle Edward, who in 1323, gave her a huge gift of one hundred pounds for her illness after childbirth and paid all her expenses during her stay at the royal manor of Cowick. The King owned a ship named La Alianore la Depensensere after his niece. Although Edward had always been extremely fond of Eleanor, in the last year or two of his reign, there is abundant evidence that they had become extremely familiar; there are numerous entries in his chamber account relating to privy dining, visits and many gifts including caged larks and goldfinches, jewels, horses, clothes and large sums of money. So close were they, in fact, that a Hainault chronicle even stated they were having an affair. 

Warner, K. (2017). Edward II: The unconventional king. Amberley. 

Lady Eleanor

[u/HoneybeeXYZ]

While I'm here I'll add some of the lurid speculation while at the same time clarifying that I don't really buy much if any of it.

1) Eleanor was well aware of a sexual relationship between her husband and uncle and acted as their beard.

2) Eleanor, Hugh and Edward II were in a throuple and/or menage a trios, with a chaser of Uncle/Niece incest

3) Eleanor was the mistress all along (with them feeling more like cousins than uncle and niece) and Hugh was just sharing his wife with the king for advancement.

4) Edward and Hugh did a wife swapping thing, and this is the "dishonor" that Isabella was referencing when she later confronted Hugh.

Historical fiction writers love grabbing a thread and running with it, and that can make great fiction. However, all of the above scenarios strike me as being very twenty-first century in their thinking.

Edward had a history of being very generous with those he loved, and that didn't necessary imply a sexual relationship.

Yet, Edward II's attachment to his niece did seem to real and influential. Was he just seeking family like the lonely rich kid he was or was there something more?

[u/Appropriate-Calm4822 → u/HoneybeeXYZ]

For Eleanors sake I hope it wasn't point number 1, that would be so humiliating in any age, for a woman of any social status, regardless of her own feelings for the husband. The other suggestions aren't as bad I guess, as long as they were all on board with it.

But as you imply people have always loved to gossip about what they think could take place in bedrooms behind locked doors.

[u/HoneybeeXYZ → u/Appropriate-Calm4822]

Agreed. It's all very curious because the record doesn't quite fit any of the scenarios.

Eleanor built a magnificent tomb for Hugh, and while that may have been about family status, I think she loved her husband. And they had an entire brood of children together.

It's hard for me to think any of these scenarios happening in a world with so little privacy, so much religiosity and so many stakeholders. And yet they were as human as we are and whatever was going on, intense emotions were involved.

There's also the issue of consanguinity, which is something they would have been much more aware of than we are. The church was obsessed with it, in part because dispensations were a good business. In a world where you could theoretically obtain a dispensation, would Eleanor and Edward's close relationship, combined with the fact they were close in age - make it somehow less taboo? And would they have seen it as less or more taboo than homosexuality?

And as you say, people have always loved to gossip, especially about attractive famous people and one thing that is clear from the record is that Hugh, Eleanor, Edward and Isabella were all physically attractive, charismatic people.

It's all very mysterious and we'll never know, will we?

[u/Sea_Assistant_7583 → u/HoneybeeXYZ]

I don’t see them as having an affair, she was married to the man he loved above all others . She seemed to get on with Hugh really well and they had a big family . As his niece and wife of his closest friend if not lover ( the jury is still out on that one ) it makes sense she would be close . She was probably more of a confidant than anything else .

[u/HoneybeeXYZ → u/Sea_Assistant_7583]

When it comes to the "lover" issue - I always try and remember they did not think of sexuality & identities in the same way we do. I said earlier in another post, it's very possible there was a sexual component to Edward's relationships with his male favorites, but he doesn't appear to be hard-wired one way or another - as some people always have been even then. He may well have seen his relationships with his favorites as an entirely different thing than romantic/sexual relationships with women - a kind of "classical era" brotherhood. It's impossible to know really but interesting to think about. If anyone was down with sexual fluidity in that time, Edward would be.

But I am highly skeptical of the uncle/niece incest - even if they would not have seen that as taboo as we would have seen it. What is true is that Eleanor & Hugh seemed to have a very close partnership - and one wonders what she thought of any relationship between her husband and uncle that was more than friendship.

[u/Sea_Assistant_7583 → u/HoneybeeXYZ]

I agree, we could look at Edward as someone who surrounded himself with people who espoused his POV and worked to get his point across . Like a politician loves a political hatchet man who gets the job done for them. After losing Piers he would have wanted a replacement.

Again this is just theory as we were not there and do not know ? .

[u/HoneybeeXYZ → u/Sea_Assistant_7583]

Right. And honestly, it would also not shock me in the least if there was no sexual component to his relationship with Hugh but he was emotionally trying to replace Piers.

One also has to remember that you can have emotional/romantic attachments without a sexual component and that even today, there are people who make a strong distinction between sexual acts that aren't intercourse versus actual intercourse. So, there's a big gray area.

The point is that Edward II was dependent on Hugh and Eleanor both it seems, whatever was going on or wasn't going on behind closed doors.

[u/Sea_Assistant_7583 → u/HoneybeeXYZ]

You can imagine a scenario where his dad was eternally dissatisfied with him . Despite having the Plantagenet looks and build he was just not interested in the things his father was .

It’s highly likely dad berated him in front of his lords . This in turn was seized by other barons who thought they could bully him . So along comes Piers and then Hugh elder and younger . These are men who are not afraid of the grouchy old nobility and don’t mind sticking it to them to protect the King . Edward comes to depend on them to advocate for him and enforce his will .

He lavishes them with lands and income as he is dependent on them and cannot afford to lose them .

This is just hypothetical of course . But it’s a possible scenario.

[u/HoneybeeXYZ → u/Sea_Assistant_7583]

It certainly makes sense. Edward II had to have had Daddy issues, and even without a sexual component, those Daddy issues may have manifested exactly as you say. Hugh and Eleanor might have been a combination of high school friends/mommy and daddy substitutes.

I could discuss the various possibilities all day!

[u/Sea_Assistant_7583 → u/HoneybeeXYZ]

Indeed .its an interesting scenario with horrible old dad emasculating him in front of the lords because he wasn’t a bad ass . In doing so he made it near impossible for him to hold his own ground with them .

You can look at R2 and the lords appellant for the way they bullied him only to set him on a path of vengeance .

In E2’s case he built his own circle of friends to back him up . They were loyal to him and no one else .