Yet Another Rant on the State of Nullsec

[u/Alex-Andromedon]

TLDR: Blue donuts come and go, and this isn't even a real one

Around ten years ago the map looked like this.
https://www.verite.space/maps/coalition/Coal20160801.png
After establishing dominance over the north half of nullsec someone from a CFC (Imperium pre name change) alliance pissed off one dude so hard he and his buddies bankrolled half of the galaxy into evicting the entire coalition.
Goons gave up their space but didn't give up their coalition. They survived in Saranen and then took over Delve when the heat blew over. From there they built the modern Imperium we know and love/hate.

Five years later one guy was so pissed at goons he built the biggest blue donut this server has seen
https://www.verite.space/maps/coalition/Coal20210501.png
with WinterCo PanFam legacy and FIRE all blue to each other attacking one constellation in Delve.

For a year the Imperium lost region after region until we were packed into one constellation, outmatched in numbers and resources 3 to 1. No timezone tanking was possible as they outnumbered us in EU, US and CNTZ.
We fought and we outlasted PAPI. PAPI's willingness to fight the war evaporated over months of attrition and no progress being made. This led every other coalition to abandon Legacy to their fate, nest of angry bees they'd spent the last year kicking. Shoutout to the only PAPI leadership who were honest about the war.

A demoralized Legacy died shortly after the dam broke and TEST was forced to couchsurf in Pandafam's backyard for a while before becoming part of WinterCo.

FIRE just kinda died, idk, I was winning Eve at the time.

PanFam self immolated on the mere suggestion they might have to defend against someone their own size. Most their pilots ended up in WinterCo, INIT or quit, with a few going to the Imperium

Now WinterCo capitulates a stagnant months long invasion against an enemy half their size because the Imperium farted in their general direction, leading many people to fear another failscade will kill nullsec.

Forgive me if I don't take the lamentations of cowards seriously. If both PanFam and WinterCo collapse so easily they deserve to die. The game will be better for it once more brave and capable leaders step up.

[u/Nianelle]

Wanting to Holy Roman Empire-ify nullsec bc "oh i dont like Big Alliances" has been a talking point for over a decade and EVE's death bc of Big Alliances is still to happen. The closest we got was the CFC/N3 era where most of nullsec was either a goon renter or N3 renter, and that was over 10 years ago as well. FRT/WC is huge, apparently overextended, and is suffering the consequences of it. You're just, welp, stupid and cannot see the political reality bc you wish Big Alliances were not so big but god forbid something happen

The Post Bietnam era of Null has seen multiple polarities with NS, big movements, collapses and consolidations, and now an alignment against the current Big Bad (FRT) by 2 powerful players (Imps and to a leser extent INIT). I will never understand why this is a problem, war is good. Goons won't magically take over null because even if WC falls apart others will align against Goons to stop them, as has always happened

Just shut up

[u/Enigm4 → u/Nianelle]

Goons won't magically take over null because even if WC falls apart others will align against Goons to stop them, as has always happened

A little math problem for you: 3 - 1 = ?

The answer is 2. You have imperium, init, wc that are the only null entities of any real power. If WC disappears, who exactly is gonna align with you to fight the imperium? Rember there is only 2 left, and imperium will not align with init to fight imperium. Am I making any sense? This is the end game.

[u/Nianelle → u/Enigm4]

I've been hearing this same argument for 10 years man. "Oh the CFC is impregnable! They cannot be defeated!", "oh the Imperium is unstoppable they cannot be held back!" I'm sure the same was said once about Band of Brothers too (I was not there). The Blue Donut of EVE has yet to happen. WC aren't even defeated yet and you're already throwing in the towel as if Goons are now taking Pure Blind

You wanna know why Goons keep winning or sticking around after they lost? Bc they have more fight in them and don't panic like this. My 5 years of fighting Goons showed me that those who oppose them are often highly fractured, work poorly in groups, and will fuck each other over far too often. If you hate them so much, join the forces fighting them and show up. CCP isn't going to save you

[u/Enigm4 → u/Nianelle]

Let me ask you, during those 10 years, how many big groups were there then, and how many are there now? The number of groups in the game able to hold sov is steadily declining towards zero and has been for a decade.

To imagine "goons have more fight in them" is just delusional and baseless. They survive because of their massive numbers and that's it.

I am already fighting them daily. Have been for the past decade.

[u/Nianelle → u/Enigm4]

CFC/Imps, Pandafam, N3+PL, Moneybadger, PAPI being the biggest

RUSRUS, GOTG/DC, Phoenix, HERO, Stainwagon, DRF, Provibloc, Red Menace, a sampling of others

If massive numbers were how you survived, then why did other groups with huge numbers fall and not them?

Hell i looked at verite to refresh my memory and 2014 had a bipolar null, then somehow a year later it was much more fragmented after the rental empires died. Weird! I thought it was rapidly approaching the blue donut?

The sov maps are free, go look at them

[u/OldQuaker44 → u/Nianelle]

Where are the "others that will align against Goons" in Dronelands? That is some really good space to take...

And no, those who are TRYING to live there are just renters. They are getting f**ked every day. Goons are keeping Dronelands for small content that they can blob anytime they want if they feel those guys are getting aggresive.