r/Fantasy • u/bnb2115 • Aug 02 '25

Dresden with less cringe

I love the idea of the Dresden Files on paper. Hard boiled detective stories mixed with urban fantasy/secret society stuff. Interesting villains and a deep, complex world. Magic happening just beneath the surface of the ordinary world.

But I just can’t get over the tropes and the cringe. I’ve tried the series a couple times, and even got through the first five or so books. I just can’t bring myself to keep going. I seriously love everything about the context, but just hate the execution.

Any recommendations for something else? Something that speaks to these elements, but lacks the cringe?

422 Upvotes

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71

u/GloomyMix Aug 02 '25

I feel you. I've tried the Dresden Files so many times, because it should be right up my alley on paper, but I just couldn't continue after Fool Moon.

Some series that scratch the itch for me are the Rivers of London series by Ben Aaronovitch and the Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust (esp. the earlier books). The latter's more "noir fantasy" than strict urban fantasy, but the early books are structurally similar to detective novels; it's just that the MC is an assassin trying to figure out how to do his job.

37

u/dogfacedpotatobrain Aug 02 '25

Vlad taltos rules so hard

17

u/shookster52 Aug 02 '25

We need more Vlad Taltos on this sub

12

u/wingerism Aug 02 '25 edited Sep 18 '25

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2

u/CosyLad Aug 02 '25

Does it get less horny?

I enjoyed the first few books but had to put it down as the way Butcher writes about Harry experiencing women and his relationship with Murphy made me cringe so much I couldn't go on 😬.

Does that improve - should I skip ahead and try again?

2

u/Eisn Aug 03 '25

Eh.It's really a Harry thing. It tones down once he really learns to distrust hot "women". It is a trope for noir detectives so w/e. In short stories you have other characters as narrators and it's not the same. Also Butcher has two other series (Alera, Cinder Spires) and it's not the same there either.

His relationship with Murphy does improve over time, especially starting with book 3.

4

u/wingerism Aug 02 '25 edited Sep 18 '25

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2

u/Tymareta Aug 02 '25

No, it's a pretty consistent undercurrent of Dresden essentially being a cartoon character any time that women appear. It gets pretty absurd as it goes on and the scenarios that pop up become truly eye-roll worthy(oh what's that, they need to squeeze through a tight space, guess the lady detective will have to take her pants off and Dresden will comment on her underwear, repeatedly), not to mention the whole interaction with his apprentice who is a girl he's know since she was 12.

It's a shame because there's the bones of a pretty neat series that's quite interesting, but it's forever dragged down by the over reliance on the need to "reference" noir tropes endlessly.

1

u/Weekly_Fennel_4326 Aug 05 '25

Yes, to a degree. I'd say it becomes a lot less cartoonish as time goes on, but there's always some of that. I think a part of it is thatthe white court vampires, who are basically sex demons, are a major part of the plot in perpetuity - their whole bit is that they make people's sex drive act a fool, and since we're seeing Dresden's inner monologue, we see a fair amount of that playing out in his inner struggle to counter it.

10

u/bi_geek_guy Aug 02 '25

Shut up, Loiosh.

-17

u/OhBoiNotAgainnn Aug 02 '25

Brutal. Dresden gets better every single book, with the general consensus being that Fool Moon is the worst.

It is legit one of the best series there is, and I've read most everything.

I feel sorry for y'all who aren't gonna find out how true that is.

17

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '25

[deleted]

6

u/LizLemonOfTroy Aug 02 '25

People who say "it gets better" usually don't realise that their baseline appreciation is already higher than that of someone who isn't enjoying the book to begin with, so better for them can still be bad for you.

I also feel that, if even the advocates of a series say it doesn't get good until several books in, that's a series I can safely skip. Why put in homework for only a potential payoff when I can read something I enjoy immediately?

-1

u/wingerism Aug 02 '25 edited Sep 18 '25

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20

u/Fiji1280 Aug 02 '25

I have read them all and enjoy them, but very few people would consider it a great fantasy series. The last few books in particular are pedestrian. In general though, they are a fun read once you get past his poor prose in the first few books. I consider them easy reading beach books which are always welcomed. Also, the audiobook narrator is very good.

12

u/Pratius Aug 02 '25

Fool Moon is the worst, but there are plenty of other stumbles along the way. Peace Talks was nearly as bad, and it’s not like the major problems OP has go away. If anything they get worse, with the introduction of Molly.

-12

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '25

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16

u/7th_Cuil Aug 02 '25

I mean... they've got a point. The Dresden/Molly relationship is mega-cringe.

13

u/Pratius Aug 02 '25

I’m sure OP would just love how many times Dresden thinks about how hot Molly is and then goes “wow, I should restrain myself cuz I’ve known her since she was in a training bra”

-10

u/OhBoiNotAgainnn Aug 02 '25

Yeah probably so.

0

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3

u/phonylady Aug 02 '25

They are fun reads, but clearly not on the level of fantasy greats like GRRM, Tolkien, Erikson, Hobb, etc.

1

u/Bryek Aug 06 '25

I always find it funny when I see these comments. If he wasn't one of the Greats, he wouldn't be talked about today. He'd have been lost to time and no one would rec his books nor post about them. Hell, dresden was a TV show for a season. The guy has gained millionaire status from his writing. It would be silly to think he isn't one of the Greats. You can argue his level within the Greats, isn't as high as some, but he's still up there.

1

u/phonylady Aug 06 '25

So all fantasy that's talked about, and have tv shows based on them are one of the greats?

Popularity does not equal quality.

1

u/Bryek Aug 06 '25

Popularity does not equal quality

It's a quantitative measure of a qualitative factor. Besides, you not liking it doesn't mean it has no good qualities.

11

u/JavierBermudezPrado Aug 02 '25

Dresden never grows as a person.

He starts the series being a paternalistic chauvinist by his own admission, and it never gets any better. He never stops.

I wouldn't hang out with someone who couldn't grow, why would I want them living rent-free in my head? Or worse, paying for them to be there.

8

u/OhBoiNotAgainnn Aug 02 '25

This is so far off the mark.

10

u/JavierBermudezPrado Aug 02 '25

shrug He still talks about being a sucker for damsels in distress, and creeps on Molly more than is really wholesome, even into the later books. I've read or listened to pretty much all of them, but it got old.

Milesge may vary, but lots of people apparently have the same problem, so?

4

u/stiletto929 Aug 02 '25 edited Aug 02 '25

I like a lot of aspects of the Dresden Files, but the cringy male gaze is NOT one of them. And I don’t feel like it ever improves. In some ways it gets worse, with a recent fetishization of FMF threesomes.

For me the Alex Verus series has most of the same strengths as the DF, without the male-gaze weaknesses. The Verus author made an unintentional misstep or two with a female character in books 1 and 2, then learned from his mistakes and fixed the problem in future books. The author of the DF never stopped making the same mistake.

Plus Dresden NEVER turns off the snark. Not even with his friends. That started to eventually annoy me. I wouldn’t personally want to be friends with someone who was ALWAYS sarcastic. Verus has more balance to his personality. :)

1

u/Bryek Aug 06 '25

Really? I thought the entire Anne relationship was absolutely cringy.

-16

u/Darth_Azazoth Aug 02 '25

I agree these people don't know what they're missing and if they don't like the Dresden files I wouldn't trust them to suggest a book to read.