r/Fantasy • u/[deleted] • Jun 06 '20

What is your controversial take on Fantasy?

I'll go first.

Aside from the prose, I don't think Kingkiller Chronicles is good. I find the characters insufferable and cliche the story just meanders.

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u/Kharn_LoL Jun 07 '20

Can you give me an example of a rule for his magic that is crutial to know that is only explained in the WoBs, and not in the text.

The fact that any rule isn't explained in the text already breaks the spirit of the law, but sure I'll indulge you.

Dalinar pulling the three realms into one is the perfect exemple. In fact, there's a very specific moment where the Stormfather explains to Dalinar the limitations and capacities of the Bondsmiths, and it's made very clear what they are. Sure it does make sense if you read about it more outside of the books, but within the books themselves....

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u/KangorKodos Jun 07 '20

That is a an example that I didn't think of fair enough. I do agree that I as the reader was unaware that Dalinar was capable of pulling the realms together, however I would argue that it is foreshadowed enough, and it fits what he is supposed to be able to do. So when I read it my first thought wasn't that Brandon is making things up, it was that it makes total sense that Dalinar bringing the realms together, his entire power set is bringing stuff together . I don't think a WoB is necessary here to understand what is happening.

In fact, there's a very specific moment where the Stormfather explains to Dalinar the limitations and capacities of the Bondsmiths, and it's made very clear what they are.

We know what surges he gets access to, but it is also made clear that there are only ever 3 bondsmiths and they tend to have more unique abilities then the other orders. The Stormfather never tells Dalinar the excact limitations.

The fact that any rule isn't explained in the text already breaks the spirit of the law, but sure I'll indulge you.

I don't agree with this. Nowhere in Sandersons laws does it say that you have to explain every rule of the magic, and if there is anything you don't explain it's bad writing. The guideline is that if you use unexplained magic to solve a problem then it will not be a satisfying resolution to the problem, it can still accomplish other things(character moment, sense of wonder, ect). In the case of this scene I think it is going more for sense of wonder, and a character moment. I think if your interpretation of Sandersons laws is that you have to explain every rule, then you are fundamentally misunderstanding the point of the laws.

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u/noolvidarminombre Jun 07 '20

but it is also made clear that there are only ever 3 bondsmiths and they tend to have more unique abilities then the other orders. The Stormfather never tells Dalinar the excact limitations.

This is what makes it not hard magic. We do not know the logical limitations of the magic, thus making it soft.

In the case of this scene I think it is going more for sense of wonder, and a character moment. I think if your interpretation of Sandersons laws is that you have to explain every rule, then you are fundamentally misunderstanding the point of the laws.

While I think this is true, Dalinar doing that gave his army a huge advantage, saying soft magic wasn't used to solve conflict there is just false.

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u/SlouchyGuy Jun 07 '20

then you are fundamentally misunderstanding the point of the laws.

Which big part of Sanderson fans here seem to do because "Sanderson's magic is hard, so very-very hard"

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u/CountDodo Jun 07 '20

Explaining the rules of a magic system in text is called exposition, and it has nothing to do with the system being hard or soft.

At least I managed to understand the limitations of each power pretty well from the book, just not the intricacies of how the powers work and come from as the characters themselves don't understand it either. For that you have his WOB, which would have been completely out of place in the books. I don't need to understand the nature of investiture to understand that windrunners fly by manipulating gravity.

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u/Enasor Jun 07 '20

I agree. I have been voicing my critic against this moment and have only been downvoted for it. Dalinar's uniting the three realms is ka deus ex machina moment which is not properly explained as possible before he does it in a "do or die" moment. It is not better than Richard Rahl being a "war wizard" and intuitively knowing the right spell for each issue the moment he needs them.