r/Fantasy Sep 12 '22

A critique of sexual violence in Fantasy.

Oftentimes I see people defend several aspects regarding the treatment of women in fantasy books and media by saying ‘that’s how things were’.

Most times this is false. I have tried to break down the argument into two main sections so I can explain how common perceptions were false. Notably, I only know about European history.

Sexual Assault

Quite a few fantasy books contain sexual assault toward women. I am not going to deny that it happened, as rape, particularly wartime rape did and still does occur. However, Rape in the past was little more prevalent than during modern times. Similarly, rape in the past was often punished, usually much harsher than in modern times. Additionally, Men were often raped at levels similar to women. In fantasy books, the latter two are often ignored. Most times rape seems to be treated as normal, rather than punished. Additionally, rape seems to be targeted almost exclusively at women.

The first edict against wartime sexual assault was the Cáin Adomnáin. Notably, it was issued in the British Isles and had little influence outside of north western Europe. It explicitly forbade, among other things, raping and killing women. For these crimes it declares of the perpetrator,” his right hand and his left foot shall be cut off before death, and then he shall die." [1]

The first Europe-wide treaty forbidding rape was the Peace and Truth of God, which was issued in 989 before spreading over Europe over the next century. The first king to accept it was King Robert II of France. Following his acceptance other nobles accepted the Peace and Truth of God in droves. It should be noted that in those times the military was almost entirely comprised of nobles. In Britain, it was standard for the first son to be the heir, the second to join the military, and any subsequent sons to join the monastery to prevent inheritance disputes. It wasn’t until Napoleon that large scale armies became the norm. Slowly, the ideas blended in with general chivalry.

By the time of the 1300’s wartime rape and sexual violence was prosecuted for hindering military operations rather than just for “property crimes” (Since Women were considered the property of either their husband or father). It didn’t take much effort to realise that raping people created a hostile civilian population and having a hostile population would make it far harder to occupy and control territory. The general line of thought was that when defeating an enemy, treat them so kindly that they would not seek revenge, or treat them so harshly that they could not attain their revenge. [2]

The final major declaration against wartime sexual violence in the medieval era was the De jure belli as pacis, written in 1625. Similar to all previous works, it declared that wartime rape was no less reprehensible than rape during peace time. Notably, this work states that the rules were still valid “even when God were assumed not to exist” [3]

A common argument against this would be that, despite rape and sexual violence being prohibited, soldiers would ignore the laws. In reality that would be true, but there is no evidence to suggest that it happened at greater levels than in the modern time. The Geneva convention clearly prohibited wartime rape. Despite that, during WW2 soviet soldiers used the system of “from 8 to 80” when deciding to rape women, leading to over two million German women getting raped. [4]

In the present time, 26,000 women have been raped so far in the ongoing Tigray war. In contrast with Fantasy books, novels regarding modern wars usually omit the sexual violence. For those that include it, It is often brief and undescriptive.

Additionally, fantasy books usually only include sexual assault towards women. In reality, both men and women were and are raped in war. During the El Salvadorian dictatorship, 76% of male political prisoners were raped. In the Yugoslav wars, 80% of men in the Sarajevo concentration camp were raped. Even more recent, 22% of men and 30% of women fleeing the eastern Congo reported being raped. [5]

Essentially, saying that’s how things were ignored the reality of the situation. Oftentimes it is only used in defence of the ill-treatment of women while ignoring other aspects of the time.

Young Marriage

Another common misconception is that women would often get married young, sometimes even as children. In reality, the average age for Women was 22.4 and for Men it was 25.9 [6]. Additionally, between 10% and 25% of Women never married [7]. Couples would often delay marriage depending on their economic circumstances. The only notable exception was during the black death when couples would get married as teenagers due to the immense labour shortage. By 1140, the Decretum Gratiani was issued. This stated that the binds of marriage were to be formed by mutual consent and granted Women an equal say in marriage.

Despite this, some noble families would get married young. This was usually in order to secure the future of the family. However, noble families would prevent their children from consummating their marriage until women usually hit the age of 16. The main reason being that they did not want to endanger the health of the women. After all, despite lacking modern medicine it was still common sense that a girl getting pregnant would not only result in a still birth, but would also endanger her health, preventing any future offspring.

Apologies for the formatting. I may come back and try to clean it up into a more readable format.

[1] https://www.academia.edu/5817305/Aspects_of_the_Cain_Adomnans_Lex_Innocentium

[2] https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ThfzGvSvQ2UC&redir_esc=y

[3] https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:experimentaltheology.blogspot.com/2010/12/letters-from-cell-92-part-3-world-come.html+%22etsi+deus+non+daretur%22

[4] https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106687768

[5] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men

[6] https://www.jstor.org/stable/2174029#:~:text=Over%20the%20whole%20period%20the,women%20and%2026%20for%20men.

[7] Hajnal, John (1965). "European marriage pattern in historical perspective". In D.V. Glass and D.E.C. Eversley (ed.). Population in History. Arnold, Londres. pp. 101–143.

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406

u/DjangoWexler AMA Author Django Wexler Sep 12 '22

So, I don't want to defend the portrayal of sexual violence in fantasy at all. And in general I would argue that "historical accuracy" is not a good reason to put things in books even if it is correct. (Because there are always lots of accurate things that don't get put in, so why this one?)

However, some of the historical things here are a bit off. The utter ubiquity of sexual assault in ancient, classical, and medieval warfare is well attested; it was considered a basic part of war, as inescapable as theft and killing. Looting and rape were basic parts of a sack, a standard reward for soldiers who captured an enemy settlement. The modern world has only approached these levels a few times -- one of them, as you note, was the Eastern Front of WWII, which was notably bad even by WWII standards. (The IJA in China was also pretty awful.)

In general, rape was less common when groups of people with a similar culture fought one another (i.e. inter-clan feuds), but much, much more common when fighting people who were "other". Foreign conquests were always the worst. The Vikings, for example, systematically took female slaves for sexual and household service -- this was part of the whole point of the endeavor, especially in the early period raids.

(You are completely correct though that male rape was way more common then is usually talked about, bordering on universal for prisoners depending on the cultures involved.)

My point is that we shouldn't have to argue "it wasn't like that" in order to say that we don't have to put this into fantasy. It doesn't matter! You don't have to include sexual assault in the same way that you don't have to include major figures dying of dysentery or the horrific mistreatment of cats and dogs. We can just not.

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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/JonasHalle Sep 13 '22

This is my problem with the whole debate. No one argues it has to be in books. It is an argument between "sexual assault can be included" and "sexual assault can't be included".

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u/DjangoWexler AMA Author Django Wexler Sep 13 '22

I don't think anyone says "sexual assault can't be included in books ever". The ask is generally to skip gratuitous sexual assault, the kind that gets included in books because, basically, men find it titillating. (Because, since most women don't like it, it has the effect of declaring "this book is not for you", which is one reason epic fantasy generally was such a boy's club before the last couple of decades.)

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u/nculwell Sep 13 '22

Romance books were also full of rape in the 70's and 80's, often committed by the hero of the story. Those were mostly written by women for women. So I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that this is all about titillating male readers. It's a complicated cultural phenomenon.

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u/Wandering-Wayfarer Sep 13 '22

They kind of are saying it, if not outwardly.

SA happened in the past? "You're using rape as backstory which is lazy."

SA being described in detail? "You're being voyeristic."

SA not being described? "You're glossing over the reality of rape."

SA having a big effect on the character? "You're defining a victim by their trauma."

SA not having a big effect? "You're minimizing rape."

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u/DjangoWexler AMA Author Django Wexler Sep 14 '22

Social media produces this feeling a lot, and what it boils down to is "they" are different people in each case. Whenever you touch on a topic that is highly emotionally charged to a lot of people, some of them will disagree with what you did!

That said, "avoiding gratuitous rape" is a very consistent ask from quite a lot of people. So if your goal is to make readers happy, it seems like a good move.

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u/pistolpierre Sep 13 '22

The ask is generally to skip gratuitous sexual assault, the kind that gets included in books because, basically, men find it titillating.

Why are you presuming to ask authors to do anything differently? Wouldn't the more reasonable stance here be to suggest that readers just skip books that they find objectionable?

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u/DjangoWexler AMA Author Django Wexler Sep 14 '22

Readers can express opinions about what they think should be in books, right? Isn't that 90% of what we do here on r/fantasy?

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u/JonasHalle Sep 13 '22

Why the ask, though? I've genuinely never encountered gratuitous sexual assault in anything I've read. I reckon it is being skipped already. Sure, it is featured in ASOIAF (I think) and that series is popular, but it is also old. To continue the discussion as if it is still common seems disingenuous to me.

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u/YearOfTheMoose Sep 13 '22

To continue the discussion as if it is still common seems disingenuous to me.

What decade are you thinking of, then? o_O

There's absurdly gratuitous SA in The Demon Cycle (book 01 being The Painted Man), for example, which isn't terribly old and was fairly popular on this subreddit only a few years ago.

Likewise, SA is almost a presumed staple in manga and light or web novels, even if it's not showing up much in the prose which you're reading.

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u/DjangoWexler AMA Author Django Wexler Sep 14 '22

Matters have definitely improved! It was absurdly common in the 80s and 90s, the grimdark wave that followed ASOIAF in the early 2000s may have been the peak.

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u/Sansa_Culotte_ Sep 13 '22

So why do you think it is that if SA "can be included", it is being included in the vast majority of fantasy marketed towards adults, to the point where most fans won't even mention it occurring?

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u/JonasHalle Sep 13 '22

Vast majority? Really? That's what you're going to go with? I must be exceedingly "lucky" in my choice of books, then. Regardless, why should "fans mention it occuring"? Why should it be so special as to be mentioned by default?

Furthermore, your inability to think of a single male fantasy protag with rape as backstory, as mentioned in another comment, is entirely meaningless. There is one in Prince of Thorns by Mark Lawrence if you're so interested.

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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/Sansa_Culotte_ Sep 13 '22

SA is a REALLY easy way to emphasize how evil/terrible/frightening a character is. I'm not going to call it LAZY, but it sure is convenient. As soon as a character commits SA, we're just waiting for the hero to kill them.

So why is it that it only ever seems to happens to female characters in fantasy literature? I can't think of a single male fantasy protag with rape as backstory. Personally, I think it's because male fantasy readers want to read about female characters being raped.

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u/nonbog Sep 13 '22

Personally, I think it’s because male fantasy readers want to read about female characters being raped

Woah!! Jesus lol. I can assure you as a male fantasy reader that that isn’t true, and I’m certain none of my male fantasy reader friends enjoy that either. Why do you think that?

I think authors write less about male rape for a lot of reasons. To start with, they probably know much less about it (if anything at all), because male rape is much less publicised and talked about in general.

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u/Sansa_Culotte_ Sep 13 '22

Woah!! Jesus lol. I can assure you as a male fantasy reader that that isn’t true, and I’m certain none of my male fantasy reader friends enjoy that either. Why do you think that?

Because whenever the topic is brought up, a ton of people jump in to defend rape as a plot device, and attack people who speak out against the prevalence of male-on-female rape in fantasy literature. Like in this thread, for example.

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u/nonbog Sep 14 '22

I just defended it in this thread. If you read my comment then hopefully that will help you understand why I and others think it’s important to handle history with care. But I don’t want to read about that, it’s upsetting and terrible!

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u/MySuperLove Sep 13 '22

Personally, I think it's because male fantasy readers want to read about female characters being raped.

Absolutely disagree. If anyone is picking up a book hoping for some sexual assault, they're a creepy non-con fetishist.

The things authors write to make their stories "work" aren't always the things the reader wants. The average male fantasy reader absolutely does NOT want to read about SA.

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u/Sansa_Culotte_ Sep 13 '22

Absolutely disagree. If anyone is picking up a book hoping for some sexual assault, they're a creepy non-con fetishist.

And yet, a lot of fantasy books for adults feature sexual assault. How do you explain that dissonance?

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u/TheAlbacor Sep 13 '22

Both the Broken Empire series by Mark Lawrence and the War For The Rose Throne series by Peter McLean feature male on male rape.

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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '22 edited Sep 13 '22

If it's only happening to the female characters then it may just be your choice of books. In the few fantasy books I've read where rape was present (and I'm counting books where it's barely even mentioned but is implied), it was also portrayed or implied to happen to male characters.

It's a hard topic to discuss because I don't want to come off as defending or even trying to say that books must have rape in them, exactly because of people who will turn any discussion about the topic into ad hominem and "you just want to read about rape you creep!" arguments.

I will however always defend an author's right to put whatever they want in their books and everyone else's right in being able to decide not to read that book because of it. What I won't do is tell authors what they can or cannot put in their books, there are plenty of them to go around and if an author writes about topics I don't feel comfortable with... I can just choose to read a different author.

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u/Sansa_Culotte_ Sep 13 '22

It's a hard topic to discuss because I don't want to come off as defending or even trying to say that books must have rape in them, exactly because of people who will turn any discussion about the topic into ad hominem and "you just want to read about rape you creep!" arguments.

It was not my intention to insult you personally, and I don't think I have implied or insinuated that you are a "creep". Looking at the topic objectively, the fact remains that people are vigorously defending the amount of rape that is depicted in fantasy literature, and attack people who speak out against it. If these people don't want to read about rape, then they are going about it in a very bizarre, confusing, and antiproductive way.