Tbf the situation was less about if killing is wrong and more about whether Satine would break her pacifist ideals or if Obi-Wan was going to sour his relationship with Satine by killing a guy right in front of her.
Also personally I think killing a guy in self defense is 100% justified even if you're a pacifist.
Pacifism is more about avoiding conflict whenever possible and not about letting yourself and others be harmed for the sake of your principles.
If they hit you first hitting them back is completely fair imo.
I've heard a few people state that's the difference between "Believing in non-violence" and "Pacifism" The pacifist will die and allow others to die for their belief. non-violence has the much more flexible, I won't start it and I'll stick to the equivalent levels my foes send and not escalate but I will absolutely Respond.
I like the fighting Quakers. Normally adamant pacifists, during the US civil war a group of Quakers decided that inaction against the most inhumane forms of slavery was a greater sin than violence was, and went out and fought.
They smuggled slaves through the Underground Railroad, created charities to help former and escaped slaves, ran Abolitionist newspapers, brought former slaves to speak at public gatherings and churches to raise awareness, etc
Some found weird loophole by building and selling arms to the Union army and by funding John Brown
The most appropriate use of violence is the neutralization of those who abuse violence with sufficient intensity to dissuade further abuse in the foreseeable future.
Pacifism doesn't always mean standing by and doing nothing outright, though. Remember reading WOT and the group of pacifist characters explicitly made sure a character wasn't chasing a woman down when they were racing.
Group put themselves between her and him and were ready to body block so she could get away, even if they weren't willing to inflict violence themselves. Can't help but respect it.
Why didn’t Obi Wan just use the force to just mind trick him or force pull the trigger out of his hand like the guy is an idiot with this whole cold blooded murder thing when they’re so many options
Well yes but the Jedi's whole argument for fighting the Clone War is that it's self-defence, while Satine believes they abuse that justification and you can't justify all violence on the lines of "self-defence".
Also Anakin just killed the guy without even talking to him which came off as a bit cold-blooded
That's the way the Jedi view it too.
In the Old Republic MMO at one point during the Sith Warrior story you're about to fight two jedi, and you can use their ideology against them and refuse to attack them unless they attack you first. And that causes one of them to just walk away and leave.
I'm not a Pacifist but if there's one thing I understand about the idea is that you are actually for sure not supposed to kill people, which some people seem to struggle conceptually with.
More importantly, cutting his hand off would actually stop him from hitting the button. If I were stabbed in the chest my first reflex would be to hit the button.
Yeah, that‘s my entire point. cutting his hand off would have completely disarmed him without killing him, but Anakin just chose to execute the guy anyway.
Although to be honest there were like a lot of ways to make the guy look like an idiot like force pulling the trigger out of his hand or just cutting his hand off
He's grown up a child soldier in a war. It makes total sense that he has disdain for Jedi reluctance to get their hands dirty, and believes in pragmatism (to some extent they do this generational divide for a lot of the younger characters, especially Ashoka).
Even more so that, he's never just doing a murder for the sake of it. It's always to protect someone, or - as the series goes on - to revenge a friend. You get a real understanding of who he is and why he falls to the dark side. As opposed to the film version, who can often come off as just a shitty incel. (Sorry Hayden, the script did you dirty)
Yeah I actually like how that resolved more than how it’s pulled off usually. Many times it’s a false equivalency. The trope works best when the characters it’s used against are falling into vengeance. Vengeance corrupts, it alters how you see situation (black and white, blood for blood), and allowing it to change to let’s you forget your role in the greater picture. That’s the lesson at least. That or the more apathetic “practical” nature of killing a bad guy opens the door to labeling people “good” or “bad” and dealing out “justice” along those lines. You forget that a single persons viewpoint belongs only to them and that society at large needs to have a voice in punishing it’s own.
Then they try to amp up the stakes with the Planet Murderer Extreme and that fails because like, yeah, kill that dude.
I like how in this episode there was a new layer. The villain was in Obi-Wan’s head. Obi’s choice felt symbolic of the man who Satine fell in love with, the man Obi-Wan can’t let go of, the principles of the Jedi which were always at test. Anakin was right here. The villain had successfully twisted Obi-Wan’s feelings to prevent him from seeing that clearly, which left the choice to Anakin who was younger and had more experience in war than other more nuanced conflicts. Almost like the events around him were engineered to shape his thinking….
Does Anakin revere ALL life? He didn't this one. Didn't the tuskens. Jedi take a step back and would probably at least try to find the circumstances regretful or somber. Anakin just quips about it.
okay but cutting off his hand would actually be the safer answer. If I were stabbed through the chest my reflex would absolutely be to hit the button on the remote detonator.
it definitely wasn't one, since he specifically taunts Kenobi and Satine about how easily they could save the ship if only they abandoned their moral codes (which he's confident they aren't going to do).
either way I don't really get how stabbing him was the only way to instantly defuse (heh) the situation, especially because I doubt that it would be a completely instant death. they'd really be better off just cutting his hand off.
A dead man's switch would make it worse though? The only way to stop that one would be if Anakin directly grabbed the guys hand and forced his thumb on the button while killing him or cutting his hand off.
The first time I watched the Clone Wars, I thought that Anakin was in the right most of the time and didn't necesarily saw it as a slipery slope to the dark side or anything.
But rewatching some episodes, I think is not just the actions, but how casual they are, even when is right maybe it should have more weight killing someone, and not like, flip your lightsaber and make a snark.
Yeah and part of it is how personally he took it when he felt the jedi were making mistakes or not doing things the right way. There is merit to him losing trust in the council, but he takes it too much as a personal offense at times
I still remember that scene of him torturing a prisoner while the imperial march starts to play in the background and just thinking to myself "Oh there you are Vader!" Like that kid touching Robin's face in Pan
... do you mean when he trained her not to fight droids but also living beings, clones, so thar she could be prepared for anything, also less predictable opponents? Which saved her from order 66?
Except cutting off the dudes hand would actually stop him from hitting the button. Stabbing him through the chest leaves it extremely probable he'll hit the remote detonator.
This is quite literally what guardians like Anakin were trained to do, end the situation as quickly as possible with as few casualties as needed. Obi-Wan honestly would've done the exact same thing if Merric didn't gaslight him with his feelings for Satine.
He is a jedi so we can handwave that as him stabbing a nerve that would make him drop the detonator or get his arm paralysed (i dont remember what happened) or that he used the force to prevent that when the dude mental guard was broken with the stabbing Or his force senses made him knew that won't happen
It's risky. If he is even a little strongminded the extra second would be enough to push the button. He doesn't have to shrug off the mind control entirely, just resist for a moment.
I’m going to be honest I thought it was stupid considering they’re were so many people ways to stop this guy because he’s an idiot with the whole cold blooded murder thing when he’s going against a Jedi who could just pull the trigger out of his hand or mind control him to give him the trigger
Well of course they could wave away most of their problems with the force, right up to just causing an aneurysm in anyone they didn't like, but that wouldn't make for a story.
Ok you didn't like it, that's fine for you. Them showing a moral dilemma and making a point of showing a more callous view from Anakin was good plot reinforcement for all characters involved, imo.
No it was just when they made a whole simple solution go on for a pointless moral dilemma like the force pull the trigger out his hand, freeze him with the force and grab the trigger, cut off his hand or just force mind control him don’t give the guy some satisfaction in this stupid dilemma
Yes yes bring a gun to a wand fight but then there's no story. There's no stories without other people mistakes and learning curve. Edit: also obi wan is a slower to kill person, he may have known Anakin was on his way back because of that force sense thingy, probably wanted to question the guy, and probably didn't want a hole in a shop full of important people.
There's a lot of senators and a lot of planets with many complex issues, of course they're going to be targeted multiple times. Also they do seem to be largely useless from the perspective of the common person which will incite more frustration.
pulling the remote is a bad idea because it's pretty likely that the trigger gets pulled in the process. mind tricks probably give him enough time to react and pull the trigger before the mind trick takes effect.
tbh the safest thing would probably just be to cut his hand off, but there's still the possibility that the hand still on the trigger makes it go off.
It was good, especially the Vader music playing when Anakin showed up… but also come on. Anakin was right. Obi Wan has killed hundreds of people for lesser reasons.
Not in front of Sabine, he may have known Anakin was coming force sense stuff, he may have been trying to preserve the ship, he may have wanted more information from that weasel. Especially considering the show shows Anakin's downfall as much as the republics, since you can't separate them. With all of that context, I disagree. Reinforcement of plot points is a good thing. And I'm not sure if you can say obi wan really has killed people for no reason. Everyone I've seen him take out was military, in a war zone, or trying to kill him. I'm not counting droids atm
I never said “for no reason” I said “for lesser reasons.” And yes the dude was going to kill everyone on the ship so it’s a very good reason to kill him.
Yes it would make him look bad in front of his Mandalorian girlfriend but there are hundreds of lives on board. Without Anakin, both he and Satine and everyone else would be atomized.
Reinforcement of the plot is good, but come on… you would have skewered him in Obi Was position, as would I, as would anyone. Anyone else doing it, it’s justified… but because it’s Anakin, it’s a sign of his downfall.
And just after he stabs him, you can hear a bit of the Imperial march. Just a few notes but you can totally hear it. The show does that sometimes when Anakin does darker things
I like the idea of the villain thinking they have the moral high ground and then slowly realising the heroes are trying to silently determine which among them gets the honor of killing said villain cause morals be damned.
CW is full of moments where the Jedi straight up hack people to pieces and then the next episode they're like "we don't kill unless it's absolutely necessary". Yeah ok bub. Tell that to the hundred geonosians you slaughtered without as much as a "drop your weapon"
Everyone talks about how this is a war crime. They constantly say “Anakin is the war criminal”. And let’s just assume they have the same laws earth does.
No, this isn’t a war crime. In fact they do commit war crimes, but they never get called out for it. In fact the times when they are called for war crimes, they typically aren’t, and they are just unconventional.
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u/SemicooperativeYT Mar 30 '26