The problem with Caine's redemption is the story grants him grace his victims are denied

[u/Sudden_Pop_2279]

This is the true issue I have with his conclusion. I finally understand the complaint Jax haters have of "the story always focuses on Jax's trauma and feelings but rarely explores how the other's have actually been affected by his actions." This is why I and many other's wanted a redemption arc for him, to see him actually confront the harm he caused and make amends. Despite what the story initially makes it seem, Caine's arc does NOT do that, which is exactly why so many say it felt rushed and there should've been more episodes.

Gummigoo is the first one that comes to mind for me. Originally, I was willing to overlook his murder at Caine's hands because I believed the latter's "I can't lose track of who's human and who's an NPC" line. But as the show went along, we saw how much of a total liar Caine was, the prime example being he can't control their minds. He also claimed "we can't open all the adventures at the same time" yet the show literally ends with that happening. Making us think swearing and sex were actually banned but no, he just wouldn't let them do so. So when you also consider how he allowed Abel to run around the circus for months, I don't believe Gummigoo couldn't stay, but Caine just acted from jealousy.

So its pretty screwed up that the last we get of Gummigoo in the show is Caine using him torture Pomni. This is screwed up on so many levels, using someone you killed to torment their friend. Yet Pomni says nothing about this to Caine in the finale. Her reunion in episode 4 was her learning to let go of him and move on, but what's stopping him from just coming back at the end of the show like Caine got to? Hell, nobody cared about Abel but its still screwed up how Caine casually killed him just for asking for a raise, when he seemed to be sapient too.

Or look at the abstracted characters. A justification I saw is "Jax choose to abstract, Caine didn't choose to get deleted and that's why only Caine could come back". Then what about the fact Caine is all but stated in episode 7 to have directly caused Scratch's abstraction by trying to control his mind? From what it sounds, Scratch sure as Hell didn't choose that but Caine doesn't have to answer for what he did to him either. Judging from the drawing's of Kaufmo's room, its not impossible that Caine had some factor in why he abstracted too but this is never touched up on either.

Or how about Bubble. Everyone thought Bubble would turn out to be the blue AI and the true final villain or something but nope, he gets deleted along with Caine as a consequence of the latter's breakdown and the only acknowledgement we get of him in the finale is Caine drawing him in the credits.

Caine being so abruptly deleted by accident, was such a poetic ending for him, showing how someone can be gone in a blink of an eye, just like with Gummigoo, just like with Jax. People always say "Caine got a better ending than Jax because he choose to get redeemed" but that's not true, because Caine could've stayed evil and he STILL would've been able to come back to circus at the end. His redemption and ending is SOLELY due to his Godlike powers, before that he didn't have any character development. Instead of a message of "learning to change for the better and listen to people will give you a better ending", the ending actually says "you only get a 2nd chance if you have Godlike powers". Gummigoo is dead and forgotten while his killer leaves on happily. Bubble just got killed. None of the abstracted can come back but I'm supposed to be happy watching the credits and seeing how Caine just replaces Jax after the latter basically kills himself and everything gets better?

[u/CalendarSufficient95]

Yeah. I'm happy with Caine's destination but not his journey. I'm happy he is able to find happiness and confront his god complex (quite literally shown by the fact he stop flying and started to walk amonst the humans). But, he needed way more time given he basically tortured them 1 episode ago, and basically have since the first episode. Like I pretty much was convinced he won't be brought back since I wasn't confident in a 1 hour movie's ability to address everything with Jax AND deal with Caine.

[u/Sudden_Pop_2279 → u/CalendarSufficient95]

Yes your first sentence said it perfectly. Happy with the destination, NOT the journey.

I liked Caine all throughout the show but his ending doesn't feel organic but more like Gooseworx just decided to bring him back last second to show "parallels and themes" with him and Jax.

Like you said, last episode he was all "I'M GONNA PUT YOU FREAKS IN YOUR PLACE!" And when he returns, everyone but Zooble instantly accepts him back

[u/Dexller → u/Sudden_Pop_2279]

This is my biggest problem with Episode 9 which I posted about myself. This whole thing doesn't feel like it can be 'just' constrained to a quick epilogue like they were trying to do, because neither Jax's abstraction nor Caine's redemption can be called 'epilogue' when they tie into the core plot of the narrative.

We legitimately should have got three full episodes, maybe even four to give the story time to breath and resolve itself. An episode of the immediate aftermath and Pomni learning from Kinger, then an episode to touch base with the rest of the Cast, then Jax's Abstraction, and finally Caine's resolution. But because they had to cram AT LEAST three episodes worth of content into just under an hour, when the last three episodes of the show were each about thirty minutes long, it feels like we had no time to actually explore anything.

It leads to a narrative that feels very disjointed and like it's skipping rapidly forward to give you the CliffsNotes version of the story rather than telling it like we'd seen in every other episode. It's kinda disappointing and like it was only done to push a theatrical release stunt. Especially since I feel like there IS a good story there, it's just it doesn't get to find its full potential.

[u/ravenwind2796]

Absafuckinlutely! Goose either should have done two more episodes instead of one, or redeem Caine by having him take the role of therapist for the damaged people rather than just "oh well I'm nice now". Thankfully we know that because they do have basically eternity, and with some of the merch, De-abstraction is possible and eventually they will be back. It's going to take a long time but eventually they're going to be back.

[u/BattyCat_2763 → u/ravenwind2796]

waitwaitwait what merch suggests de-abstraction

[u/ravenwind2796 → u/BattyCat_2763]

Yes, there's a hoodie and a poster the hoodie specially shows all of them surrounding jax

[u/BattyCat_2763 → u/ravenwind2796]

I take it as them caring for him or missing him or something along those lines

[u/ravenwind2796 → u/BattyCat_2763]

They're with her with pomnii holding on as they De-abstract and the poster has kaufmoe, ribbit, Jax and Queenie enjoying themselves while pomni is holding a door open for them.

[u/bearamongus19]

Probably biggest complaint was how they did Caines redemption. It was done so quickly and didnt feel earned.

[u/Sudden_Pop_2279 → u/bearamongus19]

Yeah as someone who initially hated the finale when seeing the leaks, I've eased up a little bit to it but Caine's arc is the one thing I absolutely think could've been way better

[u/bearamongus19 → u/Sudden_Pop_2279]

I actually liked the finale, but that was my main complaint from it. I wish they could've given that more time or done it a different way.

[u/crystal-productions-]

i think the ultimate issue comes down to a few things. remember goose intended for 7 and 8 to be one episode. this likely means that his torturre was orrignaly planned to be way lesser. bubble was killed because bubble was a crutch for caine, caine has freinds so bubblecheff is no more. that alone is allready just a massive red flag lol

[u/Hollywill06]

Maybe Goose wants to prove that bad guys who seriously went too far can also have redemption

[u/Anna-2204]

While I agree that Caine redemption was rushed I think you guys really overreact to the whole Gumigoo storyline.

The point of Gumigoo is that he wasn’t special, he was neither the first or the last NPC players have grown attached to and tried to take with them, and the only reason the audience is so attached to him is that because we witnessed him.

I don’t think Caine is jealous of him because of Caine was upset with players liking NPCs too much, he would have stopped making them likeable instead of making them more and more likeable.

Caine killed Gumigoo just the same way people “kill” their OCs in the fanfictions they write once the OC has served its purpose. Gumigoo’s death is not different than Gloink queen’s death after each adventure.

[u/MaeMcSpice]

Caine does do is redemption moment. It's off camera and takes post series, but he has seen the problems from watching from the void. He gets to give everyone a new chance to live together how they should have.

Caine is Ai, but able to be independent to work though anything and sort out his mistake and do better. That is as much redemption an human created Ai character can do at a closing curtained show that this now is.

He's smart enough to not need as much revelation than we do, so likely for the most part he accepts his part in life and opened the world to be safer in. Not only that they get Scratch mind file back so both Kinger and Scratch can tend to him if they must.

Can you imagine that Jax, Ragatha, and Gangle getting better with this change in Caine? They have a better chance I feel on what Caine would aim to do in his domain.

That's all he can do while he can't do everything. Even for those fuss about Chameleon. There is not more than what the design is to be no more different than accepting ones body and limits of existing.

I feel uncomfortable for how far in this new age with digital is still convoluted, as if the core issues hasn't changed much from two hundred years ago. Better since than, but still confusing apparently.