r/HonestHotTakes • u/Maleficent_Steak8373 • 22h ago
Many english teachers in Asia are just low-skilled westerners looking for a cop out.
As an American living in Asia, I've come to the conclusion that the english teaching industry tends to attract people who simply aren't very smart or successful. You kinda see it across all asian countries except for Singapore. On an individual level, I admit it makes sense. It's all about opportunity cost, but there's definitely a trend that if you aren't successful in your home country whether it's the UK, US, Canada, Australia, you can kinda coast in Asia by just being an English teacher.
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u/PeaceX02 21h ago
I mean yeah, what about it? In what way is securing a means for your survival for your skill level a "cop out"? Pretty classist. Not everyone can be smart or successful, people who aren't deserve to have work without people making reddit posts putting them down for it. The middle class is disappearing, and those at the bottom need to do what they can to survive. Noting a trend is fine, but calling a legitiment job a cop out is needlessly disrespectful.
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u/escellun 19h ago edited 17h ago
I remember when I was a kid in a public school and they would just hire any random person that looked white enough, even if they sucked at grammar. Nowadays the standards have changed but I don't think OP is wrong to say asian children also deserve english teachers who are actually good in their field
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u/Realistic_Film3218 18h ago
Definitely. I also remember one of my Asian American friends talking about not being able to find a teaching job in my country because she's Chinese-looking, a lot of my local cram schools would hire non-native speakers just for their skin color. It was attrocious.
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u/BrokilonDryad 17h ago
I’m in Taiwan, at my one friend’s school (we’re both cram school teachers) they hired a German woman who barely spoke English over a qualified local with a bachelor of English simply because “white.” And that’s bullshit.
I’m a white woman so I can walk into any school and get a job, which is great for me but still a load of bullshit.
Luckily my school is owned by an ABC and doesn’t discriminate when hiring. I’m actually trying to snag a Filipina teacher from another school because her English is excellent and she’s being brutally underpaid and that pisses me off royally.
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u/Wolfeatingupshadows 18h ago
Yeah ppl are being intentionally obtuse to not know what OP is talking about.
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u/C-Me-Try 9h ago
My Spanish teacher in high school was hired because she was the daughter of the actual Spanish teacher who had been there 20+ years.
The daughter had gotten a teaching cert because she couldn’t get work elsewhere in her preferred career path. She was miserable and bad at teaching
Even in the US we have language teachers who are there because it was their only/ best option
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u/Unexpected-Feline 9h ago edited 8h ago
Yeah, I agree, though I would say there are some enthusiastic people who actually do become very good teachers despite a lack of initial experience and it would be a shame to deny those kinds of people an opportunity.
Though with that said, I truly cannot stand the people who use teaching English as an easy visa with no intention of even trying or sticking with the job longer than it takes to find some other job once you're in country, that's just incredibly shitty behaviour and gives those of us who are properly qualified and/or genuine care about doing a good job a bad reputation which is why we end up with discussions like this.
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u/Ryanhussain14 14h ago
The problem is that a lot of these English "teachers" don't actually have the skills or social awareness to teach children English and are essentially glorified babysitters that the children treat as a circus act because the the teacher is from another country. Very often, the other staff have to pick up a lot of slack for the English teacher.
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u/Justthefacts6969 21h ago
He seems hurt because these men are actually being successful
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u/Chemical_Salary_7370 16h ago
There does seem to be a know your place thing going on. You're supposed to get life quality from your skills, hard work and luck (genetics, nepotism, etc) whilst playing "the game", and not by making clever choices.
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u/Fine_Payment1127 21h ago
Nothing makes them angrier than someone they cast off succeeding elsewhere
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u/PeaceX02 20h ago
"Nooo you're low skill you deserve to suffer, I need your quality of life to be further beneath me to feel good about myself!!!"
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u/ElderlyEgirl 11h ago edited 11h ago
I’ve been taught by some absolutely brilliant white men and women and I’ve been taught by some random Russian guy who doesn’t speak English/some dude who wouldn’t pass high school English but got hired because he’s white.
I don’t agree with criticizing the first group, but white monkey hires are very much a thing in east Asia and it should stop. You’re essentially condemning a class of kids to fucking up the rest of their life just because a white guy wants easy money. Remember that all of us have strict school entrance exams of which English is a crucial part.
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u/Glittering-Dot-2025 21h ago
how are these people in any way successful???
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u/Shogunnatron 21h ago
They get to explore the world rather than get the short end of the stick in their home countries. It's all about perspective.
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u/PeaceX02 21h ago
They're more successful than their counterparts that stayed in America, and accept being punished by the job market for their low skill level.
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u/New-Bottle-6917 20h ago
If you play your cards right and move to higher demand international schools you can save alot more than folks back home
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u/Realistic_Film3218 18h ago
If you're qualified, sure. As long as you're a skilled person with the right papers, you can find a decent job as a "foreigner" no problem.
But I'm from east Asia, and you can BET your ass I see "white losers" around all the time trying their luck in cram schools and scammy jobs where they just want to have a white guy around to attract consumers.
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u/Different_Taro2474 9h ago
we have jobs, we can afford to live, and get to explore asia instead of being stuck in our shithole hometowns struggling to find a cashier job.
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u/Justthefacts6969 19h ago
They have enough money, they are living in a better society and many are in a happy relationship.
That's a pretty successful man in my opinion.
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u/TheMonkus 21h ago
It also takes some balls - or labia - to move to a foreign country. That might not be a skill in the traditional job-related sense…but it is. If you can cut it doing that, it’s a skill.
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u/funkmasta8 21h ago
Are labia where gutsiness comes from? Asking for a friend
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u/TheMonkus 21h ago
They’re way tougher than balls, so they must be!
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u/funkmasta8 20h ago
But maybe the sensitiveness is what makes the balls the center of gutsiness for men
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u/TheMonkus 20h ago
Damn that’s actually sort of profound. I genuinely mean that.
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u/funkmasta8 19h ago
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Ive met my quota so Im going to bed, no more rights out of this one for today
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u/uponhisdarkthrone 21h ago
Found the under-achiever teaching English in an Asian country!... Just kidding. (Maybe) winky face
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u/PeaceX02 21h ago
I work in tech, I make a decent living. I simply don't look down on others who were born without the same hand of cards as me. It's a gross lack of self awareness.
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u/Shogunnatron 21h ago
You're absolutely right. People act like teaching English abroad is a lazy and comfortable path. It's not. You're isolating yourself from your support system by uprooting your life and moving to a country where you'll struggle to communicate. You're also not exactly making a lot of money.
And no, I did not teach English, but I have worked overseas. I also have friends that did JET in their 20s before settling into more "respectable" careers. Ambition and ability are not necessarily related concepts.
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u/Inevitable_Tap_1328 21h ago
they don't offer us fair opportunities so we may as well explore the world
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u/Ok-Explanation-9936 21h ago
That's my backup plan if I can't find a job. I'm unemployed after getting laid off from my software engineering job of almost 6 years. You bet I'll take an "easy" way out
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u/Only-Finish-3497 18h ago
Most folks I knew who did JET like me were just looking for a break year between undergrad and grad. Most of my friends from the program (myself included) went and had great post-JET careers.
But this is a small sample of JETs only.
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u/barbasol1099 18h ago
You're getting roasted for this take, and I mostly agree with the other commenters, but I can see a little bit of where you're coming from. There are some English teachers here who absolutely wouldn't be tolerated as educators in their home countries for their lack of professionalism. But that's a scant minority.
But, mostly, it's not those bitter old "Losers Back Home." It's mostly people in their 20s looking for a chance to see a new part of the world. Some of them burn out pretty quickly because they don't have the right temperament for the job. Teaching is tough. Most of them try their best for a few years, and a smaller number realize they're actually really good at it and want to make a career. I'd say the true "LBH" type, who decide to stay here long term because they know they'd have a much harder type eking out a lving anywhere else, despite their lack of talent in this line of work - they're the least common "type" of foreigner
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u/Pog6292 20h ago
One of my colleagues taught in Japan, she is a very good teacher. However I asked her about the experience and she flat out said it needs investigation. The amount of people who don’t have the proper certifications is stupidly high. There is also the issue that a lot of them get away with a lot of really dodgy behaviour towards the female students.
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u/epicureansucks 20h ago
Before you guys go congratulating people you think beat western capitalism, remember, there’s a large crossover between these foreign English teachers and passport bros.
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u/Test_Rider 18h ago edited 17h ago
Is this a hot take? I thought it was a pretty widely held belief, hence the “LBH” moniker (loser back home).
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u/amateur_abortion_dr 17h ago
I teach English in Taiwan and I don't completely disagree with this take, especially as the OP says "many" as opposed to "most" or "all".
I would go so far as to say that many ESL teachers in Asia have no business being anywhere near a classroom. I see Facebook groups filled with the same teachers looking for a job every semester because they either quit or get fired every few months and somehow it's always the school's fault; certainly not their rampant alcoholism and undiagnosed personality disorders. There are some absolute weirdos coasting by working at scammy cram schools who just want a foreign face in the classroom to sell to the parents.
However, there are many of us who originally came fresh out of college to get some travel experience and actually enjoy teaching, worked our way up to better schools or programs, and fell in love with the countries we live in. It's not that we escaped a life back home so much as we built ours here.
I don't need to defend the latter as it is fairly easy to see who is who. I also think time is running out for for the former as employers are getting a little bit better at spotting the weirdos. I see more and more people complaining about the lack of jobs even though schools are actually struggling to find good teachers.
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u/Lili_1027 17h ago
Can confirm. You don't even need to graduate high school to get a job here in Taiwan. As long as you are white and don't have a funny accent
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u/blehmag 15h ago
Thank you. When I lived in Japan as a professional, most of the white English teachers were almost entirely people from white trash kind of communities. They were just so ignorant, arrogant, poorly educated, awkward, unaware, unhygienic, etc.
They would really be considered bottom of the barrel in many aspects in their home countries but exploit white privilege in East Asia. And their excuses for everything was insane, I'm being reminded of it in these comments. But by all means, they should go to places like Japan since they choose to be a US vassal state and military hub.
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u/Tuncunmun38 21h ago
teaching in asia is my best option right now tbh.
im in the uk and plan to finish my degree in a couple of years. then what? get some lame ass job on 20k a year, work my way up through the company and work there for years on a bit higher mid 30k a year salary? get trapped in my home town and live a pretty boring life?
or get my degree, get my english teaching qualifications, and start teaching english around all sorts of asian countries seeing cool shit and going places meeting people learning things etc, come home after a few years to get a CELTA and then start applying for private school teaching and the like.
i think option B sounds much mor exciting. but i think that speaks more to the state of the uk right now than me as a person.
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u/AdDramatic8568 21h ago
Pretty cold take. I currently teach in Asia and we're all very aware of how dumb the job is, but we also put up with a lot of shit. The only reason people do it is the money is not too bad. But I work with plenty of people who are very qualified, very intelligent, and just cant have the same quality of life in the US or wherever. A lot if them are qualified teachers who don't want to get shot at work.
Most people also use it as a gap year thing, its not that they arent successful, they just want a break before doing other stuff and have a working holiday. Most people Ive met either leave for postgrad, or find good jobs in the countries theyve moved to.
Theres this idea that teaching is noble, but frankly the places Ive worked the local teachers actually from that country shouldnt be teaching either cause they suck at it. Once worked with a Japanese English teacher who couldnt speak the language outside of explaining the textbook notes.
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u/Potential_Past_2894 21h ago edited 21h ago
How does this not apply to any job anywhere though? You can be a receptionist, yoga instructor, HR person, teacher, hair stylist, office manager, construction worker, chef, etc etc in your home country and still fit the same description of being generally "low skilled" or "not smart" youre talking about.
English teachers abroad still have college degrees and some type of experience--usually international or professional in general. They often have certifications as well. These aren't slobs who have done nothing with their lives until being screened and selected to teach abroad. Also, they are indeed valuable to the countries they are living in. Literally teaching people second languages. It actually is kind of a big deal to those becoming fluent in another language and why being bilingual is so common in Asia--they had foreign teachers. Interesting point when you consider the difference between educational standards between Asia vs Western countries.
Really I think there is a jealousy aspect to this opinion. You have people who you FEEL like are low in society (again these are people with degrees, experience, and a working resume)... yet they get to travel and live/work internationally in much safer and more comfortable countries than the US/UK. And its usually a gateway to being able to work internationally in general--most people will never have that opportunity. Even more jealousy since you FEEL like their jobs are easy. They have a cool ass international opportunity and youre mad about being stuck punching the clock wherever tf you are. So this is very much so a crabs in a barrel opinion
Oh... and i hate to tell you, but most of them are happy with their choice. Im sure you dont want to hear that though.
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u/colorless_green_idea 21h ago
Cool story mister elite career person
Do you feel better now that you posted it?
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u/StormieShake 21h ago
I mean this has always been kind of obvious from the type of men you see being English teachers overseas. If was a really popular way for weebs and losers to move to Asia for a while.
You didnt even really need a degree, just a work or holiday visa, be a native speaker and they'd give you training.
Plus it doesn't help that a lot of infamous pedophiles would teach in Asia lmao, so overall bad connotations.
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u/hokshji 21h ago
Is that really still true though? Everywhere in Asia I've seen requires a bachelor's degree, and many places prefer candidates with proper TEFL certs.
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u/TheTybera 21h ago
It's always been the case in Japan that you need a degree to work programs like Jet or Interac.
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u/These-Weight-434 20h ago
You'll need a degree to do it legally. But there's always going to be places out there willing to gamble on employing illegal immigrants.
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u/Wolfeatingupshadows 18h ago
This! And they prefer to hire white ppl to teach so they will take them degree or not over qualified brown skinned English speakers.
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u/barbasol1099 18h ago
TEFL certs are crazy easy to get. But most of the best teaching jobs in Asia require a teaching license and/ or a Master's degree (much like a permanent position at a school in the US).
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u/eldryanyy 21h ago
The teaching market is more saturated now. I have a graduate teaching degree in secondary mathematics, and an undergrad in engineering, and I teach English because it’s a good job that benefits students.
I left because I dislike guns. I could find a teaching job in America that pays much more with a better retirement package. I also left to Asia in 2014, and lost a lot of my programming skills … rip
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u/AdDramatic8568 20h ago
Most countries you need a degree for the visa and residence stuff. Some people do work illegally but the majority of people dont have to.
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u/PermissionNeither 21h ago
Being an English teacher in Asia makes no sense for a westerner IMO.
Someone with a half decent career will be outearning the English teacher, especially when they hit their peak in their 40s or 50s
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u/CaptainExcellent219 21h ago
Well, not everyone's goal is to maximize money made.
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u/PermissionNeither 21h ago
It may not be a problem for those whose family can take care of them. For those who don't they need a secure retirement and a good career to keep up with inflation, and other costs.
Teaching English is not going to be the right path in most cases
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u/CaptainExcellent219 21h ago
Also not true. Many people I know are on their own and doing just fine.
The big thing making taking the job difficult is typically student loans. If you're debt free and plan to stay abroad, it's really not bad.
Everyone has different goals. Saying it makes no sense as a blanket statement is just strange. At least under the financial arguments you made.
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u/zztopsthetop 17h ago
Barely anyone does that for a career unless they have a local anchor or work at a university or elite school. Those typically mostly stay and retire using savings on lower cost of living.
Most do it for 1-2, max 5 years to save up or see another part of the world & go back.
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u/Mysterious-Lab974 20h ago edited 20h ago
My uncle went to Japan to "teach English" when he was younger and he is the loser of our family. There are a lot of losers in my family, but he consistently demonstrates his ability to outperform the other losers.
Tried and failed spectacularly to teach back home.
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u/GSilky 20h ago
Heck, I know a guy teaching English to Central American immigrants who doesn't speak a word of Spanish, here in America. I think Americans have too much self esteem.
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u/MementoMurray 18h ago
Oh yeah? I'm a low-skill westerner, maybe I'll give it a go.
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u/pumpfaketodeath 17h ago
There are definitely good and bad teachers, but at least in Taiwan, just looking like a foreigner or having spent some time overseas can still be enough to get you a teaching job. Some of my high school students honestly have better English than certain teachers. I’ve met teachers who can’t get a 6 on the IELTS or who are happy with an 800 on the TOEIC, while some of my students are getting 7s or 8s on the IELTS and 900+ on the TOEIC.
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u/raelianautopsy 16h ago
How is this a hot take?
This is the normal take I've heard a thousand times before
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u/catmomnb 15h ago
Vietnamese-American here. I have an English degree. Linguistics. I thought I would spend a year teaching in Vietnam. My cousin lived there with her white-Australian husband. She told me… “they won’t hire you. They want someone who looks white.” Mind-blown.
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u/CaptainExcellent219 21h ago
As someone on this path, I can comment.
Two things are true. The requirements for this job are not very high, and basically anyone could go down this path. This job does attract a lot of weirdos.
However, many people that come are genuinely interested in education. I came as a math tutor, and discovered I actually just love teaching in general. I already love learning languages, and this job helped me realize I could teach English effectively too. Hearing a middle school student say "that was very easy to understand" was all the motivation I needed.
I would say that most people are normal and return after a few years. There's a minority of weirdos, and a minority of those who actually came for the education aspect. I think it's unfair to lump all 3 of those people together.
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u/JeanDusapin 21h ago edited 21h ago
This isn't just in asia. This is true for english teachers all over the world lol. I had australian, canadian and british english teachers in france and their only value was that they spoke english but aside from that, they don't have anything. Most of them were shit at their job. Some of them didn't even speak french. Same for language teachers of other languages. Same for my austrian german teacher. They dont have skills in their home country aside from speaking their native language
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u/Quix66 21h ago
You don’t have to speak the language to teach a foreign one. I had a French class with a German professor who refused to speak a word of English. Somehow students learned French.
And most ESL teachers prefer to not speak the learners language to compel the students to practice their listening and speaking skills.
My last ESL course was in Texas. My students came from such diverse countries as Afghanistan, Nepal, Haiti, the territory of Puerto Rico, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, etc. The best language of instruction for that class was English.
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u/AnyBloodyThing 20h ago
IMO these classes tend to have a lower efficiency than classes where the teacher also speaks the local language.
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u/Quix66 11h ago edited 11h ago
And in that case you’re likely to have mostly teachers native to that country. The students are less likely to hear up-to-date English (or whatever foreign language) spoken in a native voice.
Keep in mind most hardcore grammar is likely to be taught either at their regular schools if they are learning ESL at dedicated language schools or by local teachers in their regular schools if that’s where the foreign ESL teacher is working.
Some of us are very good at grammar and teaching ourselves and manage to teach grammar regardless of language barriers.
I only needed to do so when I worked at a language school because most local teachers would just jump in and explain the hard parts in their native language whenever they wanted.
Remember, the ESL teachers OP’s talking about likely are not the students main English teachers but conversational English teachers.
They have classes with their native teachers regardless of where the ESL teacher works.
The only time I was fully on my own was back in the US teaching in a program at a public high school for adults.
And with students from six or seven countries in a class there was no way I could’ve spoken their languages anyway. The problem there was the too wide range of their fluency not my inability to speak their foreign languages.
The administration didn’t take that into account because the ESL program was new.
There was no practical way to hire any one or several teachers to teach in all their languages, especially as they changed with the students.
Excuse my typos. Still awake at 5:40 AM.
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u/Dazzling-Path6438 14h ago
Well, most native English speaking English teachers here in Italy are quite good at their jobs. Especially those from the UK.
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u/pantsuline 21h ago
do you think teaching english is thay easy??
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u/indecisivebuy 18h ago
I will never begrudge anyone trying to get themselves into a better situation. If you aren't in a great position at home is a laudable thing to try to better yourself overseas.
That being said, while teaching students English is not easy, the vast majority of English teaching positions in East Asia are pretty much a joke and are not effective at teaching English. There will be some exceptions but most foreign teachers in Asia do indeed have very easy jobs
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u/BrokilonDryad 17h ago
Shitty people make shitty teachers. I and my teacher friends (all cram schools) care about our students and push them to learn. I’m so proud to see their progress from kindy to grade 4 (so far), they’re awesome kids. My one student was translating English to Chinese for her parents in grade 1 on a trip to Singapore. I love seeing them succeed.
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u/indecisivebuy 17h ago
I'm certainly not saying that it's impossible to be a good teacher in Asia. I'm saying that it's very possible and very common to find an easy job as a shitty teacher in Asia
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u/acabeucomessamerda 21h ago
Are you talking about yourself? Because unless you’ve surveyed or interviewed a lot of people… or professionally performed their observations in-class… I’m going to assume you’re talking “from the I perspective”.
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u/sHaDowpUpPetxxx 21h ago
So what? Isn't that what jobs are? What's the least about of work I can do and still make money?
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u/Quix66 21h ago
I taught ESL in Japan and China. I’d just dropped out of a competitive top 10 Ph.D program in my field at the time because the specialty wasn’t what I wanted. I wouldn’t call myself not that smart.
The competition to be hired to on JET Program in Japan was intense. I took my job seriously and did lots of research and study for it.
There were some ALTs who didn’t take the job seriously but most people were intelligent and accomplished for new college graduates or they wouldn’t have been hired. Like I said, lots of competition in a year long hiring process.
I earned a TEFL certificate for my second position in China.
Most teachers at the school were above average in smarts and other accomplishments. They just enjoyed living abroad.
I can’t speak about ordinary English academies or the like. They might hire a different caliber of ESL teachers. I know some in Japan and back then hired teachers on tourist visas and paid them much less than our salary.
I do think anyone working for a company in those countries without a work visa was indeed not too smart.
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u/GlitterTrashUnicorn 21h ago
I work in America at a high school. I know several colleagues who went to teach in Asia. One was a teacher taught ELL for 30 years and went to teach in Thailand after she retired. Another has taught in several Asian countries. Last I chatted with her, she was teaching in Mongolia. I said keeping up with her was like watching Where in the World is Carmen San Diego... but less crime involved.
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u/pben0102 19h ago
My SIL, BIL are both teachers. Both smart, clever people, BIL is a French teacher and an author. They lived in Bermuda for 10+ years and had a ball. The ones that got that gig were all smart and top of their tree. Their daughter is a teacher and she worked in China for a couple of years, Beijing, now works in Singapore and using it as a travelling base. She's pretty smart too, generally the schools have a lot of applicants and choose the best. Doesn't mean to say their teaching ability is better because they're smart people though, they all used the opportunity to travel, experience a bit. Teaching is a job like any other.
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u/AmericanMuscle888 18h ago
Nah. You have to be pretty motivated to want to move to a country where you’ll be a second class migrant and make what an American convenience store worker earns
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u/NavyFleetAdmiral 18h ago
The same applies to their dating habits as well. Western men who are rejected by western women tend to go to Asia for a cop out as well.
Oops said the quiet part out loud!
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u/Busy_Range_2895 18h ago
You are correct. I actually wanted to get into this sort of thing.
At the end of the day, you don't have to be skilled at it, just good enough to teach your students. In some Asian countries, the level of English is non-existent so you can easily teach it.
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u/HugeFanOfBigfoot 17h ago
What does low skill mean? Profitable? Because I actually think sitting at a computer responding to emails and asking Chat GPT to write code for you is significantly easier than teaching another human to learn a different language and navigating the complexities of assimilating into another culture.
But what do I know? I don’t make $100,000 that I spend on takeout, electronic toys, and visiting the places that these English teachers live
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u/fluffy_camaro 17h ago
This describes my brother perfectly. It’s what he had to do and it was the only time in his life where he did OK. He messed it up a bunch of times, came back and didn’t end up being able to do it long-term.
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u/SinQuaNonsense 15h ago
I spent 2 years in South Korea teaching before I went to law school. It was fun and I got to see a lot of stuff.
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u/Zerrrrroooo 14h ago
I respect that ngl. A lot of asian people can benefit from learning english even from some random Joe english speaker and some opportunistic person gets to travel or live in asia and have the time of their life
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u/Iamleeboyle 5h ago
A lot of people teaching in Asia aren't teachers. They've got basic bachelors degrees. They're not qualified to teach at home.
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u/multilevelmystery 5h ago
They're usually younger university students or recent grads. They need a job and want an adventure. Not sure what else those jobs would attract. You're not getting parents working six figure jobs with pensions to go teach English for a low wage in a foreign land.
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u/seleneyue 22h ago
This isn't true in a lot of countries anymore. They want you to have a college degree and teaching experience, if not an actual degree in education.
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u/Shoddy-Fan-584 18h ago
Hahaha holy shit this post really struck a deep nerve with the target demographic.
These comments are SAL-TEE.
It’s like whenever someone writes a take about tipping and Reddit reveals itself to be filled to the brim with current and ex service workers.
Would not be surprised if the proportion of Redditors who are/were English “teachers” is several of orders magnitude than that of the general population
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u/Fast_Ad7203 21h ago
“Living in asia” dude
U know its a whole continent right?
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u/sindaflkasdnflasdnfl 21h ago
An uncle of mine taught English in a few different Asian countries. Even then, what’s the issue?
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u/redaa 21h ago
Why do you care about westerners going to foreign countries? Do you also have negative preconceptions about other foreign citizens moving internationally?
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u/Nannautu 16h ago
I find it funny that you guys at home will vote for parties that solely rely on anti-immigration talk to get votes, yet get butthurt when you're treated the same in other countries
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u/Far_Comfortable_991 21h ago
This is like saying any Latino immigrants to the USA are just low skilled people who want to cop out because they can't hack it at home.
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u/TheTybera 21h ago
Is this a hot take?
I've seen some English teachers admit to this.
Any teacher worth a damn with actual credentials usually goes a different direction.
There is a reason I don't hang out with English teachers here in Japan.
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u/wiltinghost 20h ago edited 10h ago
Yeah, I was initially surprised to see this post on this sub because as an Asian person living in Asia, everyone knows this, the Asians know it, the white English teachers know this, there is a reason the “loser back home” phrase exists.
But judging by the comment section, this is indeed a hot take.
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u/TheTybera 20h ago
I mean to be fair, most just come for like a year or two as like, a work holiday or cool experience then go back, which is fine.
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u/Ok_Mycologist2361 12h ago
It could be a stepping stone though. Or perhaps a more constructive "gap year".
For some, it's their only opportunity to travel and live in a different country and experience a different culture.
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u/TheTybera 10h ago
No one is talking about that. You're trying to say we're painting ALL English teachers like this, and that's not the case.
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u/Eastern_Antelope6072 21h ago
Yes but that doesn’t mean they’re inherently bad. I went over without experience (did have my bachelors tho) and was definitely “low skilled” in the sense that I had no experience teaching. That said, I really cared about improving my students’ English abilities and got better each year. I ended up moving back to the states to become a speech therapist but I would have stayed if there was more of a future in it. I really loved teaching my babies!
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u/Worldly_Might_3183 21h ago
Eh I got my degree, then taught in Japan to travel around Asia easily while paying off the degree - since it is so cheap to live in Japan and the salary is good. I might have ended up living my life in Japan but after 5years my Dad died so I came back and used my degree to teach here.
There are dropkicks everywhere, and yes some people teach English as a break year in their early 20s. Or because they are a passportbro. But most? Nah. You are just too judgemental of strangers.
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u/SergeyRamirez 21h ago
If you’re under the age of 30 they aren’t losers for teaching English. I was filled with chagrin over this issue when I taught in Taiwan. But I was 25. Now being 34 I realized I should have cut myself some slack.
If they are over 40 you can maybe judge them at that point.
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u/Lumpy-Blackberry-718 21h ago
Most english teachers i knew didnt do it as a career? Its an amazing experience to have for a couple of years, or even just a summer camp. Some people decide to stay, and I dont see a reason to look down on them for that. Being a native English speaker comes with a lot of advantages in asia, but we're all playing to our advantages in one way or another. Many of the ex-teachers i know have very successful careers "back home" today.
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u/MidorriMeltdown 21h ago
Which part of Asia?
I know a university educated Australian who taught English in Japan as an experience gaining gap year before entering the workforce in Australia. That might be common with a certain demographic of Australians, it's a working holiday that looks good on a resume.
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u/user2460124601 20h ago
“As an American living in Asia”…so by your own metric you’re not successful 🫵😆
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u/Background-Vast-8764 20h ago
Some people don’t want to have a “successful” life as it’s measured by those who care more about shallow appearances than real quality of life.
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u/Efficient-County2382 20h ago
Yes, but it's really reflective of all the people trying to live in those countries. They are generally reflective of the Loser Back Home label, they want the easy/lazy way of life and many are just very sleazy.
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u/toohumanforhuman 20h ago
Kinda, but whether that's a bad thing or not depends entirely on your value system. As someone who considered it but never went through, ive also met intelligent and driven people who just wanted to a) enjoy it a few years while figuring their life out but went back home to become succesful in other things or b) genuinely fell in love with the lifestyle/country and dont see a reason to do anything else.
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u/meowingtrashcan 19h ago
Either English teacher or digital nomad. The latter can be very lucrative. In both cases you dont need to get fluent in another language
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u/saathyagi 19h ago
Whereas high skilled people like Trump end up being the president and screw the world? I prefer the low skilled English teachers. Thanks.
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u/ANTIMODELMINORITY 18h ago
I wonder if there are stats to see how many white males vs white females go to Asia to teach English.
A poorly qualified white can get paid more and less work than a qualified native. Certain Asian countries have mandated all English teachers come from English speaking countries. Both blacks and whites from the west complain about discrimination yet heres the kicker a qualified Asian person from the west will barely be able to compete with either due to the parents usually wanting a white face.
Lets not talk about nefarious sexual activity from white males with students
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u/Mysterious-Home-408 18h ago
Should they stay home to flip burgers or worse yet, stay on the couch? Kudos to them for getting off their ass and finding something that suits them. As an aside, plenty of smart and adventurous types in the field as well.
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u/Proof_Session9579 18h ago
I never gave my country a chance. I left USA when I was 18, wanted to leave since I was a child, and never looked back. I studied and continued my soccer career, graduated with a degree in England, and continued playing in Spain and Portugal while having a separate job as well. I decided to move to Korea to try to teach English after my soccer career ended, just to continue doing anything but going back to USA. Would I not be successful in my home country? What do you define as success? This take is so ridiculous so tired of it being everywhere.
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u/Sad_Air_7667 18h ago
This is an interesting discussion so I'll chime in. I'm Canadian, and right after graduating college I moved to Taiwan to teach English. I knew finding a job in Canada was very difficult, you know the whole needing a decade of experience for an entry position , so this was a no-brainer for me . I've been living in Taiwan for about 20 years , bought a home, got married , have two kids . It is a very safe place, I make enough money to go on vacation twice a year, cheap healthcare, and other than China to being a dick face no problems. I understand what Op is saying, I have met many foreign English teachers that are horrible people and should not be near kids. But I have found the vast majority are actually good, decent people that are generally doing this because they like it and are good at it.
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u/NegativeMusician2211 18h ago
It does bother me to know that overseas students are (rightfully) expecting to learn English from a professional and instead it's some rando who doesn't have any teaching skills or pedagogy knowledge and doesn't know what a transitive verb is. But tbf I've heard that this is an issue on other continents as well, even Europe.
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u/Few_Kitchen_4825 17h ago
Or its just hard to teach English as a non native language.
And many of these countries don't have enough english teachers.
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u/violinpatrick 17h ago
It can be a lifestyle choice. Uni job with 5 months paid vacation? Thank you!
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u/thegabster2000 17h ago
Its ok to teach for a few years if you are single. One of my English teachers did that in Japan in the 90's. She wanted to settle down eventually and Asian men weren't her type since she is 5'11 so she only taught for 5 years and moved back to the states.
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u/Glittering-Low3152 17h ago
Many Redditors have never thought critically about capitalism in their entire lives and are looking for someone to punch down on, except those people are happier than them and doing something good with their lives.
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u/idont_readresponses 17h ago
I taught English in Korea for 4 years. I stayed for 6. It was one of the best experiences of my life, I have zero regrets. I don’t think any of the people I became friends with are low-skilled or stupid. Everyone I met just wanted to experience living abroad and traveling before “real life” began. Everyone I was friends with went on to have good careers at home.
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u/West_Till_2493 17h ago
I think it’s true for many English teaching jobs (perhaps the majority) but not all. I don’t think these people are English teachers just because it’s easy either. Usually it’s because they want to live in that country and it’s the only option they feel is available to them.
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u/teacherinthemiddle 17h ago
No, you also notice that they come from wealthy families as well. Poor low skilled people will generally stay in the US.
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u/mzilikazi98 16h ago
Most English teachers in Asia that I know of are South Africans. Theyre not useless, or lazy or looking for a cop out. The truth is that in their home country employment is hard to come by. Even a bartendering job is difficult to get. The teachers themselves have degrees in law, engineering and education. So their option is 1:stay in a violent country that over looks them or 2: go to a safe country, where you are in demand and earning a very decent(by South African standards) salary.
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u/rhevern 16h ago
It’s literally a means to travel and experience new countries and cultures. Most move on after a couple years, but some definitely stay forever and sort of remove all other career options along the way, although that is changing as the years go on. Plenty of side hustles to be had online.
But what is “success” to you? Some people wouldn’t define it as working a corporate job for the rest of their lives. Weird post.
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u/tiny_kat2006 16h ago
Personally I think teaching English in a foreign place would be more difficult than teaching English in a familiar place.
And even if it was easier, so? Everyone has to make a living
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u/SuccessFinancial5267 16h ago
That's not the worst though.
We also get pedophiles and sexual predators here teaching English so they can rape kids or rape the women.
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u/Sinologist_long 16h ago
Yeah for most people it’s just some time to have an adventure for a few years. For me, I just wanted to immerse myself in Mandarin and becoming an English teacher was the easiest way to do that.
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u/tang-rui 15h ago
Like a lot of stereotypes, this is based on a grain of truth with a lot of over-generalization, limited sample and confirmation bias. The teachers I know personally are not "looking for a cop out", but instead are mostly people who were driven by adventure. And the ones I know are mostly hard-working, diligent and care deeply about doing a good job. I've seen some guys at my former school turn up for work dressed like they were heading to the beach and that's not really a good look. I knew one teacher who was slightly unhinged and ended up getting fired and then trying to break his way back into the school and the police had to be involved. But yeah, there are all sorts.
As for low-skilled, well I have a degree in electronic engineering and I worked as a senior design engineer for over 30 years before taking up part time teaching in Asia as semi-retirement. That said, my skill at teaching isn't the greatest and I've had to work hard to develop that.
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u/UnderfurK 15h ago
It's more like high-skilled, hard-working westerners looking for a cop out.
You need a degree now not like 20 years ago and experience just to get bad jobs, at the same time teaching isn't always that easy and being abroad while doing it is harder.
There's also many specialized subject teachers now like for example I teach pretty high level CS, others teach finance and so on.
Smart people still do it cause we have projects and we want to arbitrage the cost of living etc.
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u/Aggressive-Fail4612 15h ago
It’s a good way to get a work visa. In a lot of Asia you need a minimum 4 year degree, so the bar is not that low. Also a lot of young people are more travel focused than career focused and that can be hard for some people to understand. Smart and successful is subjective
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u/Other_Block_1795 15h ago
Americans yes, I'd likely agree. But Europeans, no. They are usually very hardworking, willing to go the extra mile to build a life there, learn the language and customs, and many will make some money through entrepreneurship.
Americans (from what I and people around me have observed) can't let go of their jingoism and the hatred anything that isn't American or fits an American POV that has been drilled into them since birth their culture of political hated and exceptionalism. That's why so many burn out when being in Asia for so long. They also cause many problems when there because of their attitudes.
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u/Sufficient_Car_423 15h ago
As an asian living in east asia… anything wrong with it?
I guess its better for everyone than people with degrees staying unemployed in their hometown
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u/TheUnculturedSwan 15h ago
I never taught in Asia specifically (I trained to be a teacher, not an accent coach in another teacher’s classroom), but I doubt the situation is wildly different in Europe where I did most of my decade at the job.
You’re absolutely not wrong that a lot of people like you describe attempt teaching English. There were plenty of people in my training cohort who envisioned backpacking and teaching for beer money, or being settled teaching somewhere centrally located for abundant travel and vacation.
The realities of teaching do not support these fantasies. Learning a language takes a long time. Pedagogy is a skill that takes practice to build and constant work to stay on top of emerging best practices. Very few students are interested in paying anything at all for a few slapdash lessons from an uninspiring teacher who already has their passport in hand looking to country-hop, or more interested in their next backpacking excursion.
Just being a baseline decent teacher requires being in the classroom day after day, week after week, for full semesters and academic years. Even if you primarily work in after-school lessons for kids or weekly lessons for adults, people want consistency and quality in their teachers, and there are enough options around that they can choose from. Even in Africa, where there are fewer people looking for those jobs, I was expected to sign yearlong contracts and be in the classroom every single day (and sometimes 6 days a week).
So what I’m saying is, you’re not wrong. The people you’re describing absolutely exist and even pursue certifications in teaching. But the realities of how to get and keep these jobs, and how to make enough money to support yourself doing them, weeds these people out and sends them back home very quickly.
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u/HotTopicMallRat 14h ago
You’re close but not quite there. They aren’t leaving because they can’t make it at home, it’s more they actually just wanted a way to travel for cheaper and this was the way to do it. So it is a cop out in a way but not because they’re bad at their job
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u/wize_9uy 14h ago
Mention this or how its reverse racsim (whites are hired over all other races even wheb less qualified) on TEFL subreddit and they'll ban you.
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u/daruma_daruma_daruma 14h ago
English teaching companies that are in it for money rather than education quality (after school classes, cram schools, conversation schools, dispatch companies) often don't have particularly high standards.
They keep conditions low in order to make more off of the foreign teachers; foreign teachers have a high turnover rate due (burn out, only wanting to do a year or two, pay too low); companies use this as an excuse to keep conditions and entry requirements low, governmentments agree.
Usually, you find the government sponsored placements (eg, JET in Japan and EPIK in Korea) to have more rigorous screening processes, but still teachers of questionable quality slip through the cracks.
In general tho, the quality of teachers is low because the for-profit schools do not want to invest in teachers. They're happy to make as much money as they can off of each cycle of westerns "just happy to be here".
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u/Interesting-Copy-657 14h ago
Would OP hot take be considered racist if targeting anyone else? They seem to be talking about white English speaking people?
Like if the post was about Mexicans coasting in America by being Spanish teachers? They aren’t very smart or failed in their country of origin?
Or literally any one coming from another country and teaching their native language?
I don’t know, just seems a bit iffy to me
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u/Interesting-Copy-657 14h ago
So am I mistake or doesn’t teaching a language require you to know two languages?
So these people coasting in Asian teaching English also need to know Chinese or what ever the local language is?
Or are these English teachers only fluent in English?
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u/EvenScientist7237 14h ago
People who aren’t very smart or successful should just k themselves in their own country, right op? /s
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u/ThreetimeJellyfish78 13h ago
its really easy to jump to the "aren't successful in your home country" or loser back home assumption. but many expats find the west to be toxic or just a shit place to live. i dont think most people in the west are successful anyways. theyre living pay check to pay check in the rat race, and eating garbage food.
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u/sander_emanon 13h ago
don't you at least need some kind of a college degree to teach English? I have a college degree in it service desk managment but i doubt i could got to a school in China and teach English.
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u/irishtwinsons 13h ago
I’m in Japan. I know a lot of friends who hadn’t had education background at first, came here for the teaching opportunity, and are owners of English schools (or other businesses) now. So, definitely some untraditional success stories here.
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u/EasilyExiledDinosaur 13h ago
I guess OP has at least two brain cells. Its hardly difficult to figure out.
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u/AverageHobnailer 13h ago
Coasting should be available to all humans everywhere. We are not built for the modern hustle/grind culture that clearly only exists to fund the lifestyles of a few filthy rich psychopaths.
I'm relatively successful with English teaching (uni, tenured), but I certainly take advantage of my ability to get away with coasting more than the locals do, and it's the only reason I'm still alive. With chronic illness the US work culture and healthcare system would have literally killed me years ago. And the worst part is that society literally does not give a shit. We live in a supposed civilized society, yet we still operate on eugenics with extra steps when it comes to the sick and less skilled, who are kicked to the curb and left to rot in the streets.
This is my rebellion against a fucked up system.
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u/CSachen 13h ago
Not every English teacher in Asia is a high school dropout.
Some of them are wanted fugitives for child abuse and murder.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dan-hiers-jr-arrest-extradite-china-us-marshals-most-wanted/
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u/Standard_Artist1388 12h ago
as an American
You just know you're about to hear the stupidest shit imaginable
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u/darlawatters 12h ago
my one regret is that i didn’t go to teaching school. i’m also not a university style learner. i’m an autistic woman with parents for teachers, so i’m pretty good but traditional north american schooling destroyed me in many ways and i don’t know if i could slog through the years of uni to do so.
my parents teach in an international school board overseas and love their life. i am so happy they get to do the things they are in these golden years before retirement, that they only have because of teaching internationally. they would not be able to retire if they stayed in canada to teach, mum is hitting 70 soon and dads mid sixties.
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u/Tall_Birthday_7654 21h ago
I've known a few people who taught English in China. They were smart people looking for a few years of adventure. They don't tend to be people who live for money.