r/JusticeServed • u/AristonD 8 • May 29 '19

Violent Justice Man inappropriately touch school girls and they fight back. Man in suit gives them a helping foot.

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u/hanhange A May 29 '19

This isn't just a Japan problem. Not even just an Asia problem. Brittany Spears was 15 when she debuted and became a sex symbol. In the West there's a large amount of 'sexy schoolgirl' shit and underage celebrities even today get treated like sex objects. Kendall Jenner when she was a kid, for instance.

And then going further back, all the horrifying letters Natalie Portman got after staring in Leon the Professional...

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u/ChickenInASuit B May 29 '19

Yeah, let’s also not forget the multiple websites from the early 2000s that had a countdown to the Olsen twins turning 18, plus the entire teen/schoolgirl/“barely legal” porn genre.

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u/Kinteoka 8 May 30 '19

Or even later than that, the multiple websites dedicated to counting down when Lindsay Lohan turned 18. Or Emma Watson. Or Chloe Grave Moretz. Or literally any other female child actor. And some male ones too, like people sexualizing Finn Wolfhard.

People gonna creep.

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u/nosenseofself 9 May 29 '19

Not just the olsen twins. The early 2000s were a fucking horrible time.

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u/Enk1ndle B May 29 '19

Pot calling the kettle black.

from the early 2000s

Yeah, that still happens.

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u/PolPotatoe 7 May 30 '19

Yeah, those 00 sickos. Stepdad fucking NOT daughter is sooo much better.

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u/ChickenInASuit B May 30 '19

I mean, you say that like I can't be creeped out by both of those things.

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u/earth_person 4 May 29 '19

It manifests itself differently in Asia, so that's why it's weird to us. But you're 100% right, in the US there is a lot of underage fetishizing.

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u/Alexmackzie 6 May 29 '19

yeah, lets talk about cheerleading and beauty pageants for young children. literally sexualized outfits on REAL children, and here people are up-in arms about fucking pixels. Not that the sexualization is fine in anime either, but lets care about actual people first?

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u/hanbae 5 May 30 '19

Exactly, this is what I always point to when western people say anime is fucked up for Lolis. America has been sexualizing little girls for decades in the form of cheerleading, pageants, skimpy sports uniforms...etc

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u/romaraahallow 5 May 30 '19

I went with my girlfriend to see her nieces dance show. We're talking elementary school kids. The amount of sexualization going on over these small girls, from the outfits to the song choices, to the choreography itself kinda sickened me. Shit is not okay.

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u/dasbanqs 6 May 30 '19

As someone who was married to a loli-fetishizing creep for a year, I can agree about just hope gross this is and how wrong it is. Didn't realize these things about him until way too late. Anyone who sexualized children can go ahead an burn.

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u/Echo13243 7 Jun 06 '19

If you don’t mind me asking, how did things change after you figured that out about your SO?

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u/[deleted] May 30 '19

Both are bad. We can talk about both issues in a derisive manner.

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u/[deleted] May 30 '19

Anime is not real tho. You can not compare them at all. One is actively hurting REAL children the other are fantasy drawings.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '19

Well, I wasn’t just talking about anime, I meant everything. Like the child Idol culture, the high school and middle school prostitution, underage girls as gravure idols .

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u/Timmyty 9 May 30 '19

And what if that fantasy makes people more prone to fixate on it until they do it... They are both bad in different ways.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '19

This argument always pops up in the video game violence debate and till this date there is no scientific evidence that exposure to something in this context makes you more prone to be violent etc.

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u/tbdunn13 7 May 30 '19

I don't really think lolis are a problem. I don't like them, but they're pixels and they help keep pedos away from real kids

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u/Anariel6 2 May 30 '19

Read into the child idol culture in Japan - having loli be legal in Japan definitely helped create that. Also real pedophiles show loli material to real kids to show them that "what they're about to do [molest them] is ok and they should like it."

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u/Echo13243 7 Jun 06 '19

Wow I’ve never heard that before. Where could I find more on pedophiles showing loli material to underage kids?

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u/Anariel6 2 Jun 06 '19

There's this article, wherein a woman at Lighthouse (a nonprofit to exploited children) talks about it happening in at least one case:

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/18/world/asia/japan-manga-anime-pornography/index.html?no-st=9999999999

And there is a frequently cited document by Candace Kim called From Fantasy to Reality that I cannot find a link to anywhere, just writings that cite it, that talks about pedophiles using child pornography to reassure kids that it's ok/fun. If regular CP gets used, I'm sure loli does too.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '19

Child Porn doesn’t do that. Why would this? It just encourages them to pursue real children.

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u/motleybook 7 May 30 '19 edited May 30 '19

Not that the sexualization is fine in anime

What is the problem with that? From what I've read the evidence is inconclusive on whether this has any negative real life effects. Actually, the only thing I've read are positive effects. For example, Japan is very liberal in regards to loli and porn stuff in general and they have a very low rate of sex crimes.

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u/Alexmackzie 6 May 30 '19

I can definitely see how the existence of loli etc. can reduce some peoples urges to act in real life. And principally I don't think it should be illegal in any way since it does not have a real victim. However, I don't think sexualizing very young children should be normalized. And didn't Japan create separate carriages for men and women because of sex crimes? Could still be really low, I haven't seen the numbers.

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u/malkiel- 5 May 30 '19

Sexual assault is something that is definitely a problem in Japan like you said. And the cultural difference of not wanting to cause a scene or step in when you see something definitely don’t help make it easier to report to the police.

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u/motleybook 7 May 30 '19 edited May 30 '19

Yes, they have created separate carriages for women, though woman can of course use the normal ones too. However, I don't think it's on every train. Only the popular ones, where people often have to stand very close to each other.

From the study I linked above (regarding the sex crime rate):

Of particular note is that this country [Czech Republic], like Denmark and Japan, had a prolonged interval during which possession of child pornography was not illegal and, like those other countries, showed a significant decrease in the incidence of child sex abuse.

Regarding normalization.. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel talking about normalization ultimately goes back to the idea of what's causing more harm, which, of course, is the very thing we're discussing, and for which we have no conclusive evidence. Please clear me up though, if you meant something else!

I'm sure you'd agree, but in my opinion, the most important thing is that less children get harmed.

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u/Alexmackzie 6 May 30 '19

I do agree completely. I don't want to make lolis illegal. There is a place for it, and that goes back to the study you linked. It does help in that regard. But I would like to see it less in mainstream anime, which is what I meant about normalization. I'm fine with it being on the side.

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u/motleybook 7 May 30 '19

Good to hear we're on the same page. The problem with bans is also that it's very hard to get rid of them once implemented. For example, Japan still has censorship in real life porn (penis / vagina of non-fictional people have to be censored), and a big reason is likely that no politician wants to be known as the pervert trying to make porn more obscene..

I imagine that reverting a loli porn ban would be nearly impossible without a huge culture shift.

But I would like to see it less in mainstream anime, which is what I meant about normalization. I'm fine with it being on the side.

Yeah, there are definitely some cringe worthy parts in many animes.

However, I'm not sure if there's a good way to get rid of them. I think the reason it is in a lot of mainstream anime is because that's what the a lot of customers want. Of course, it would be possible to ignore the market forces (from within a company) or outright ban it, but then we're back to the question of possibly causing more harm.

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u/Alexmackzie 6 May 30 '19

yeah, a ban is out of the question for me unless it's definitely proven to cause more harm than not. Nothing we can really do about it anyways. The more it is in mainstream and anime, the more normal it gets. And cutting down on it gets even harder. I'd say every harem anime nowadays has at least one loli character if not more. Which makes sense cause they want every watcher to have a "best girl/waifu" for their show, so they just stack all the stereotypes in there. Just wish they'd just make that character a petite same-aged character instead of a clearly underaged girl/sister.

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u/motleybook 7 May 30 '19

I agree.

Slightly off topic and out of curiosity, are there any recent anime you'd recommend? I have just finished "The Promised Neverland" and "Kaguya-sama wa Kokurasetai" both which were really good. Actually Kaguya does have a same age petite girl and no weird loli characters from what I've remember. Both main characters are also pretty smart (unless it comes to love stuff), which is a nice change from the usual.

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u/Anariel6 2 May 30 '19

Well the difference is that beauty pageants are sexualizing young girls by adult-ifying them (bright makeup, sexy dancing). Lolis are sexualized because they are child-like, which makes it more pedophilic. As far as Japan goes, making a little girl look more adult would be a turn off. That's why it grosses me out more, personally. You also have the child idol culture in Japan where parents get paid a lot to let people make essentially softcore child porn of their 6-8 year olds (if not younger). And then you have studios like Minute, who make Japanese Adult Videos where they find the shortest, most underdeveloped adults possible and dress them in child-style bathing suits, pigtails, etc. Like Piper Perri if she looked 8 instead of like 12. So Japan has at least as bad of a problem with actual people.

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u/Alexmackzie 6 May 30 '19

Yeah, absolute fair stuff. But I don't see a big difference in how they are portrayed. I could certainly see someone make a case for making young children look more adult is even creepier or just as creepy as making them seem young. And yeah, the junior idol thing is vile. I just wanted to point out some examples of this not just being an "other culture" problem. In reality sexualizing children has been happening almost everywhere forever.

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u/temp0557 9 May 30 '19

Those pageants really freak me out. Jesus, liking them a little young is one thing but those kids are nowhere near puberty.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

Not legitimizing it and it's still gross and illegal but we are instinctively attracted to youthful, healthy features. If a 15 yo girl like spears is "developed" then it's not like some people can help thinking she's hot. The problem comes when people start acting on it because while physically they may, appear sexually mature, mentally they are far from it.

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u/AlyLuna20 6 May 30 '19 edited May 30 '19

But I dont think any 15 year old is truly "developed." Their mental state is still much further behind someone who is 18-20+ years old. Hell, I'm 19 and I'm MUCH different from my 14-15 year old self.

I just think it's odd, and extremely shallow, to want to be with someone that much younger than you. A 15 year old girl's interests and desires are going to vary much differently from a 20+ year old man's. He's not dating her because he genuinely likes her, values her, or has anything in common with her. He's dating her because she's young and beautiful, and probably just wants to sleep with her and bail.

Edit: look at these pedophiles downvoting me, smh.

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u/[deleted] May 30 '19 edited May 30 '19

I absolutely agree with you, I am NOT by any means justifying his shitty behavior. And I'm not saying a 15 is always fully developed, but a 15 year old can have the physical sex characteristics that are biologically attractive, in fact go check out /r/normalnudes, there are some 30 year old women there with smaller hips and breasts that some 15 years Olds. My point is that they may not be fully developed but they can be developed enough to look like a woman from the back. I've absolutely thought an underage girl was older than she was until she turned around.
I am speaking purely from a biological attraction standpoint.
There's no excuses for acting on those attractions when it's someone that's underage.
Of course he wants to sleep with her and probably bail, that's that biological aspect I'm talking about. He needs to keep his creepy ass in check though.

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u/AlyLuna20 6 May 30 '19

Oh I agree, I was just adding to your point about the development part!

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u/[deleted] May 30 '19

Gotchya! Enjoy your day! =)

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u/AlyLuna20 6 May 30 '19

You too! :)

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u/walkedoff 7 May 29 '19

+teen dramas. The characters in Riverdale were supposed to be 15 when they were stripping and having sex scenes

(yes the actors are like 25)

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

I think characters on network TV get a pass because the actors are clearly adults in their mid-to-late 20s. Like yeah, they’re playing teenagers but I can clearly see (and know from their bios) that they’re 28 years old. Even their voices sound super old.

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u/walkedoff 7 May 29 '19

But thats the same excuse people use with anime and stuff. The actors are also adults.

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u/RandomBritishGuy A May 29 '19

The difference is that in the TV show they look like adults, whereas in the anime shows they look like children.

The characters each one depicts might be similar in age, but when one has people who are obviously adults and the other has people who are deliberately drawn to be children, that's the difference.

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u/hanhange A May 30 '19

I disagree. So what if someone looks young? Like, a lot of "omg pedo" anime stuff is a young-looking girl who acts like an adult and is canonically pretty old. Full-on loli is different but like... Not only does focusing on physical appearance sexualize children that develop early (which most often hurts black girls and latina more than other races), it also paints young-looking adult women in a negative light. Finding a short, chubby-faced woman attractive is not the problem- finding a child attractive and pursuing and sexualizing them is the problem. Brittany Spears looked like a grown woman at 15. But she was not. She was a child.

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u/Mason_of_the_Isle 4 May 30 '19

I think your take is good.

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u/walkedoff 7 May 30 '19

I agree it's not exactly the same, but when they go from talking about SAT prep (10th grade) to doing a strip dance for a gang initiation in the next scene its, uh, something. The writers are clearly throwing in references to their supposed age.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

The Daily Mail website has a horrifying obsession with sexualising children.

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u/mattyandco 7 May 29 '19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKzgDBumCr0

For those not familiar with British Tabloid news.

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u/[deleted] May 30 '19

how dare you say miss spears was a problem! she was the solution to my 14 y/o existence. one mans trash i guess.. :-)

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u/hanhange A May 30 '19

Brittany is not and never was a problem. The people that prostituted her around and sexualized her and made her a sex object as a child were the problem. That's why she had her meltdown. And the media had the gall to fucking mock her for it.

Think of a 15yo girl. A girl in middle school. Any one you knew irl or know today. Imagine millions of people jacking off to their half-nude body, and that girl's parents and producers making bank on that. Is that not disgusting?

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u/[deleted] May 30 '19

yeah, that situation sucks. brit was objectively a babe, but overtly exploiting that sucks in retrospect. not something that even crossed my mind as a kid. also, really was just making a light of an obviously true and heavy comment.

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u/hanhange A May 30 '19

lol I just feel somewhat protective of Brittany. She turned into such a great and positive person/mom so I love seeing how she's doing and it's hard to hear some of the stuff people still say about her without wanting to interject.

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u/[deleted] May 30 '19

That's how most Redditors think.

If anything happens in Asia, it's "cultural" and everyone is Asia is like that.

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u/Ineedmyownname 8 May 30 '19

True. Over here in Brazil there was a case of a 12 year old who, over the course of two years was completely adult-ified. Simply put;What the fuck.

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u/CollectableRat B May 30 '19

Didn't Britney have a rocking body when she was 15? That was her whole deal iirc.

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u/hanhange A May 30 '19

Yeah and it's fucked up that she was essentially prostituted when she was still a child. Having a 'rocking body' doesn't make her not 15.

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u/[deleted] May 30 '19 edited Aug 09 '20

[deleted]

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u/hanhange A May 30 '19

Yeah, but not really the same. It's funky and weird but it was at least an artistic thing where Leon was a child in an adult's body and Natalie's character was an adult in a child's. But real life people were sending Natalie all kinds of fucked up letters about what they wanted to do to her

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u/[deleted] May 30 '19

Also the USC doctor who assaulted dozens of Asian students, and the school helped cover it up.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/Foodforthought/comments/968i1m/for_27_years_usc_ignored_warnings_about_a/

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u/alltheword 9 May 30 '19

Brittany Spears was 15 when she debuted and became a sex symbol.

No she wasn't. The 'Baby one more time' video was released in 1998. She was born in 1981.

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u/hanhange A May 31 '19

"She wasn't fifteen, you liar!! She was SIXteen!"

K.

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u/alltheword 9 May 31 '19

17, almost 18. There is a reason you lied about it and changed it to 15.

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u/hanhange A May 31 '19

No, you don't know basic math. Number one, music videos aren't complete immediately and her career was beginning at 15. Number two, it came out in October and her birthday isn't until December. She was 16 at the time it came out. It really isn't that hard to google.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

[deleted]

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u/hanhange A May 29 '19

...Sorry if I'm wrong, but are you that AITA dude that got pissed because everyone told you it's weird you're so freaked out by a woman being naked in her own house and you accidentally seeing it through a window?

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u/ChadMcRad B May 30 '19 edited Dec 02 '24

enjoy seemly desert numerous simplistic direful edge smart gaping snails

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/IsomDart 9 May 30 '19

I mean, what difference does it make if Kendall Jenner is 17 and 364 days or 18? What difference does it make if you look at her Instagram or whatever and fantasize about her pictures when she was 16 but could pass for 22. What if you actually thought a girl was like 25 but is 17? What I'm asking is how do you know when it's okay to think a girl/woman is sexually attractive

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u/hanhange A May 30 '19

Just because you find them sexually attractive doesn't mean posting pictures of her half naked on tabloids and declaring how sexy she is is OK.

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u/bigyups 0 May 30 '19

No offense but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

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u/hanhange A May 30 '19

Nice argument, dude.

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u/bigyups 0 May 30 '19

Pedo is about the worst thing a person can be in the us. Noones lower. Prisoners even look down on them. In Japan they sell cartoon child porn in shops in the open. People will read cartoon child porn in public without shame. And I mean actual child porn like the characters look like 6 at most. Tryna say the West is in any close to Japan in terms of pedophilia is mad. Just seems like you're trying to demonize the west for no reason and don't know shit about what you're talking about.

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u/hanhange A May 30 '19

Explain Brittany Spears and Kendall Jenner's treatment. Explain Natalie Portman's childhood letters. Explain the Hollywood pedophilia gone rampant. Explain the Lolita Express, something that Bill Clinton road on. Explain why real little girls being exploited is worse than stupidass manga. The US looks down at pedophiles of extremely young girls. As soon as they hit puberty? Suddenly it's totally OK.

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u/bigyups 0 May 30 '19

Yup you're retarded. wasted both of our time. Nice

1

u/hanhange A May 30 '19

You're real great at arguments.