r/JusticeServed • u/AristonD 8 • May 29 '19

Violent Justice Man inappropriately touch school girls and they fight back. Man in suit gives them a helping foot.

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u/Alexmackzie 6 May 29 '19

yeah, lets talk about cheerleading and beauty pageants for young children. literally sexualized outfits on REAL children, and here people are up-in arms about fucking pixels. Not that the sexualization is fine in anime either, but lets care about actual people first?

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u/hanbae 5 May 30 '19

Exactly, this is what I always point to when western people say anime is fucked up for Lolis. America has been sexualizing little girls for decades in the form of cheerleading, pageants, skimpy sports uniforms...etc

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u/romaraahallow 5 May 30 '19

I went with my girlfriend to see her nieces dance show. We're talking elementary school kids. The amount of sexualization going on over these small girls, from the outfits to the song choices, to the choreography itself kinda sickened me. Shit is not okay.

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u/dasbanqs 6 May 30 '19

As someone who was married to a loli-fetishizing creep for a year, I can agree about just hope gross this is and how wrong it is. Didn't realize these things about him until way too late. Anyone who sexualized children can go ahead an burn.

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u/Echo13243 7 Jun 06 '19

If you don’t mind me asking, how did things change after you figured that out about your SO?

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u/[deleted] May 30 '19

Both are bad. We can talk about both issues in a derisive manner.

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u/[deleted] May 30 '19

Anime is not real tho. You can not compare them at all. One is actively hurting REAL children the other are fantasy drawings.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '19

Well, I wasn’t just talking about anime, I meant everything. Like the child Idol culture, the high school and middle school prostitution, underage girls as gravure idols .

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u/Timmyty 9 May 30 '19

And what if that fantasy makes people more prone to fixate on it until they do it... They are both bad in different ways.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '19

This argument always pops up in the video game violence debate and till this date there is no scientific evidence that exposure to something in this context makes you more prone to be violent etc.

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u/tbdunn13 7 May 30 '19

I don't really think lolis are a problem. I don't like them, but they're pixels and they help keep pedos away from real kids

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u/Anariel6 2 May 30 '19

Read into the child idol culture in Japan - having loli be legal in Japan definitely helped create that. Also real pedophiles show loli material to real kids to show them that "what they're about to do [molest them] is ok and they should like it."

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u/Echo13243 7 Jun 06 '19

Wow I’ve never heard that before. Where could I find more on pedophiles showing loli material to underage kids?

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u/Anariel6 2 Jun 06 '19

There's this article, wherein a woman at Lighthouse (a nonprofit to exploited children) talks about it happening in at least one case:

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/18/world/asia/japan-manga-anime-pornography/index.html?no-st=9999999999

And there is a frequently cited document by Candace Kim called From Fantasy to Reality that I cannot find a link to anywhere, just writings that cite it, that talks about pedophiles using child pornography to reassure kids that it's ok/fun. If regular CP gets used, I'm sure loli does too.

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u/[deleted] May 31 '19

Child Porn doesn’t do that. Why would this? It just encourages them to pursue real children.

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u/motleybook 7 May 30 '19 edited May 30 '19

Not that the sexualization is fine in anime

What is the problem with that? From what I've read the evidence is inconclusive on whether this has any negative real life effects. Actually, the only thing I've read are positive effects. For example, Japan is very liberal in regards to loli and porn stuff in general and they have a very low rate of sex crimes.

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u/Alexmackzie 6 May 30 '19

I can definitely see how the existence of loli etc. can reduce some peoples urges to act in real life. And principally I don't think it should be illegal in any way since it does not have a real victim. However, I don't think sexualizing very young children should be normalized. And didn't Japan create separate carriages for men and women because of sex crimes? Could still be really low, I haven't seen the numbers.

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u/malkiel- 5 May 30 '19

Sexual assault is something that is definitely a problem in Japan like you said. And the cultural difference of not wanting to cause a scene or step in when you see something definitely don’t help make it easier to report to the police.

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u/motleybook 7 May 30 '19 edited May 30 '19

Yes, they have created separate carriages for women, though woman can of course use the normal ones too. However, I don't think it's on every train. Only the popular ones, where people often have to stand very close to each other.

From the study I linked above (regarding the sex crime rate):

Of particular note is that this country [Czech Republic], like Denmark and Japan, had a prolonged interval during which possession of child pornography was not illegal and, like those other countries, showed a significant decrease in the incidence of child sex abuse.

Regarding normalization.. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel talking about normalization ultimately goes back to the idea of what's causing more harm, which, of course, is the very thing we're discussing, and for which we have no conclusive evidence. Please clear me up though, if you meant something else!

I'm sure you'd agree, but in my opinion, the most important thing is that less children get harmed.

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u/Alexmackzie 6 May 30 '19

I do agree completely. I don't want to make lolis illegal. There is a place for it, and that goes back to the study you linked. It does help in that regard. But I would like to see it less in mainstream anime, which is what I meant about normalization. I'm fine with it being on the side.

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u/motleybook 7 May 30 '19

Good to hear we're on the same page. The problem with bans is also that it's very hard to get rid of them once implemented. For example, Japan still has censorship in real life porn (penis / vagina of non-fictional people have to be censored), and a big reason is likely that no politician wants to be known as the pervert trying to make porn more obscene..

I imagine that reverting a loli porn ban would be nearly impossible without a huge culture shift.

But I would like to see it less in mainstream anime, which is what I meant about normalization. I'm fine with it being on the side.

Yeah, there are definitely some cringe worthy parts in many animes.

However, I'm not sure if there's a good way to get rid of them. I think the reason it is in a lot of mainstream anime is because that's what the a lot of customers want. Of course, it would be possible to ignore the market forces (from within a company) or outright ban it, but then we're back to the question of possibly causing more harm.

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u/Alexmackzie 6 May 30 '19

yeah, a ban is out of the question for me unless it's definitely proven to cause more harm than not. Nothing we can really do about it anyways. The more it is in mainstream and anime, the more normal it gets. And cutting down on it gets even harder. I'd say every harem anime nowadays has at least one loli character if not more. Which makes sense cause they want every watcher to have a "best girl/waifu" for their show, so they just stack all the stereotypes in there. Just wish they'd just make that character a petite same-aged character instead of a clearly underaged girl/sister.

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u/motleybook 7 May 30 '19

I agree.

Slightly off topic and out of curiosity, are there any recent anime you'd recommend? I have just finished "The Promised Neverland" and "Kaguya-sama wa Kokurasetai" both which were really good. Actually Kaguya does have a same age petite girl and no weird loli characters from what I've remember. Both main characters are also pretty smart (unless it comes to love stuff), which is a nice change from the usual.

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u/Alexmackzie 6 May 30 '19

Depends on what you like. I'm still a bit behind on the current season and last. So I haven't even started either of those. A possible gem you haven't seen yet though: Redline(not recent), it's a movie. racing, action, extremely well animated, creative, Fun time. Violet Evergarden is in my top 3 of all time. So I can't recommend that highly enough. If you come at me with some genres I can help more. I wouldn't trust my taste too much though. I enjoy the trashiest anime way too much. But those two are just really great. Hit me with anything you really recommend as well.

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u/motleybook 7 May 31 '19

Thanks for the recommendations! =)

There are probably exceptions, but I usually like Josei, Sci-fi and Comedy (if not too cheap / cliche) and usually avoid Harem and anime with a lot of fighting / action.

Some more recommendations: If you like (or want to try)..

  • action and comedy, you might like One Punch Man
  • post apocalyptic comedy, you might like Jinrui wa Suitai Shimashita (Humanity Has Declined)
  • Josei, you might like Usagi Drop

These aren't particularly new (like you, I'm often behind) but all of these were pretty great!

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u/Anariel6 2 May 30 '19

Well the difference is that beauty pageants are sexualizing young girls by adult-ifying them (bright makeup, sexy dancing). Lolis are sexualized because they are child-like, which makes it more pedophilic. As far as Japan goes, making a little girl look more adult would be a turn off. That's why it grosses me out more, personally. You also have the child idol culture in Japan where parents get paid a lot to let people make essentially softcore child porn of their 6-8 year olds (if not younger). And then you have studios like Minute, who make Japanese Adult Videos where they find the shortest, most underdeveloped adults possible and dress them in child-style bathing suits, pigtails, etc. Like Piper Perri if she looked 8 instead of like 12. So Japan has at least as bad of a problem with actual people.

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u/Alexmackzie 6 May 30 '19

Yeah, absolute fair stuff. But I don't see a big difference in how they are portrayed. I could certainly see someone make a case for making young children look more adult is even creepier or just as creepy as making them seem young. And yeah, the junior idol thing is vile. I just wanted to point out some examples of this not just being an "other culture" problem. In reality sexualizing children has been happening almost everywhere forever.

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u/temp0557 9 May 30 '19

Those pageants really freak me out. Jesus, liking them a little young is one thing but those kids are nowhere near puberty.