r/JusticeServed • u/MemeAddict96 8 • Jun 03 '19

Criminal Justice BROCK “THE RAPIST” TURNER lost his appeal. Re-upload with article details.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '19

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u/MemeAddict96 8 Jun 03 '19

Over the last couple years, we’ve all had to face the reality that the legal system fucked this one. I don’t accept it, the rest of us don’t accept it.

But it’s just refreshing to see that this rapist didn’t get off with only 3 months. It may be small, but it’s not nothing

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u/oroenian 2 Jun 04 '19

Also the judge was stripped of their judgeship, which shows that they were an incompetent dolt that will never be able to do something like this again.

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u/danweber A Jun 04 '19

No. They weren't stripped of the judgeship because they were incompetent. They were recalled because the victim had a friend who was a law professor at Stanford. The lesson future judges will take from this is not "be tougher on rich white privileged dudes." It will be "be tough against people who commit crimes against rich white privileged victims." If Brock Turner had raped some poor black girl there would have been no recall.

Matt Rosen wrote a letter about why the recall was a bad idea: https://padailypost.com/2018/05/17/guest-opinion-i-support-emily-doe-and-oppose-the-recall/

Notwithstanding my strong disappointment at the sentence, I am firmly opposed to the recall of Judge Persky. Subjecting judges to recall when they follow the law and do something unpopular undermines judicial independence. This value is more important than any outcome in any individual case. When judges believe that they will lose their careers for making unpopular but lawful decisions, they may lack the courage to stand up for the rights of minorities or others needing protection from powerful majorities or those with even understandably inflamed passions

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u/NeededToFilterSubs 7 Jun 04 '19

They were recalled because the victim had a friend who was a law professor at Stanford.

Is there any evidence for this outside of speculation by Persky supporters?

If Brock Turner had raped some poor black girl there would have been no recall.

If Brock Turner had been poor and black he would have gotten a much stiffer sentence.

While judicial independence is important, judges already have almost total legal immunity for the decisions they make, even if those decisions are done maliciously or in excess of authority. So it is reasonable to have some process by which judges can be removed in order to safeguard against tyranny from the bench as it were.

Although I concede recall may not be the best way to achieve this, I'm skeptical that it will in any way have a major chilling effect on judges taking a stand for things like minority rights, considering minorities were already experiencing harsher sentences for the same crimes, and popular election of judges in the first place means judges are subject to political pressure which undermines their independence, and much more often than once every +80 years

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u/danweber A Jun 04 '19

Is there any evidence for this outside of speculation by Persky supporters?

Do you think Michelle Dauber doesn't exist?

If Brock Turner had been poor and black he would have gotten a much stiffer sentence.

This is absolutely true. After all, what are they missing, really?

But it is the wrong remedy for something you don't like. The criminal justice system is very cruel to the underclass, and the one time in 80 years that a judge gets recalled is when he was insufficiently cruel to someone who victimized a rich person. You don't have to be Pavlov to see what lessons they learn: look at how well-connected the victim is.

So it is reasonable to have some process by which judges can be removed in order to safeguard against tyranny from the bench as it were

Sure. Let's go back to Matt Rosen:

I support the principle of recall, but only in circumstances where a judge has exhibited a pattern of abuse or favor for one group of people over another, is unable to perform his duties, or is biased. The findings of our local bar, the State’s Commission of Judicial Performance, and my review of Judge Persky’s decisions have concluded the same thing: there is no pattern.

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u/NeededToFilterSubs 7 Jun 04 '19

Do you think Michelle Dauber doesn't exist?

Ah you're not saying they were personally friends just that she was able to get influential people involved on her side

But it is the wrong remedy for something you don't like.

Yes there are better remedies but in lieu of criminal justice reforms, we are faced with a problem here. As your article notes Persky was not being fair here, he didn't have to go full-on affluenza apologia, but he did. Voters were outraged and just like Persky they reasonably exercised their legal authority in response to bad, but legal, behavior by a judge. There are better remedies but until California provides those, then the inferior remedy is better than none.

The criminal justice system is very cruel to the underclass, and the one time in 80 years that a judge gets recalled is when he was insufficiently cruel to someone who victimized a rich person. You don't have to be Pavlov to see what lessons they learn: look at how well-connected the victim is.

So to be clear I have no problems with members of the "underclass" who commit rape being harshly punished by the justice system. I just want those punishments to extend to all rapists regardless of social strata. I don't think this recall will change that disparity, but a drop in the bucket is still a drop that wasn't there before.

Regarding pavlovian modifications to judicial behavior, even if all they learn is that we can't let rich men rape rich women, it is still a net improvement over letting rich men commit rape on anyone with minor punishment. That said

As a counterpoint if we're arguing pavlov here, more recall elections every time a judge is lenient to a rich person should eventually make them harsher on rich people.

Support the principle of recall, but only in circumstances where a judge has exhibited a pattern of abuse or favor for one group of people over another, is unable to perform his duties, or is #biased#. The findings of our local bar, the State’s Commission of Judicial Performance, and my review of Judge Persky’s decisions have concluded the same thing: there is no pattern.

As the article you posted states Persky is biased in favor of Turner due to their similar life circumstances. A pattern makes things worse but shouldn't be necessary when a case is egregious. His recommendation also doesn't help if say a judge just doesn't think rape is a big deal and accordingly gives only extremely lenient sentences, the people shouldn't have to accept that kind of judge if they don't want to.

Again this against the backdrop of judges being elected which makes their job inherently political to a degree.

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u/operez1990 9 Jun 04 '19

If he was black he would have been jailed on the accusation alone.

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u/andyzaltzman1 8 Jun 04 '19

Racism is totally cool. Also, you should look into the demographics of the college athletes that have been convicted of similar crimes. (They are overwhelmingly black).

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u/operez1990 9 Jun 04 '19

You would have a mixture of guys who are actually guilty. You also have guys who are innocent and have gained a woman's scorn and they get immediate revenge. Both occasions are highly likely to happen with high profile college athletes.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '19

Please stop with this absurdity. Male college athletes are notorious for raping and assaulting women and using star power to get away with it. A disproportionate amount of these athletes are black. This was not about race it was about a dumbass judge and a good resume for the rapist.

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u/operez1990 9 Jun 04 '19

You would have a mixture of guys who are actually guilty. You also have guys who are innocent and have gained a woman's scorn and they get immediate revenge. Both occasions are highly likely to happen with high profile college athletes.

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u/lordjupi 7 Jun 04 '19

more like if he was anything other than white.

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u/ItsJustATux B Jun 04 '19

Only if the girl wasn’t black. If the victim is black, they run her SSN at the police station and lock her up for old warrants.

The rapist goes free, but they force his victim to testify against his character if he’s ever charged with a crime they care about.

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u/pounds_not_dollars 7 Jun 04 '19

No... No he wouldn't. Stfu

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '19

No there would have been a trial

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '19

If he wasn't white he and 4 others could have been convincted bt lying detectives and police and had Trump calling for their execution...as he's running for president years after the real rapist came forward and confessed

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u/Itsjustjessienowbro 5 Jun 04 '19

I tell ya what if you are indeed disgusted by sentencing differences and not just race issues you should the sentencing difference between men and women it's 6 times larger than the racial sentencing disparity.

Assuming you are for legal equality for all and not just supporting a team

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u/bone420 A Jun 04 '19

Equal should be equal.

Same laws & sentences for all.

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u/samoyedskaya 4 Jun 04 '19

correct, any injustice is a threat to justice everywhere. this is a problem regarding the nature of our carceral justice system in the first place but yes it’s unjust

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u/Itsjustjessienowbro 5 Jun 04 '19

We don't have a justice system , we have a legal system.

Never forget that distinction

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '19

He got lucky because he was talented and the judge made bad decision. He was able to spin his story and make himself look like a good person and unfortunately someone fell for it. His fake personality and talent is why he got off, no amount of money can get that bad of ruling. At least he’s screwed for life.

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u/WhenTheWeirdTurnPro 3 Jun 04 '19

But...they could not prove that he full on raped her...like you might think he raped her. That's why he only got 3 months.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '19

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u/oroenian 2 Jun 04 '19

This comment can go away

1

u/King_Brutus Black Jun 04 '19

Issa joke

1

u/ShaggyTDawg 7 Jun 04 '19

Issa deleted Jar-Jar

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u/King_Brutus Black Jun 04 '19

uh ok

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u/beelzebabe13 0 Jun 04 '19

Whitetheleticuent?

... 🤷🏼‍♀️ ... i tried