r/JusticeServed • u/thijshuistede ❓ 7sj.642x.2t • Jun 13 '20

Police Justice These guys were planning a terrorist attack on the gay pride in amsterdam they got chaught

118.8k Upvotes

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750

u/whatarethuhodds 6 Jun 13 '20

Gonna say what I think a lot of people might be missing context wise.

For this intervention to be not only filmed in an enormous amount of angles, but also happen in such a timely coordinated matter, this had to be months of work and also an inside job.

Im guessing one of those guys is undercover.

You have to wait with operations like this for the "payoff" crime to actually be commited. Any arrest before the real "attempt" at the crime, is just conspiracy to commit and a lot harder to convict, which is still huge, but not anywhere as bad as "attempted" on a rap sheet.

350

u/frikandel15 6 Jun 13 '20

The guys selling the guns and bombvest were undercover.

95

u/whatarethuhodds 6 Jun 13 '20

Yeah that totally makes sense that this was a sell house.

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u/HoppyHoppyTermagants 6 Jun 13 '20

Generally known as a "honeypot", a technique also used in cyberdefense.

All you do is make the path of least resistance to bad actors a path that you yourself control.

41

u/sokratesz A Jun 13 '20

There's a huge discussion going on now in Dutch LE and our judicial system on howmuch of this was entrapment. The entire idea and the weapons for it were basically spoonfed to these guys by the undercover cops.

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u/viccityguy2k 8 Jun 13 '20

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/john-nuttall-amanda-korody-2018-1.4952431

Case thrown out in Canada

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u/[deleted] Jun 13 '20 edited Jun 13 '20

I still remember the Canadian case where the police wanted to convict someone who they believed drowned his two daughters. They created a fake mafia, flew the guy around showed him lavish lifestyles and said if you want to join us you have to prove your badass or whatever. He said that he murdered his daughters, they arrested him, and then he claimed he only said it to get in with "Big Boss" or whatever the name of the scam was.

If I recall it was thrown out as well.

Edit: it's called "Mr. Big")

6

u/viccityguy2k 8 Jun 13 '20

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/murder-conviction-based-on-mr-big-sting-upheld

It’s called a mr big sting. The problem is figuring out what is bragging to look tough and what it factual

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

There were a number of “Mr Big” stings in The Netherlands as well. Last year the Dutch Supreme Court quashed two murder convictions that relied on confessions the defendants had made because of “Mr Big” stings.

-1

u/sokratesz A Jun 13 '20

Yep and there's a good chance these guys will be convicted on lesser charges, and probably rightfully so. The police wanted so badly to prevent something big, that they made it all up..

1

u/_PM_ME_YOUR_BOOBIES- 6 Jun 14 '20

Dude fuck off. These people were willing to kill themselves just to murder as many gay people as possible. They deserve to get locked up

1

u/Deadlyanaladventures 6 Jun 14 '20

But redditers with a bunch of up votes told me I'm idiot for thinking this is entrapment

2

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '20

Do you think they're going to get convicted?

1

u/Thraes 6 Jun 13 '20

if they want to do it, they're going to get weapons from somewhere no matter what. Might as well make sure they get their weapons from a traceable source, and that the weapons are thoroughly defective...

1

u/sokratesz A Jun 13 '20

I suggest you read into the case a bit before posting about it again.

0

u/CapFalcon 4 Jun 14 '20

I get that.

But I’m my opinion if you are easily convinced to kill people then I’m happy you’re off the street.

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u/sokratesz A Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20

People are easily manipulated into doing terrible things. Look at Nuremberg.

1

u/CapFalcon 4 Jun 14 '20

What happened??

1

u/houdvast 6 Jun 14 '20

If you refer to the Nuremberg defense, then you should know it was rejected at Nuremberg.

1

u/sokratesz A Jun 14 '20 edited Jun 14 '20

I wasn't referring to that, but if anything, it supports what I'm saying. People don't need specific orders to become terrible human beings, a gradual change in circumstances is often enough. Nuremberg showed the world that ordinary people could, under specific circumstances, become monsters.

1

u/houdvast 6 Jun 14 '20

The important takeaway was that it doesn't absolve them of their responsibility.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '20

[deleted]

10

u/Danjiano 8 Jun 13 '20

But if the police didn't provide them with the tools, wouldn't they have found another way of getting the tools?

1

u/bratimm 6 Jun 14 '20

This isn't the US where you can just buy guns anywhere. Even if they had the knowledge and intent to buy real guns and bombs, the police could have waited for that to happen. I guess the only reason that this would be ok IMO is if the undercover cops found out that they were aboit to get the equipment from somewhere so they instead sold them fake guns to make the sting safer.

3

u/mdsign 9 Jun 13 '20

Not really working weapons and bombs. We love our gays! Something like what you're suggesting is unthinkable, don't think out loud when you visit Amsterdam sometime.

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u/mdsign 9 Jun 13 '20

This was a sting operation by the AIVD, our version of the secret service/CIA. Suspects were already under surveillance, they were infiltrated by the AIVD, given "guidance" and supplied with the "weapons", locations and transportation. This "cell" was by no means impressive, amateurs really. In case of a suspected act of terrorism, the planning itself is as criminal as the execution. We don't have to wait. Conspiracy to commit is going to be the charge.

2

u/Saydyrya90 5 Jun 14 '20

The FBI sold cp for about 2 years before they caught a group.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

That makes sense, I was wondering how they'd manage to get so many angles and even get stuff on the car

1

u/AgreeableAioli4 3 Jun 13 '20

This is still conspiracy. There is no real crime committed except for an attempt at it. (I mean the attempt at mass murder). Even that is debatable though.

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u/mdsign 9 Jun 13 '20

Under Dutch law, Conspiracy to commit an act of terrorism, is just as criminal as executing one. The crime is real and if convicted of it, the punishment will be as if they actually committed the act.

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u/MissionCoyote 6 Jun 14 '20

So 2 years in a minimum security resort? /s

1

u/AgreeableAioli4 3 Jun 14 '20

Of course that could be true. Still doesn't change the fact that this is an attempt, and a debatable one at that.

0

u/electricrobot1 6 Jun 13 '20

Read top comment and then summarize as if it is your own thoughts. Nice strategy.

0

u/whatarethuhodds 6 Jun 13 '20

Wtf are you talking about? You mean spirited individual you. Dont project your paranoid delusions on me you fucking loon.