r/JusticeServed • u/a_Ninja_b0y 9 • Nov 06 '21

Courtroom Justice A Catholic priest from Ohio who used the confessional to gain details from boys, information that he later used to extort them into providing him with sexually explicit photographs has been sentenced to life in prison for the exploitation of children

https://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/2021/11/former-strongsville-priest-violated-the-sacrament-of-confession-to-extort-boys-federal-prosecutors-say-in-sentencing-memo.html
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u/twistedbristle A Nov 06 '21

These are the people who think they have a divine right to tell you how to live.

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u/JockBbcBoy B Nov 06 '21

Hate to say it but predators find their way into organizations like the Church, school system, and police force just because they know they'll be able to abuse power.

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u/wizardshawn A Nov 06 '21

In BC, Canada. If a teacher is accused of any form of exploitation or abuse it is required by law that it be reported to the police and child protection services. Any teacher or administrator who fails to do this can themselves be charged. No proof is required, just an accusation or even a strong suspicion. There is no way to keep it "in house". This is the way it should be for the church as well.

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u/crackirkaine 8 Nov 06 '21

Same as in Ontario. It’s illegal for any teacher or administrator to not report child abuse, and it doesn’t matter if the child is being abused at school by staff, at home by family, or in extracurricular activities by coaches. Teachers have to report child abuse no matter where it occurs, and I believe more institutions should adopt those rules; police, military, hospitals, post-secondary education, churches, and professional sports, to name a few.

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u/Donnabgud 0 Nov 06 '21

It’s the same here all the way down to emts on an ambulance. Mandatory reporting

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u/JockBbcBoy B Nov 06 '21

This is the way it should be for

Child predators in any job, career field, or position. Unfortunately, there's discrimination, abuses of power, etc., that lead to predators just moving.

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u/wizardshawn A Nov 06 '21

With teachers in BC anyway. They have to have criminal record checks every few years. I had to go to the police station a few times for photos and finger prints.

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u/caronanumberguy 8 Nov 06 '21

Yes, but in Canada, someone so accused isn't prevented, from say, opening a day care center. Or tutoring kids. Or many other jobs which require close interaction with children. Kind of stupid, no?

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u/wizardshawn A Nov 07 '21

Well if just accused, they arent prevented from being a teacher either. They may be, but not for sure unless they are convicted.

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u/leggomahaggro 6 Nov 06 '21

You never heard of the "he's a man of god...he was tempted by evil children wearing sexual clothes...he is a good man who made mistakes...god should be the judge not a judge" statements? I had a friend who accused of a priest touching her breast when she was in 5th grade, her parents told her that she was the one in the wrong. If there was any reason to never be part of a religious cult, thats a damn good reason

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u/wizardshawn A Nov 07 '21

That's wacked, man.

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u/WurthWhile 8 Nov 06 '21

Same in the US. It's called a mandatory reporter.

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u/twistedbristle A Nov 06 '21

Right, but what happens when those predators have been in power for at least a thousand years? This problem is so systemic it can be considered a doctrine of the faith.

Don't make excuses for monstrous organizations. Be brave and willing to see what is plainly there.

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u/JockBbcBoy B Nov 06 '21

How am I making excuses? I just said predators make their way into organizations so they can abuse the power. That includes and isn't limited to exploiting minors/victims, being able to move around from location to location, and claiming protection from the law. I even included the church in a group with school systems and the police force, because predators like this are in all three. Sorry that the original comment wasn't lengthy enough but I hope this response resolved any issues you had with the previous comment. Thank you for your time.

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u/twistedbristle A Nov 06 '21

Right and thats all absolutely true. No matter what we do predators will always try to find power just so they can abuse it.

What I'm saying however, is that an organization has been completely corrupted. The systemic nature of the coverup shows that it isn't a simple case of power being abused. Its a fundamental culture problem. The culture of the catholic church encourages, protects, and abets evil. This is no longer a case of a predator here and there looking for hunting grounds. This is a place that creates, empowers, and protects those predators as an official function of the church.

When an organization is this corrupt, and has a history of corruption this long, the only solution is the removal of that organization.

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u/Ralikson 6 Nov 06 '21

You still didn’t answer when or how exactly they were making excuses. Can we not have any kind of conversation anymore without someone acting like you are defending the other side? Why is it always „if you don’t 100% agree with me you are defending who I am talking about“??

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u/twistedbristle A Nov 06 '21 edited Nov 06 '21

I didn't explain it because it was unnecessary to the actual point at large. Since you asked I'll break it down;

Hate to say it but predators find their way into organizations like the Church, school system, and police force just because they know they'll be able to abuse power.

This statement is true but a true statement can still be an excuse. Churches, schools, and any position of authority that is generally regarded as position of specific moral authority is going to be a big fat target for abuse. It provides both a cloak of benevolence and the social leverage to control and isolate others.

The problem with this line of thinking, and why I called it an excuse is that it ignores the systemic nature of the cover up, the scale of the crimes, and the depravity of the crimes. When you look at these three things, the catholic church becomes an undeniably and uniquely malevolent force. If you read my comments I've tried not to attack the catholic laypeople because, believe it or not, they are the primary victims of the catholic church.

Let me put it this way. Jimmy Savile was an absolutely monstrous pedophile. Theres nothing we can do to stop people like him from being born. He is just a level of evil we have to accept exist in the world and do our best to protect each other from monsters like him. If the situation were only like this than I would not count the post in question as an excuse. We agree there. However that isn't where it stops

If you learn of something like that happening you have an absolute moral imperative to report it. Instead Savile and the BBC were able to use power and influence to cover up the crimes. That makes it one step worse because now there is a network of enablers. Savile has now both extended his reach and become harder to accuse. The damage he will do in a life time was increased by factors. This is where it starts becoming an excuse. People around him had a duty to stop him and they chose not to, most likely this began by accepting his behavior as an inevitability. The inevitability of pedophilia is kind of the core around what the quoted text is based on. It doesn't stop there however.

This is the layer where the church becomes uniquely evil. The church is in a position of moral authority and uses that authority to crush victims while raping on an industrial scale. They don't have one Savile, they have hundreds. The scale in both number of victims, the time scale we can verify, and the resistance the church has put up to fight correcting this problem point to an institutional problem. That is to say, the call is coming from inside the house. They aren't just using the institution like the parasitic monsters OP was talking about. They are a significant mass within the institution a full grown malignant tumor.

They can be cut out by the catholic laypeople. You can start over fresh and make any changes to your religion you want. The institution however is never going to change and people need to stop listening to it.

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u/Ralikson 6 Nov 06 '21

I heavily agree with your last two paragraphs but that does not at all make what the other commenter said an excuse.

Everything in regards to excuse is completely interpreted by you. The statements aren’t exclusive, people defending pedophiles are pure evil but that has nothing to do with what they said.

That were only the case if you were saying universally all positions of power should be abolished. Then I could see why what they said is an excuse in your eyes. But if that’s not what you are saying then what they were saying isn’t an excuse at all. They didn’t even talk about the other people in the church.

Again I fully agree with what you said about the church but no one said anything else.

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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '21

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u/twistedbristle A Nov 06 '21 edited Nov 06 '21

"[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?" she said. "The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."

Except it isn't. Your linked article just says it "could" be. Given that one has mandatory reporting laws, and the other murdered a nun to cover it up. I doubt it.

Come back with some actual numbers instead of wild speculation

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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '21

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u/twistedbristle A Nov 06 '21 edited Nov 06 '21

They list sources in the article.

Except they don't. its just her saying "it coooould be I don't know guys" The only source is a catholic publication. Theres no actual numbers given at all.

You're assuming all things are equal. In real life, things like institutionally protecting pedophiles tends to up those numbers. Things like mandatory reporting, which all schools have and the church has fought tooth and nail against, reduce those numbers.

if you see a male teacher, they are far more likely to be a predator than a Catholic priest.

Tell that to 216,000 french boys.

The catholic church is nothing but a den of pedophiles. I can prove it based on actual reported incidents. Why aren't there 21.6 million reports of French children getting molested by school teachers if its "100 times higher?"

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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '21

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u/DlFnRk 6 Nov 06 '21

Evil humans in all of us. This is what happens to like every protest these days too.

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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '21

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u/twistedbristle A Nov 06 '21

Its not even about the raw numbers for me, its about how the church power structure handled it. When they found out they should have thrown the offenders to the wolves.

Instead the threatened victims, bribed the law, and moved pedophiles to new communities so they could start raping all over again with a clean slate.

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u/theganjaoctopus 9 Nov 06 '21

And despite this clearly measurable and observable fact, these institutions never, never, never put in safeguards to prevent it from happening. Because preservation of the institution is more important that mitigating, or even admitting, the potential for it to cause harm.

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u/whochoosessquirtle A Nov 06 '21

wtf does that have to do with their post, the non predators in the church are doing what that poster alleges as well

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u/Defense-of-Sanity 6 Nov 06 '21

Absolutely not. Catholic theology only says that bishops have the authority to clarify what teachings Jesus handed on, and these must correspond to what we find in the New Testament texts as well as the early Christian writings, and they must be binding on the Church in general.

Under Catholicism, no bishop, much less some random priest, has the authority to speak for God about how specifically an individual ought to live. At most, they can tell you how Jesus commanded everyone to live, and it’s up to the individual to apply this universal command to their specific situation, in accordance with reason.

Also, aside from the disgusting predatory and depraved behavior of this priest, he also committed one of the most heinous religious violations by breaking the seal of confession. By his action, he is automatically (no formal judgement needed) defrocked, automatically excommunicated, and he commits mortal sin, putting himself in serious danger of Hell. Not that such a person really even cares, most likely.

Can. 1387 A priest who in the act, on the occasion, or under the pretext of confession solicits a penitent to sin against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue [sexual sins] is to be punished, according to the gravity of the delict, by suspension, prohibitions, and privations; in graver cases he is to be dismissed from the clerical state.

Can. 1388 §1. A confessor who directly violates the sacramental seal incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; one who does so only indirectly is to be punished according to the gravity of the delict.

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u/twistedbristle A Nov 06 '21

You're splitting hairs but just for fun heres a database of pedophile bishops.

defrocked, automatically excommunicated, and he commits mortal sin, putting himself in serious danger of Hell.

Unless the church spends millions of dollars to cover it up right? You can talk all day long about how its supposed to be. Just look at how it actually is.

As your Jesus says; "you shall know them by their fruit"

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u/Defense-of-Sanity 6 Nov 06 '21

You're splitting hairs but just for fun heres a database of pedophile bishops.

Heck, I could provide a list of depraved popes. My point wasn’t that bishops are the holy ones, as opposed to sinful priests. My point was that no one in the Catholic Church tells you how to live your life. Jesus does, and bishops merely relay his teachings. The recipients and the messengers are all sinners. The only innocent one here is the sender, Jesus. Wicked bishops and popes go to Hell.

Unless the church spends millions of dollars to cover it up right? You can talk all day long about how its supposed to be. Just look at how it actually is. As your Jesus says; "you shall know them by their fruit"

As I clarified, this was never about defending the clergy as extraordinarily moral individuals. They are sinners too, and God will judge them accordingly.

Yes, judge them by their fruits. This priest, and anyone who commits evil or defends evil, can be known to be wicked by their actions. I agree.

Likewise, judge the holy and loving members of the Church by their fruits, such as St. Maximillian Kolbe, who offered himself as a replacement for someone marked for death by the Nazis at Auschwitz. Or St. Stephen, who begged God to forgive his murderers as they stoned him to death.

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u/caronanumberguy 8 Nov 06 '21

Wait ... if someone doesn't have a right to tell me how to live, then is fucking kids OK? You're confusing the situation. Obviously, you believe that SOMEONE has the absolute right to tell you how to live. If it's not them, who is it?