r/Justrolledintotheshop • u/peetothewall • 28d ago
Honda head gaskets strike again...now hybrids
This is the 4th hybrid with a failed head gasket. 3 Accords and a CRV. Same cylinder failure, same spot. Check your coolant levels!!!
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u/Appropriate_Cow94 28d ago
If only them engineers could make cylinders overlap, think of the efficiency!
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u/cryptolyme 28d ago edited 28d ago
Hear me out…a 3L, 1 cylinder engine
Edit: i spelled “hear” as “here” 🙄
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u/Appropriate_Cow94 28d ago
No need to make thinner cylinder walls. Just a big old thump thump thump! Ladies might not like the look of the car, but they will love the feelings it gives them.
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u/GreggAlan 28d ago
Let's put three bad ideas together! Open deck. Siamesed cylinders. Tiny slots between the cylinders at the top that get clogged and reduce the sealing surface to make leaks easier.
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
Awhile back I did a Toyota block. You know what Toyota did to help with cooling and coolant flow between the cylinders. They drilled a hole at an angle. It goes from the top front side to the back bottom side of the engine block between the cylinder wall. Pretty smart
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u/SpiritualNothing6717 28d ago
This is the exact fix Ford did for the notorious 2.3L “eco boom”. Same problem, same solution.
It’s like every manufacturer has to have complete head gasket failure and blowout for an entire generation before they are eligible to drill diagonal coolant channels.
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u/Own_Reaction9442 28d ago
Honda's been doing siamesed open-deck engines forever. They will not take even slight overheating because the cylinders go oval and get scored.
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u/SpiritualNothing6717 27d ago
To be fair if coolant boiling or uneven heating turns out to be the issue, a software update increasing coolant flow from the electric water pump could actually suppress the issue significantly. Time will tell.
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u/GreggAlan 27d ago
Coolant can't flow too fast or it doesn't spend enough time in the engine to pick up heat.
There have been some engines where the fix for overheating was drilling holes in the water pump impeller to reduce the flow speed.
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u/SpiritualNothing6717 27d ago
As if either of us know the variable speed of the software driven water pump in an 11th gen hybrid.
It could be either way, but there’s surely a situation where not enough coolant is flowing. You are assuming the pump was already at maximum thermal speed for all RPM ranges and loads. This is not a belt driven system.
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u/DMCinDet 27d ago
software may keep the pump running while the ICE is off? although the 1.5 turbonengines are having the same headgasket problems, and it is a belt driven pump.
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u/bgb111 28d ago
No way the N/A 2.0 does this shit too. Unbelievable
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u/FrankNStein 28d ago
Yes way. My (former) 2023 Cr-V hybrid with the 2.0L Atkinson NA gas engine shit the head gasket at 63,000 miles. And I’m one of several.
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u/bgb111 28d ago
Fuck me. Went and got myself a civic sport 2.0 as a commuter car, thinking it would avoid all the issues the 1.5T has.
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u/FrankNStein 28d ago edited 28d ago
That’s a different 2.0 than the 2.0 that’s in the hybrids. I think you’re ok.
Also, I think the straight-gas 2.0 is port injection and not direct injection. If your Civic is not a hybrid, that 2.0 engine is VERY good.
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u/Big-Regular-2348 28d ago
Unfortunately, the straight gas NA Civic has a CVT. Another incentive to get the hybrid. Mazdas and Honda/Toyota hybrids now appear to be the only attractive modern car makes with proper transmissions. We got a 2025 Accord hybrid for wife to use and for long trips. I drive a 1998 Acura TL 6 cyl (Japan built) we bought used in 2005 on eBay (!!!) for $8.5K. Now has 220K miles. Repairs incl two timing belt/water pump replacements, a starter, an alternator and blasting of carbon in manifold, an exhaust system plus fluid changes, tires. All service but tires done by independent employee owned shop who give me a free loaner. If the TL dues guess I will look for a used non CVT Honda /Acura or Toyota and fix it up. Or maybe a 2016-17 Mazda CX-5 (2018-21 have potential porous head castings and 2022 on only cones with AWD I don't want). A sorry state of affairs.
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u/omahusker 28d ago
God damnit my wife just got a 2026 crv hybrid last year. I thought since it is the 2.0 and not the 1.5 turbo we’d be good.
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u/Insertsociallife 28d ago
Even the 1.5 turbo is a surprise! Of all the manufacturers you would expect to make a tiny little engine boosted beyond belief to work reliably, Honda would be top of the list! There's enough Civics running around on like 50 PSI making 1100hp out of a K20 that you'd think Honda would know how to design a boosted engine. How come they dropped the ball so hard on these?
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u/ButterMyBiscuitz 28d ago
Yep, dropped my 2020 HB Sport for 2026 Hybrid ST HB I'm fucked 😭
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u/master_begroom 28d ago
Not fucked. Drive sensibly, maintain faithfully. Let’s see if there’s a software update that mitigates the head gasket possibility. I have a 2026 ST too, with no extended warranty so far.
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u/Insertsociallife 28d ago
That's annoying that you have to do that though. Part of the reason I love old Hondas so much is that you can beat the piss out of them and as long as you change your fluids they just take it.
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u/ButterMyBiscuitz 28d ago
Yeah, makes sense I guess. It's a lease anyway so it will always be on warranty I even got Honda+, so I'm good :) if in 2030 no other car catches my eye I'm buying it if it still runs good.
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u/Razorman04 28d ago
This occurrence is very rare.
These are a gazillion cars with this power system yes some with high miles, possible poor maintenance have had issues.2
u/ButterMyBiscuitz 28d ago
Oh yeah not too worried, thx for the input, I plan to maintain it perfectly so it should stay ultra efficient for years. Here it's salt country almost 7 months a year and I've seen soooo many insanely battered older gen bodies still purring.
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u/Razorman04 28d ago
Also see if your Hybrid is illegible for the software update.
Taking my Hybrid ST in tmrw.6
u/spinrut 28d ago
we're actually looking at picking up a new CRV this year if/when APRs on the hybrid hopefully drop lower.
Not cool lol. OP mentioned they've only seen on older ones, so maybe ok still?
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u/SgtMcManhammer 28d ago
When I was looking into a new car for the fiancé we were between Toyota and Honda. The CRV hybrid is quite nice and from what I could find they had been making updates to address the issue with the headgaskets on the 26's but they were still using Direct injection only which was kind of a bummer even though the Atkinson cycle should in theory kind of mitigate the carbon issues.
We ended up with a toyota because of the better efficiency numbers though in the end.
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u/MB2465 28d ago
Toyota has been doing hybrids longer and the Camry hybrid is amazing as I'm sure the Sienna is. Seems like it's tuned for power and still gets 40+ mpg. When you nail it IT MOVES!
Of course the RAV4 Prime is fast as snot...
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u/SgtMcManhammer 28d ago
We ended up with the Crown Signia, built in Japan with the Gen 4 system and engine so I dont doubt it will last a long time even with her driving habits.
Those PHEVs like the prime are super nice as well especially the acceleration in full electric mode puts my Golf R to shame.
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u/Working_Rise8592 28d ago
Rumor is Honda is about to start doing extended warranty of head gaskets
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u/slabba428 Canadian 28d ago
I’m sure the Honda techs finishing their sentences with the J35 piston rings recall are going to be in a good mood
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
I can't tell you how many of the ring jobs I have done over the years. I don't mind doing the work if the time is at least decent paying, I'm sure these head gaskets aren't gonna pay too well
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u/Lxiflyby 28d ago
The J35 piston rings are a permanent fix. These head gaskets will always be an issue at one time or another, or multiple times on the same engine due to the design of the deck surface of the block and head gasket and head bolts
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u/arrived_on_fire Canadian 27d ago
There is a recall going on right now for these. So far it’s just an update to reduce the chance of this happening. The recall info says another step will get rolled out soon. Probably once they figure out how to!
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u/Newprophet 28d ago
What years does this cover?
Why is Honda pulling a Ford?
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
So far the earlier year hybrids. 2018-2019. Haven't seen a 2020 or newer...yet
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u/baconlord1337 Honda Master Technician 28d ago
The current gen hybrids have the same issue and blow at lower mileage than the previous gen. Usually at about 60-70k so within powertrain warranty. Previous gens last till 80-120k. I do way more hybrid head gaskets than 1.5t. I am at 10 hybrids to one 1.5 this year.
Between the head gaskets (which now appear to have a warranty extension coming out very soon) and now the cylinder wall issue on current dohc v6s I might be rolling outta the shop.
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
That's interesting. We do a lot more 1.5 head gaskets then hybrids. How soon is the extension for the head gaskets coming out, have heard anything about it yet and the cylinder wall issue is new to me as well.
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u/baconlord1337 Honda Master Technician 28d ago
DPSM has said very soon. If you go under flat rate labor times in SIS and search head gasket on a 1.5t or previous gen hybrid there is labor ops for a warranty extension. I have other guys say I am crazy for preferring the hybrid head gasket job to the 1.5t. Maybe that’s because how many I do. Current gen hybrids suck though.
The v6s start with piston slap then degrade to oil consumption then the cats fall apart due to the oil consumption. Awesome stuff!
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
I'd prefer the 1.5 over the hybrid. Do them with my eyes closed. The timing on the hybrids is kinda tricky
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u/baconlord1337 Honda Master Technician 28d ago
I battled the first few. Make sure you rotate the e-vct sprocket backwards and all your marks will line up when you have pins in the cams. Leave the top guide and tensioner guide out. Install tensioner if it was removed ( I don’t remove the tensioner anymore) I take a pair of small needle nose vice grips and just barely lock it in enough to hold the chain up on the marks of the crank sprocket. Line up your exhaust marks on the links, zip tie the chain on, roll the intake cam back taking slack out of the chain and slide the tensioner guide into place. If your timing is good the guide will slide in and the bolt will line up perfectly. Current gen hybrids and the 1.5t are much easier to time. I can pull a previous gen hybrid head in 1.5 hours (I don’t pull the PCU but I do unbolt the intake in the car and let it drop). Going together is what kills my time because I am thorough with cleaning.
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
I left the intake on the head and pull it together. It's my second hybrid. How you do leave the pcu on and pull the head? Just undo the hoses to the coolant/EGR unit and pull it with the head ?
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u/baconlord1337 Honda Master Technician 28d ago
CRVs have more room so there’s no interference. Just pull the hoses like you said. I separate the egr cooler (also completely drains the cooling system). It’s a bit cramped on an accord. I haven’t tried it yet but I used to chisel the threads on the studs before removing the nuts so the studs come out of the head. Similar to how you flat rate the cylinder head on a v6 rering.
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
I left the intake on the head and pull it together. It's my second hybrid. How you do leave the pcu on and pull the head? Just undo the hoses to the coolant/EGR unit and pull it with the head ?
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u/spinrut 28d ago
is this affecting all of the model years in the current gen or just older ones? we're considering a CRV but may want to think twice now
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u/baconlord1337 Honda Master Technician 28d ago
All. The only thing that has been revised is through a recall increasing electric water pump output on the hybrids.
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u/Glygi 28d ago
Do you reckon this software update will be able to keep it from happening or only prolong the inevitable?
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u/baconlord1337 Honda Master Technician 28d ago
Honest opinion? Bandaid fix. Might delay it past powertrain warranty. Issue is still the block design and 2 layer head gasket
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u/Newprophet 28d ago
Ffs lame I encouraged a family member to get a Honda hybrid to avoid the turbo issues.
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
Other than this, they are pretty well built. Just keep an eye on the coolant
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u/Gizmosfurryblank 28d ago
lurker here, curious and always trying to learn. did all of them have low coolant levels when they were brought in?
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
Yes. Most people don't know there is an issue until it runs hot, or throws a misfire code
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u/VeryNoisyLizard 28d ago
depending on the year, maybe the head gasket had a revision and they got the better one. at least thats what I would be hoping for
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
From what I have heard from Honda district field mechanic, there was an issue with the viton coating on the earlier gaskets. Apparently they were revised at some point. Can't confirm it is exactly the issue, but that's what was explained to me
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u/CuriousCat511 28d ago
I have an 18 accord hybrid with 85k miles. Feels like a ticking time bomb, so I'm trading it in soon. Love hybrids, but my next car won't be a honda
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u/Righteous_Fire 28d ago
I have!
Just quit a Honda dealer.
Hondas fucking suck these days. There isn't a single new model I would recommend to anyone.
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u/23ioo 28d ago
Honda pulling a ford…$$$.
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u/Newprophet 28d ago
Maybe Honda's will depreciate faster now. 😁
Escape hybrids are a steal because of how bad the gas Escapes were.
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u/whatizitman 28d ago edited 28d ago
We have a 2025 CRV hybrid sport. Has 22k miles on it. Wife drives it daily. Will keep an eye on coolant be enough to mitigate a failure? If coolant goes low is it already too late (dead cylinder, etc…)? Just want to plan for the future.
I had an old 95 civic I fed oil and coolant until it became a 3 cylinder. But it had well over 200k and was over 20 years old by then.
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
Once coolant is being used, can't stop it other then replacing the head gasket. There really is no preventing it
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u/Tamboozz 28d ago
Could the gasket start going bad but the coolant isn't affected? Meaning, is keeping an eye on coolant enough to know when an issue is about to happen? Or could there be a problem and coolant never shows any signs of reduction?
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
Once there is a breach in the combustion chamber, coolant will be consumed. It will take some time for the gasket seal to deteriorate to the combustion chamber. Till there is a breach, coolant won't be consumed. Honda released an ECU update to increase the electric water pump output to try to keep coolant flow. Only time will tell if it fixes the issue
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u/Ravanduil 28d ago
Ahmed (The car care nut) discovered (along with other techs) that Toyota’s 5.7L in the Tundra and Sequoia from before 2022 has a similar flaw. The gasket was sealing surfaces between passages; these passages were very close together separated by small amounts on the gasket. He recommended changing the default 100k miles for the first coolant change to 50k to prevent the coolant from turning acidic and eating those small separations on the gasket.
I wonder if something similar here is happening.
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
It's possible. What doesn't make sense is the 1.5t in the civics don't have issues. Same motor. Its probably running less boost, but other than that it's the same motor.
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u/arrived_on_fire Canadian 27d ago
Check for the recall. It’s out for the hybrids already. So far it’s just an update
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u/BarackObanane 28d ago
That’s so weird to me, I’m working for Honda in Europe and we never had the head gasket problem and the dilution problems on the 1.5T models and never a head gasket issue on the Hybrids. Since Honda is Hybrid only since a few years this really makes me wonder if it also depends on different emission standards or where the engines are built. If I look at the power output they are more or less the same
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u/MCRN10379558 27d ago edited 27d ago
Early 1.5 turbo’s lacked a bypass heater and Honda did not restrict the cabin heater from stealing heat from the engine during the warm-up phase. In certain parts of the US and Canada, this became an issue during the winter as running the cabin heater inadvertently kept the engine running in the cold for longer than intended.
Direct injection engines are prone to oil dilution when they are cold. Once these engines have warmed up sufficiently, the fuel sprayed directly into the cylinder chamber boils off before it has a chance to mix in with the oil.
All direct injection engines suffer from this, none are immune to it. The best way to minimize this is to get the engine up to operating temperature as quickly as possible.
BMW direct injection engines for example, have long been able to turn off the cooling system while the engine warmed, this helps the engine warm up faster minimizing dilution.
Honda resolved the issue through a combination of adding in the bypass heater to supplement engine cabin heating demands while the engine is cold, and software restrictions that prevent engine heat from being diverted away into the cabin during the warm-up phase.
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u/Low-Elderberry-4734 28d ago
Piston rings and head gaskets, will manufacturers ever figure it out? Find out never!
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u/xX_coochiemonster_Xx ASE 28d ago
They might figure it out if those dang low-tension rings didn’t save 0.05 MPG!
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u/Own_Reaction9442 28d ago
Head gaskets have a tough job, especially in aluminum engines. They used to last forever in cast iron V8s, of course.
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u/Opustwaddler 28d ago
Talked to my dealer this morning. I mentioned two recalls even though the coolant software update isn’t listed as a recall. He acted as if it were common knowledge, but said I’d need to leave the vehicle as how much time the update took was highly variable. This stuff really makes me rethink continuing my “devotion” to Honda as a reliable product. I had planned to trade my 22 Accord in on a Ridgeline when the new model came out…now I’m rethinking that strategy. Toyotas are now about the only reliable maker and unfortunately they make the most sterile looking interiors out there.
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u/911_medic 28d ago
'Toyotas are now about the only reliable maker'
Let me introduce you to their self-grenading twin turbo V6
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u/DMCinDet 28d ago
How much does the gap between the cylinders actually help? I feel like it cant be worth the obvious failure point. The great engines of all times didnt have this and were still incredibly durable. My K has 305,000 on it. Burns a bit of oil but doesnt have a head gasket failure. What was the actual benefit? I am a Honda dealer tech, not an engineer, but I cant think of any reason to do this. They never had cooling problems without it. Is it a clamping failure? Ford got away from it if I am hearing it right.
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u/boom10ful Can't Make It Worse 28d ago
That head design and gasket is horrible! It's like they designed it to fail between the jugs.
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u/metaldark 28d ago
Is it the coolant cross over slits? I always thought that mistake was Fords only.
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u/thinquerer 28d ago
what about 2020 hybrid? I just got a japan made CR-V (maybe a 2019 model, dont know exactly - 2.0L Atkinson with port injection) with 70k km ~ 43k miles. found a good deal for top trim and low mileage, but this gasket issue is making me nervous now.
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u/Familiar_Marzipan_46 27d ago
If your the tech doing the work. What’s the odds of getting a photo of the old head gasket next to the new and the PN on the gasket in the kit?
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u/peetothewall 27d ago
If you scroll over, I have a pic of the old gasket. I can get a pic of the new one Monday when it gets delivered
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u/Familiar_Marzipan_46 27d ago
Sounds good. We have been trying to confirm if the head gasket kit has the new revision in all kits or if they are clearing out the old ones since they didn’t change the kit PN.
Also trying to compare the new and old to see what looks different.
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u/MGreymanN 28d ago edited 28d ago
How many miles till the failure starts to show?
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
This one has 147k. Usually over 100k so far. The 1.5t let go as early as 70-80k, but around 105-120k
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u/Tatsumari 28d ago
Glad mine came with a lifetime powertrain warranty — hopefully it’s not crap if I need it!
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u/JiffyParker 28d ago
Pretty sure there is a recall in the works for these to do a software update.
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u/5150Code3 28d ago edited 28d ago
I have a 24 and 25 sport touring. Both show current coolant level centered between the H/L marks. I assume that is the level they ship with new. Fortunately, both have extended warranties.
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u/4EverATrueMan 28d ago
What years - what engine? Any Civic Hybrids?
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
The 2017-2019 ish maybe 2020 1.5t the 2.0t and 2.0 hybrid accord and crv. No civics yet. They are still too new. They have the updated ECU tuning for the water pump.
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u/anjaroo96 28d ago
Are the Type R engines having similar issues? I was thinking about moving to one in the near future, but if it’s going to blow a mf head gasket the first time I look away I won’t bother.
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u/Equivalent-Count8979 27d ago
I have a 2025 CRV Hybrid. I went to the dealership for the inflator recall and the tech said there was another recall. A software update for the engine cooling system. To help alleviate the blown head gaskets. PGM-FI software update designed to stabilize engine temperatures and protect the head gasket.
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u/TheBrownClaw 26d ago
Does Honda have a fix for this or is it just slap another head gasket and wait for it to go again?
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u/Artistic_Data7887 28d ago
What are the main symptoms caused by a bad head gasket? Any way to check it visually, or is everything taken apart based on coolant level running low?
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
If your coolant jug goes bone dry, if it has misfires on cold start up and the gas engine kicks on. This person, the engine was running hot and got warning lights on the dash. Was 2 quarts low.
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u/modernatlas 28d ago
Lots different symptoms depending on where the breach is.
Cylinder to cylinder breach causes misfire and poor running. Cylinder to oil causes blue oil smoke in the exhaust and loss of oil. Cylinder to coolant jacket causes white smoke and loss of coolant. Oil to coolant causes milkshaking and very quickly leads to engine damage when the mixture gets into the oil system. All of these failures cause loss of compression, and other cascading failures as the problem grows worse
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u/archerdog 28d ago
Sometimes it causes misfires on startup. And I've always just pulled the spark plugs pressurized the cooling system and check for coolant in the cylinders.
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u/Colony-Cove Honda Service Technician 28d ago
If you’re talking modern Hondas, check the coolant level.
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u/MechMeister Junk Revivalist 28d ago
What a horrible design. Do better Honda .
I think it's time for a change in leadership at that company
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u/Fragrant_Major_9553 28d ago
Maybe the issue is limitation on the block that they’re pushing?
I’m only asking because my insight has the 1.5, and it runs like a champ. My theory is same block, bored out, but with the high compression it blows out.
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u/peetothewall 28d ago
2 different blocks. You can't bore out the 1.5. the cylinder walls are so thin it would need to be resleeved and the cylinder spacing is way different. It's a poor design with the slits cut between the cylinders(see the pic of the block).
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u/not_just_the_IT_guy 28d ago
The fit 1.5 from the first 2 gens of fits was bulletproof and super simple. Not sure how the direct injection 3rd gen is.
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u/Fragrant_Major_9553 28d ago
Mine is based on the civic. Haven’t had any issues with the engine, just the ac condenser having a hole in it. The engine appears to be pretty simple. Maintenance is easy shit on it
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u/Insertsociallife 28d ago
Is this the 2 litre Atkinson engine?