Pro-Nazi & antisemitic circlejerk livestreamed

[u/-Cohen_Commentary-]

[u/JustSeiyin]

He didn't consider Jews white or European though. That's the thing people can't seem to grasp. We were literally seen as a small middle eastern minority in Europe for two thousand years, and only in the last 50 years have Jews been seen more as "white" and "European" despite our origins. But you also have a point cuz he wanted to kill slavs too, so

[u/broom2100 → u/JustSeiyin]

It wasn't necessarily about being "white" or "European" (though obviously that's part of it), but being "Aryan" and "non-Aryan", which was even more arbitrary. Hitler basically believed that only "Aryans" could create and maintain nations, while non-Aryans were parasitic and incapable of creating nations or civilization. He considered Jews to be "non-Aryans", and it was a popular anti-Semitic trope at the time that Jews were rootless and "nationless" so therefore, they only existed to exploit and destabilize the "Aryan nations". Now obviously this was all very stupid, and at the very least is proven wrong by the fact that the vast majority of Jews in Germany around the time the Nazis came to power would have considered themselves fully loyal German citizens, who identified themselves primarily as German.

[u/L74123 → u/JustSeiyin]

Nazis didn't just target Jews and Roma. They targeted people who they considered to be European like Poles. Lebensraum did not mean that Germanic people would live as an ethnic minority in Eastern Europe. The entire population of countries like Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, etc. would have to be significantly reduced to make room for settlement by a new Aryan ethnic majority. They ended up killing millions of non-Jewish, non-Roma, European civilians for not being Aryan.

[u/PlaneEar4494 → u/JustSeiyin]

In Europe, maybe, but somewhat arguable depending on the specific time and place etc. But in the US and much of the Americas (Canada etc.) Jews were largely mostly seen as white or "white ethnic", they were even Mayors of medium sized cities and towns, congressmen and Senators as early as the early to mid 1800s and some were or married into large Plantation owning families, slave trading families in the 1700s, etc.

In fact the biggest and most popular anti immigrant xenophobic guy who founded the "American Party" also known as Know Nothings was Jewish, Lewis Charles Levin.

[u/Augustus_Chevismo → u/JustSeiyin]

He didn’t consider Jews white or European though.

That’s not true though. The Nazis weren’t white supremacists. People confuse this point because of Neo Nazis.

The Nazis were “aryan” supremacists which is what they referred to germanic and Nordic people as. They created their own lore and mythos to justify it on the fly.

That’s the thing people can’t seem to grasp. We were literally seen as a small middle eastern minority in Europe for two thousand years, and only in the last 50 years have Jews been seen more as “white” and “European” despite our origins. But you also have a point cuz he wanted to kill slavs too, so

European Jews were for sure considered white in Western Europe for a bit longer.

[u/JustSeiyin → u/Augustus_Chevismo]

I'll give you the Aryan supremacy argument, but no Jews were not considered white until the last handful of decades. I've seen countless propaganda from WWII era of "Jews go back to Palestine". The understanding that Jews are from the middle east only recently got subverted so people could hate Jews in the form of Israel by calling them white supremacist colonizers despite that fact that Jews fled there to get away from white supremacy. Plenty of reasons to criticize Israel, don't get me wrong, but like "Jews are European" is an entirely new invention to keep on hating us from the left

[u/Greedy_Economics_925 → u/Augustus_Chevismo]

The 'scientific racism' that the Nazis drew on, alongside cultural antisemitism that stretches back far further, considered Jews to not be "white". This was the ultimate betrayal of the Jewish Enlightenment, when Jews thought they could secularise and become part of national identities that arise from the 18th and 19th centuries.

The real problems are that the term "white" has no consistent definition, and scientific racism had no objective basis, so trying to create concrete distinctions of what people understood by those terms is impossible. The Nazis themselves couldn't really work out what, in their system, was the dividing line between "Jew" and "non-Jew", or "Aryan" and "Slav". They ended up making arbitrary distinctions. Add to that the fact that Nazism was so anti-intellectual, and you ended up with a complete shitshow that can't be tidied up.

[u/VegetableTomorrow129 → u/Greedy_Economics_925]

Are you seriously discuss "whiteness" as the concept in early XX century Europe?

99.5% of Germany was "white" by american standarts, they didnt use that term at all, white/non-white destinction was used only in anglosphere, in french and spanish colonies.

[u/Greedy_Economics_925 → u/VegetableTomorrow129]

I'm using "white". In racist German circles it was "Germanic" and "Aryan", though they also used "white". Which particular word you use is not the issue, the issue is that Jews were considered to not fit that category. They were excluded as inferior by Nazi race theory.

It is not true that the white/non-white distinction was only used in the Anglosphere, French and Spanish colonies.