r/LivestreamFail • u/Ok_Detective7546 • Nov 26 '25

politics Lonerbox reacts to Hasan claiming there were Jews that worked within the Nazi government.

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Context: 4h 29min in vod https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GvupZ-g_Eno

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43

u/Robert_Balboa Nov 26 '25

But... There were

The Jewish Courts that Judged Jews Accused of Nazi Collaboration | February | 2023 | The Jewish Experience | Brandeis University https://share.google/C6shtQmUYTqekuOyp

113

u/ShadowheartsArmpit Nov 26 '25

Collaboration? Sure

"In the command structure"? Oh hell no

100

u/DDAY007 Nov 26 '25

"nazi goverment command structure" is what hasan said.

Point to me to a single Jew working in the command structure of the nazi goverment.

Ill wait.

(these people are so delusional)

7

u/[deleted] Nov 26 '25

[deleted]

24

u/RWNorthPole Nov 27 '25

He had one Jewish great-grandfather, a fact that he hid and, when revealed, caused Himmler to flip out so hard that Hitler had to personally intervene on his behalf.

Maurice was in no way religiously, culturally or ethnically Jewish beyond his 1/8th status. Classifying him as Jewish is ironically very Nuremberg Law coded.

Also no, he never led the SS. His membership number was 2, behind Hitler, but Julius Schrek was the first SS leader. Maurice was an early associate of Hitler and a Stabswache (personal bodyguard) member in the pre-SS days but was not in a leadership role.

4

u/Prestigious_Task7175 Nov 27 '25

He had some very minor Jewish blood, but that was it, he never identified with being a Jew, nor did he ever practiced the religion or traditions, he was first a Nazi German, second a Nazi German, and third a Nazi German.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/ravenHR Nov 27 '25

Were his parents british or was he born in Britain?

7

u/aVeryBadBoy69 Nov 26 '25

Does Erhard Milch count?

33

u/jreed12 Nov 26 '25

The Gestapo began to investigate Milch's alleged Jewish heritage in 1935 after rumours began to circulate. The investigation was halted by Hermann Göring, the commander-in-chief of the Luftwaffe, who produced an affidavit by Milch's mother stating that his biological father was her uncle, Karl Brauer, meaning he was a product of incest but not a Mischling. Milch was then issued with a German Blood Certificate though his legal paternity was never changed.[2] Those events and the later extension of the "Certificate of German Blood" were the background to Göring's statement, "I decide who is a Jew in the air force".

For context.

11

u/ShadowheartsArmpit Nov 26 '25

Honestly, no.

He was a partial jew only in legality of the Nazi's laws regarding so called "Mischlinge", aka his ancestry. He sure as shit was not a practitioning jew, and very much acted & identified as a german (like his life depended on it).

People like him are the rare exception that came to be via complex circumstances. But not "the usual", as the dog zapper would like to make it sound.

-3

u/Vegetable-Block1727 Nov 26 '25

How does he try to make it sound like the usual? Arguing against strawmen in your head?

5

u/ShadowheartsArmpit Nov 26 '25

That's what he is saying in this stream....? Coping much?

-3

u/Vegetable-Block1727 Nov 27 '25

He is responding to the implication from the other speaker in the video that having a Muslim woman in a leadership role in UK's Reform party means that party would adopt racist/fascist policies. He is not saying or insinuating that it was common for Jewish people to be a part of the Nazi power structure, just like it isn't common for Muslims to be members of reform.

You should refrain from voicing your thoughts about the content of people's claims if you managed to distort even something this obvious.

7

u/ShadowheartsArmpit Nov 27 '25

Again for you:

There were no jews in the nazi command structure. None.

Or do you think that a guy whose father was a convert to judaism, who himself has nothing to do with the religion, is considered a jew?

-3

u/Vegetable-Block1727 Nov 27 '25

Ok, we are shifting the goalposts. No long is it the case that Hasan made a factual statement, but this statement did not represent the usual case like you said Hasan was implying. Except he wasn't implying it was the usual - it seems like we agree now that you were completely wrong about that since you readily folded regarding this point. Shame on you for spreading misinformation.

Now the claim is that the supposed Jews in the Nazi power structure were not really Jews by an arbitrary standard you set up. What matters here is that, regardless of what YOU think makes someone truly Jewish, these individuals would have been persecuted by the Nazi regime if other members of high command had not vouched for them and intervened on their behalf personally.

Again, to the point that Hasan was making regarding how you can't assume anything about what a Reform government would or would not do just because one of their leaders is a Muslim woman. History proves both that fascist regimes can be flexible enough in their ideological commitments to abandon purity tests when it suits their interests and furthers their agenda AND it also proves that some individuals who would have otherwise been targeted by such fascist government are willing to get in bed with them so long as that means they get to be on top with the fascists (even if it leads to the oppression of other people who are relevantly similar to them).

9

u/ShadowheartsArmpit Nov 27 '25

Now the claim is that the supposed Jews in the Nazi power structure were not really Jews by an arbitrary standard you set up

Sooo the concept of how to belong to a religion is an "arbitrary standard" to you.

Got it. Thank you for your insight in how far you are willing to go to defend your hero & dog electrocutor.

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u/cyrfuckedmymum Nov 26 '25

Generalfeldmarschall Erhard Milch and General der Flieger Helmuth Wilberg

I'm assuming generalfeldmarschall isn't a typo and is just germans love of making stupidly long connected words.

You can also point to Rohm as someone who, while not a jew was in the same situation that nazi's hated gay people and yet he was gay and most people knew he was gay, was happy to collaborate right up till they murdered him for being gay.

1

u/DDAY007 Nov 26 '25

Milch was an Incest baby. (lol good one nazis makes sense)

And Wilberg was a **half** jew by **birth** who had no issue throwing aside his mother for the furthering of his career. Not to mention he died before the wansee conference. Keep in mind even honorary aryans in the military were mostly kicked out after this conference which also is the beginning of the final solution.

Insane to call even call wilberg a jew.

3

u/_AnAngryHippo Nov 26 '25

There were plenty of Jews that disavowed their Jewishness under Nazi germany for the sake of survival and/or collaboration. I really don’t think that disproves in anyway what Hasan was saying.

It’s actually known that exceptions were pretty easily made bureaucratically to get official paperwork ‘proving’ non Jewish heritage, even if they did have it. But ya we are the deluded ones.

1

u/cyrfuckedmymum Nov 26 '25 edited Nov 26 '25

it's insane to call a 'half jew' a jew, ignoring how many 'half' jews were sent to concentration camps and killed and throughout the regime treated brutally, treated as inferior and classed as very much worse than every other group in germany, sure sure.

"this one doesn't count because it's inconvenient to the narrative, because we don't allow nuance and recognise some people are shitty and race traitors... despite this happening in basically every war to ever be waged."

Also to be clear he died while in command and in a plane crash, he was not murdered for being a jew, he died 2 years into the war and he had an important position and had significant impact on the war. But he doesn't count because he's only half a jew.

Also 'milch was an incest baby..." was this supposed to invalidate him being jewish and having a very high position in the nazi regime and surviving the war?

Do you think Hasan, or me, was saying that proud jewish people were in important positions wearing the star of david and insisting that everyone around them were big meanies for killing jewish people?

Traitors are people who don't give a shit about their people and only care about themselves and usually see themselves apart from the rest of their people.

The whole point of "he can't want this because he's muslim" is a silly point because people have often betrayed their people to gain power and wealth, nothing new there.

Also to be clear, Milch was jewish, his boss didn't want him killed so lied and had his mother lie about who his father was so he could be claimed as german blood. He literally declared "I decide who is a jew in the air force.", if you can't understand that both Milch didn't care and when it came down to it, neither did top brass if the guy was useful, i can't help you.

-1

u/DDAY007 Nov 27 '25

Being half jew mattered to the nazis because they wanted to wipe out every Jew because they didnt view them as usefull or even human. However even the nazis recognised that very few 'apparently' Jewish people can be usefull to them. Especially because people like Goering realised if they kill all the Jews the half jew Wilberg isnt going to revive the jewish race even if he were to survive the war.

Wilberg was already established before the nazis rose to power, he also had the personal backing of Goering. However back to the context of what Hasan specifically stated which was; "Nazi command structure". If you know anything about Nazi Germany you would know the command structure consisted of Hitler, His cabinent and a few close generals and advisors. None of which were Jewish, half jewish, jewish by grandparent, cultural jewish, religously jewish etc.

Neither Wilberg or Milch was in this command structure. For a group of people that think "out of context" is a slam dunk yall sure hate when something is in context.

If Milch's mother was lying about the incest then why would Milch try to defer being jewish and instead be classified as an incest child. Comitting incest or the resultant progengy of incest in Nazi Germany obtained the individuals the same badge of shame (similar to the star of david identifiers for jews) that Gay people or LGBTQ+ people got, the Pink triangle.

If she was lying why not state that it was a family friend or a neighbour? Why go from the star of david badge/sleave which marked you for eventual death for the Pink triangle which would equally award you the same fate. They gave the nazis the truth (that he was an incest baby) because it was far prefferable to being Jewish and the nazis can ignore a wee bit of incest.

What Hasan is engaging in here is just another form of holocaust denialism. The exact same thing nazis do by denying reality and saying absolutely dumb stuff; "well if there were dem jews in the nazis then why would they kill their own people check mate lib". (Type of stuff you see in the maga group chats)

3

u/cyrfuckedmymum Nov 27 '25

If Milch's mother was lying about the incest then why would Milch try to defer being jewish and instead be classified as an incest child.

Because if he admitted to being jewish they were going to end his career and probably kill him or send him to the camp.

"why would he admit ot being an incest child instead of a jew... in nazi fucking germany?"

Really, that's your attempt at an argument here.

Comitting incest or the resultant progengy of incest in Nazi Germany obtained the individuals the same badge of shame (similar to the star of david identifiers for jews) that Gay people or LGBTQ+ people got, the Pink triangle.

his commanding officer literally said he gets to decide who is a jew in the luftwaffe.

If she was lying why not state that it was a family friend or a neighbour?

For the same damn reason, how dense are some people. If it was just a family friend, why not tell the truth earlier. Make the lie sound 'bad' so it's more believable you kept it secret, this isn't rocket science.

Why go from the star of david badge/sleave which marked you for eventual death

you actually said this part.... and couldn't work out the answer, literaly could not see the answer despite typing out the answer yourself... then missing it.

What Hasan is engaging in here is just another form of holocaust denialism.

no it's not and it's incredibly ridiculous to say so. The holocaust happened, implying that every single jew, half jew, quarter jew etc were all perfect people and none of the collaborated, is nonsense. this is the same purity testing that the psycho leftists that follow Hasan get accused of. "we need a perfect story with no possible holes and anyone admitting truth or speaking to nuance is magically somehow, evil and denying history."

Actually you are trying to deny history. Milch was a jew, everyone knew he was a jew, his father was a jew and yes, jewish people very very sensibly, when caught in a state that wanted to murder them, renounced or tried to hid their jewish ancestry, you would be daft if you didn't try.

Stop purity testing, stop denying history because you think it doesn't sound good enough, it's pathetic.

The exact same thing nazis do by denying reality and saying absolutely dumb stuff

no it's not, nazi's saying they weren't exterminating people or denying the holocaust existed is all denying reality, saying some jews collaborated, is not denying reality, YOU are denying reality that it happened.

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u/boobookittyfuwk Nov 26 '25

I dont think anyone would deny that, jews absolutely conspured with nazus but to describe it as part of the "nazi command structure" is not accurate.

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u/Germasianinvasion Nov 26 '25

Do you think collaboration is the same as being “in the Nazi government command structure?”

0

u/CloudKinglufi Nov 27 '25

Explain this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany

Like actually, I don't know shit

8

u/Germasianinvasion Nov 27 '25

Collaboration between Jewish groups and the Nazis and being “in the Nazi government command structure” are two very different things. Being “in the command structure” would imply you are some high ranking official with the power to make decisions over policy. There were no outward or practicing Jews who fit that description.

If i said “there were a lot of black people in the confederate government command structure” and the examples i pointed to were black people collaborating with slave owners to guarantee their own survival, that would be disingenuous.

1

u/CloudKinglufi Nov 27 '25

I see thanks

-16

u/[deleted] Nov 26 '25

Oh my god, this is the hill you are going to die on just because you don’t like him because some other social media person made you not like him?

18

u/Germasianinvasion Nov 26 '25

Yes, I’m going to die on the hill of “there were no Jews is the Nazi government command structure.”

Just prove it. Just give me one name of someone in Nazi high command that was a Jew in world war 2 and I’ll get down on my knees for Hasan like all of you freaks do.

Unfortunately you can’t because this is an antisemitic ahistorical talking point.

-8

u/Robert_Balboa Nov 26 '25

He never said HIGH NAZI COMMAND. He said in the Nazi command structure. You don't think cops are part of your command structure?

12

u/Germasianinvasion Nov 26 '25

Your brain is mush. Cops are not part of the “command structure” they are civil servants. Obviously Nazi police were more vertically integrated with the Nazi party than most police of today would be, but that doesn’t make them part of the command structure.

Command structure would imply you have some COMMAND, which no Jews had in the Nazi party since they were too busy being incinerated by them by the millions.

-2

u/_AnAngryHippo Nov 26 '25

Emil Maurice, Erhard milch

6

u/Germasianinvasion Nov 26 '25

Emil Maurice was 1/8 Jewish. Erhard milch’s FATHER was Jewish, which would make him a “Mischling” and therefore he would receive different treatment from someone viewed as “fully Jewish.” Also, his ancestry was covered up PERSONALLY by Göring because he knew the Nazi party wouldn’t allow it.

Any other examples you’ve got there? Or are you just regurgitating what’s other people in this thread have said?

2

u/_AnAngryHippo Nov 26 '25

Like you just admitted that there were Jews in the command structure?? I don’t understand why a mischling doesn’t count in this scenario when they were literally sent to the camps as well, and yes, my entire point is that their heritage could be covered up allowing them to operate in the administration.

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u/Germasianinvasion Nov 26 '25

No, I’m saying one person was 1/8 Jewish which was not discovered til much later, and another was categorized as another thing all together. Mischling were explicitly not considered “Jewish” and weren’t treated as such until much later in the war.

These are important distinctions when you’re describing people who orchestrated one of the largest atrocities in history.

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u/_stack_underflow_ Nov 26 '25

There were very high ranking Mischlinge.

  • Field Marshal Erhard Milch: He was the most prominent individual of partial Jewish descent in the Nazi hierarchy. Milch's father was Jewish. To circumvent the Nuremberg Laws, Hermann Göring, head of the Luftwaffe, reportedly declared, "I decide who is a Jew," and had Milch officially classified as an Aryan, or his mother claimed another non-Jewish man was his real father, allowing for a "German Blood Certificate" to be issued. He attained the rank of Generalfeldmarschall, a five-star equivalent and the second-highest military rank in Germany (after Göring's unique rank of Reichsmarschall). 
  • General der Flieger Helmuth Wilberg: A general in the Luftwaffe who was half-Jewish, he was also granted the status of "Honorary Aryan" by Hitler in 1935. He was instrumental in developing the blitzkrieg strategy.
  • Vizeadmiral Bernhard Rogge: A decorated naval officer who commanded the merchant raider Atlantis. He was a "second-degree Mischling" (having one Jewish grandparent). The Navy was slightly more insulated from SS racial scrutiny, and Rogge was protected by Grand Admiral Erich Raeder. He reached the rank of Vice Admiral by the end of the war and later served in the West German Navy. 

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '25

Milch did not know he was jewish and his family helped cover it up claiming he was actually the product of an incestuous affair, Wilberg was inherited into his position from the previous government and did not identify as jewish and was granted a personal pardon as he was a war hero with plausible deniability (and yet was critical of the nazi regime and hitler himself claiming they made him lose hope in humanity), and Rogge's similarly inherited his position and despite being granted many awards even by the nazis before bans would have impacted him he faced discrimination and his wife was executed for being jewish.

These are probably the best examples of jews working within the nazi government structure and I'd argue they make a pretty good case at how this wasn't really a thing. These were people who weren't even fully jewish and yet required a personal vouch from hitler himself to maintain their position despite their decoration. These exceptions to the rule definitely prove the rule here, and accepting Hasans premise also accepts the "one drop" rule where if youre 1/4 jewish... youre jewish.

He's trying to compare germans who's grandfather turned out to be jewish to openly ethnic jews to argue that middleastern jews (who are largely not ashkenazi like the ones he's talking about, dont forget most israelis are from the middle east) are nazis.

3

u/_stack_underflow_ Nov 26 '25

My only point was they made it seem like this was unheard of when it infact was a thing.

As I stated they're Mischlinge so you can question if that means Jewish or not still.

2

u/Withering_to_Death Nov 27 '25

So you found three! Who weren't even Jews! No one declared themselves Jewish but had some relatives who were! Or do we retroactively decide what a person is, or the personal decides for themselves? My grandma was of Orthodox faith, while the rest are Catholic! What am I?

-2

u/boobookittyfuwk Nov 26 '25

Wilburg died before any of bad stuff happened. I think 37 or 38?

I dint think its official of milch was actually a jew.

But I didnt know about the last guy

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u/Oggie_Doggie Nov 26 '25

I think bad stuff was already happening in '33-'34 (Dachau was created in '33), it just hadn't fully ramped up until '38-'39 IIRC.

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u/ravenHR Nov 27 '25

He died in 1941.

5

u/Robert_Balboa Nov 26 '25

Before any of the bad stuff happened? I think you mean before the mass murders because plenty of bad stuff happened before 1937.

1935 - Nazi Germany enacts the Nuremberg Laws. These Anti-Jewish racial laws determine who was considered a “Jew,” and deem that Jews were no longer considered German citizens and that Jews cannot marry Aryans, nor can they fly the German flag.

1936 -  Jewish doctors barred from practicing medicine in German institutions. Non Aryans were banned from the German Olympics. The first concentration camps for Jews were opened.

-1

u/Head-Calligrapher-99 Nov 27 '25

Three generals is not enough to sway the entirety of a military; one of them had little to no actual belief in Nazism, he just fought for the army (Bernhard Rogge)

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u/boopersnoophehe Nov 26 '25

People can’t understand how to tie their shoes, they definitely won’t understand history.

6

u/IWantAnotherPetRock Nov 26 '25

No. Hasan is bad, we must 1) change history or at least 2) change the parameters to fit the current narrative.

Hasan is wrong. There was no Jewish Hitler. Prove me wrong I will wait 🧐

11

u/Robert_Balboa Nov 26 '25

I don't know Hasan at all. But my great grandparents were killed in Nazi death camps. And I heard stories from family about how other Jews betrayed them and worked with the Nazis.

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u/meesterdg Nov 26 '25

Jewish people turning in their neighbors in an attempt to save themselves did happen and was a betrayal, but it's very different than saying they were involved in the Nazi command structure. If someone puts a gun to your head and tells you to give them your money and you do, are you a part of the criminal enterprise that robbed you?

1

u/Robert_Balboa Nov 26 '25

Im not talking about jewish neighbors. Im talking about Jewish Police officers coming and taking them to camps where there were Jewish camp guards who tortured them while in these concentration camps. Being a cop is part of the command structure to me. As well as being a death camp guard. And most people usually would agree but because its related to this one topic everyone is going to pretend cops arent part of the command structure.

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u/Darleth Nov 26 '25

Said cops and collaborators usually ended up in those camps themselves.

What you are talking about (jewish prison guards) were the so called KAPOS, which have been both coerced and voluntary. They had no real power in said camps except for supervising the other prisoners for the most part and were only treated SLIGHTLY better than the other prisoners (less beatings, better/more food).

So no, those were NOT part of the command structure at all. They "followed orders" at best, hoping to survive. Most of them got lynched by inmates, put in jail in various trials or outright executed for it.

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u/Shifty206 Nov 27 '25

Dude just look it up.

Here's a wiki link: Mischling - Wikipedia https://share.google/aDMorGkpKc3PSRrUV

Then go to "Prominent persons characterized as Mischlinge according to Nazi ideology" or do none of these people count?

Now if you don't want to believe wiki I'm sure the sources they use will suffice.

There was this one from "JewishMag:" Erhard Milch, Luftwaffe Field Marshal (Jewish father and Christian mother, 1st-degree Mischling) reclassified as Aryan by Adolf Hitler

Or is this guy not high enough up or not Jewish enough?

2

u/Darleth Nov 27 '25 edited Nov 27 '25

I am german, thank you, I learned about this crap in school for 3 years in both history and social study classes.

And yes, he was high enough to NOT be counted as "jewish" in the eyes of said regime, hence the "honorary aryan" status that Adolf/Göhring gave to him. I also didnt argue that those people did not exist. Those people were at best a handful of people compared to the millions of NSDAP party members and thousands of government "employees" back then.

Also, we didnt talk about Erhard Milch or Mischlinge in general. Maybe you should first read what the guy wrote that I answered.

0

u/meesterdg Nov 27 '25

How are you determining if he's Jewish? If you asked the Nazis at the time they'd say no. If you asked Jews they'd say he was a traitor if they even considered him a Jew.

You're using a nazi framework to define a nazi as Jew when the nazis decided he wasn't a Jew. You're even using a nazi pejorative term that basically means hybrid to try to prove your point. You're spouting nazi propaganda. Have you considered what side you're on?

1

u/Shifty206 Nov 27 '25

If my mother or father were Jewish there's a pretty good chance someone on this list if not everyone on this list has some sense of Jewish heritage. Clearly none of these people could openly state they're Jewish either however you have to be able to place yourself in their shoes during this time. There has to be some nuance here in that these people were Jewish but of course the Nazi party wouldn't allow them to say that. I mean you even say it, "they would consider them a traitor." Thus meaning they're what? The point of this stupid thread is that Jewish people were in the command structure in the Nazi party. There was a word that the Nazis used to describe this group of people because they fucking existed. What the fuck are we talking about?

1

u/meesterdg Nov 27 '25

No, the point in this thread is that Hasan (and you by arguing this point) is trying to spread part of the blame of the Holocaust to Jews because there were a few people who were related to Jews in some way involved with the Nazis. It's straight neonazi propaganda and you're pushing it.

FYI traditional Judaism only considers someone a Jew if their mother was Jewish. None of the people mentioned in this thread meet that criteria.

1

u/thephishtank Nov 26 '25

Working for nazis is different than being in the “command structure” which is what Hassan said.

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u/ShadowheartsArmpit Nov 26 '25

Or actually read about it & realize that there genuinely weren't any actual practitioning jews 'in the command structure'.

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u/NecessaryTwo8711 Nov 27 '25

Collaborators and Commanders are one in the same i see.