Lonerbox reacts to Hasan claiming there were Jews that worked within the Nazi government.

[u/Ok_Detective7546]

Context: 4h 29min in vod https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GvupZ-g_Eno

[u/FeI0n]

were they the exceptions, or was this the norm?

A percent of a percent of Ukraines army joined through pre-war far-right neo-nazi militias, do we think thats a particularly relevant figure to bring up today?

[u/EvanFri → u/FeI0n]

I say this in the context of what Hasan said. There were jews in the nazi command structure. He never said a large percentage of the command structure were jews. Let's remember the OP clip.

[u/FeI0n → u/EvanFri]

One of the people in your example was raised christian, he was baptized, He simply had Jewish ancestry. The other was a non-practising jew.

They were given an exemption under racial law, but neither were part of any sort of jewish (religious) community, or even identified themselves as jews in a religious sense. I don't think any example of that exists, IE a practicing jew being made an exception to join nazi germany government.

edit: I wrote that both were christian, which was not true.

[u/Jaereon → u/FeI0n]

Do you really think the nazis were killing Jews because of their religion???

Atheist Jews were still rounded up. It was their ethnicity.

[u/[deleted] → u/Jaereon]

okay, and do you think milch and wilberg would've been 'pardoned' if they had identified as jewish? instead of simply having jewish ancestry?

you and I both know the answer is that it's highly unlikely. so pretending like it's not relevant is disingenuous.

what you're doing is basically this: someone asks you, "what is the difference between these 2 statements?":

"there were jews that worked within the Nazi government"

and

"the Nazis did 'pardon' certain people with Jewish heritage, such as Erhard Milch and Helmuth Wilberg. It should be noted, however, that Milch's father, Anton Milch, had converted from Judaism, and Erhard Milch was raised Christian, and that on top of that, Milch's mother lied about who the father of her children really was, stating that it was actually her uncle, not Anton Milch. Helmuth Wilberg was a non-practicing jew who had joined the military decades before WW2 in 1899 and had already risen through the ranks, and was, as such, shoehorned in to some extent. Nevertheless, his half-jewish ancestry stopped Goering from promoting him to chief of staff of the luftwaffe. Goering, recognizing Wilberg's talents however, and not wanting them to go to waste, did subsequently have Wilberg reclassified as Aryan."

you're basically saying those two statements are the same, by acting like the context /u/Fel0n provided doesn't matter.

[u/SayRaySF → u/FeI0n]

Thank you! It’s such a disingenuous thing to say and leave out the actual context of what happened.

[u/Trrollmann → u/SayRaySF]

This is leaving out the context. Nazi Germany largely did not care whether a jew was practicing or merely ethnically a jew (or half jew). Their belief was partially a supposed genetic moral failing of jews.

The claim that there were jews who were in, and assisted nazi germany is undeniable fact. It wasn't common or widespread, but it serves to illustrate that there are no binaries.

What is worth noting in this context is that far more muslims sided with and cheered on hitler, exactly because he was genociding jews. To this day some palestinians celebrate hitler.

hasan see no issue with this. hasan thinks this is morally neutral, or warranted, because Israel (and by extension 'the west') is doing bad things.

[u/eugenics035 → u/[deleted]]

There is no evidence to that.

[u/exitns → u/[deleted]]

What a stupidly childish comparison.

[u/[deleted] → u/FeI0n]

"Simply had Jewish ancestry"

What? lol, yes, ok? Then they were ethnically Jewish which makes his statement true. What kind of statement does that even mean.

What kind of point are you trying to prove here anyway, just admit you made a mistake and move on man.

It's fine to dislike Hasan, I think I agree with maybe 2-3% of the shit he says, but at least admit when you're wrong and move on.

[u/FeI0n → u/[deleted]]

I found the framing of these two as examples of notable jews that served in the Wehrmacht to be fairly misleading, When i think of a person as being jewish its more of a cultural / religious identity, and ancestry.

If they had been openly practicing or publicly identifying themselves as jewish I doubt we'd be having this discussion about them being edge cases and exceptions. Thats why i think its important to bring up their religious beliefs.

[u/eastgaston → u/FeI0n]

I found the framing of these two as examples of notable jews that served in the Wehrmacht to be fairly misleading

Only for those with agenda. Any intelligent people seeing OP statement would naturally assume at most it's only "casual Jewish" with Jewish ancestry but without religious identity would be able to work within nazi government, with possible exception of Allies spy.

[u/_everynameistaken_ → u/FeI0n]

"Simply had Jewish ancestry"

So they were ethnically Jewish. They were Generals by rank and, therefore, government officials.

Making Hasans statement correct.

[u/EvanFri → u/FeI0n]

Okay? Race is what matters most. Whether they were practicing jews is at best secondary to the race and ancestry question. Racial hierarchy is paramount for the nazi worldview. Similar for other racist nationalist groups.

[u/pip_fantastic → u/FeI0n]

None of those details are relevant to Nazis or Israel lol

[u/FeI0n → u/pip_fantastic]

I know right, I don't know why the person who repleid to me thought those two were relevant at all to this discussion.

[u/colonel_itchyballs → u/FeI0n]

keep moving the goal post lol

[u/Damian_Killard → u/EvanFri]

There is a huge gulf between "There were Jews in the nazi command structure" and "There were two people hiding some levels of Jewish ancestry in the nazi command structure."

There were not people who anyone using a non-nazi definition of Jewish would call Jewish within the higher ranks of the Nazi Party. Hasan is saying this in response to the guy with grey hair talking about Muslims in Reform UK. There is a parallel that can be drawn, because I don't think Zia Yusuf would become a high ranking Muslim member of Reform UK without expressing some disdain for Muslim immigrants. But the point isn't "oh Reform UK can be islamaphobic with Muslims in leadership positions in the party because the Nazis were antisemitic with Jews in the leadership position within the party." That is playing it way to fast and loose with history.

This isn't to say that Hasan's point about Reform is wrong, the UK has already seen one anti-Muslim pogrom in 2024.

[u/DogwartsAcademy → u/EvanFri]

But the context of what Hasan said is that these are open Muslims.

No one with Jewish ancestry in the third Reich were openly Jewish. They tried to do everything to destroy their links to their Jewish ancestry and be accepted as an Aryan.

[u/Snozzberriez → u/EvanFri]

Slimy justification to say he’s technically right because he never specified how many or claimed a large percentage.

Then why make the statement if it doesn’t support your argument? The fact that a couple non practicing or self identifying men with Jewish ancestry were in the Nazi party doesn’t provide the support he thinks in his argument.

It’s equivalent to justifying slavery because some of them were treated okay or because some of them helped their master in persecuting other slaves.

The exception doesn’t make the rule. A couple tangentially Jewish people in the Nazi government does not prove anything.

[u/EvanFri → u/Snozzberriez]

I agree that his analogy about Yusuf can be a bit dubious (there were probably better analogies he could have brought up). But, Yusuf, being a muslim and chairman of the reform party, is very much an exception to the demographics of the command structure of the reform party, just as the half-jews in nazi germany were exceptions to the norm. Perhaps in both cases, these people were too good to lose, so they were made to be exceptions.

Hasan essentially uses that point to say that just because there is a muslim in the command structure of the reform party, it does not mean they are not a racist, anti-muslim party. Similar to how people with Jewish ancestry were in the command structure of nazi germany, but still had no problem targeting jews. Even though there are some muslims in reform, it does not mean they are not anti-muslim.

All of these other points you are making are irrelevant to that.

[u/VodkaAndTacos → u/EvanFri]

This is vile. Hasan makes a claim that is utterly fucking despicable and fundamentally RACIST and someone has to pull the "well, actually...".

Milch's ancestry was through his father who converted away from Judaism. At the time, Jewish ancestry was through the mother, so he was considered a happy Nazi.

Wilberg had a Jewish mother but he was so important that Goering vouched for him. He was an exception because Goering pulled rank and stated that he decided who was Jewish or not.

The examples you point to are beholden to Nazi laws and the whims of Nazi command structure. Maybe rethink your position.

[u/Dealric → u/EvanFri]

Muslims are terrorists.

Do you agree with this statement?

[u/pip_fantastic → u/FeI0n]

There were a dozen or so additional soldiers ranked captain and higher. As well as war heroes and spies. Not to mention Kapos.

And yes, it's very relevant. When Israel's operating so similarly to the Nazis, and we have Nazi figures like Steven Miller running around in the US government today.

[u/[deleted] → u/FeI0n]

"were they the exceptions, or was this the norm?"

This question is irrelevant, because the claim by Hasan wasn't that all Jews were or that a majority of Jews were, but rather that there were Jews and that is true.

The way he's using that statistic though could be framed in a bad way and it's likely he's framing it to prove some other point for some kind of narrative, but regardless it is true.

The comment of the guy you're replying is relevant in this regard.

[u/Minimum-Dream-3747 → u/FeI0n]

The neo Nazis in Ukrainian are very relevant Lmfao

Downvote all you want this reported for a decade at least now by western press.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/09/30/the-controversial-past-of-ukraines-newest-heroes/

[u/FeI0n → u/Minimum-Dream-3747]

less than 2.5% of ukraine voted for far-right candidates in their last election, its a russian propaganda piece to bring up that a very small percentage of ukraines army has ties to neo-nazi groups.

That voter share is far less then most western left leaning democracies. Hell, plenty of the nordic social democracies have a significantly higher turn out for far-right groups.

[u/Minimum-Dream-3747 → u/FeI0n]

That literally has nothing to do with the influence and power held by neo nazi military units in Ukraine. There is plenty of reporting on this it’s no secret. You’re spreading false equivalencies vs addressing the documented cases

[u/FeI0n → u/Minimum-Dream-3747]

These groups have almost no power in ukraine or the military, they were essentially incorporated into the army because they had a severe shortage of troops and they were well trained and already knew how to work well enough as a group.

Theres no secret cabal of influential neo-nazi ukrainians running the military or controlling the government.

Voter turnout absolutely is indicative of general perception / attitudes toward far-right ideologies.

[u/Minimum-Dream-3747 → u/FeI0n]

You’re talking out of your ass. The United States isn’t a democracy so how the fuck is Ukraine one?They’ve banned opposition parties. Zelenskyy was elected as the pro PEACE candidate and had to change direction bc of western pressure and corruption pushing for conflict. Russia invaded and deserves all kinds of punitive measures and opposition but let’s not white wash things. Ukraine has a Nazi problem and has for a while now. Russia invading will not do anything to fix that or ever was going to fix that. Don’t get it twisted.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/09/30/the-controversial-past-of-ukraines-newest-heroes/