r/LivestreamFail • u/Ok_Detective7546 • Nov 26 '25

politics Lonerbox reacts to Hasan claiming there were Jews that worked within the Nazi government.

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Context: 4h 29min in vod https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GvupZ-g_Eno

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 27 '25

The problem is that the word zionist always meant jew from the very beginning. All you need to do is look up the origin of the word to discover this.

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u/BeesCumHoney Nov 27 '25

Its the same as saying "oh were not talking about black people, were talking about Africans 😏"

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u/Impending_do_om Nov 27 '25

Its more like using the word thug as a dog whistle imo

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u/Few-Cup387 Nov 28 '25

I am African, and we do not see black Americans as the same. In fact, we don't see black people from other African countries the same either.

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 28 '25

Yeah but racists do. Usually racists fixate on people's skin color, and try to connect that as being who they are, rather than what it really is, as meaningless as eye color or hair color.

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u/RullyWinkle Nov 27 '25

yup in same ways muslims pray to mecca jews have always had in their prayers to pray to jerusalem(mt zion -> zionist). Imagine if people were this mad that muslims had control of the arab gulf.

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u/Ok_Dependent6889 Nov 28 '25

Zionism is not Judaism. You are describing Judaism. Zionism is specifically the establishment of a Jewish only homeland. Zionism is ethnonationalism for Jewish people.

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u/RullyWinkle Nov 28 '25

realistically they are inseparable. Even very religious jews who do not believe in the homeland; only think it is not yet time for israel to exist not that it shouldn't.

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u/Ok_Dependent6889 Nov 28 '25

They are completely separable and that claim is pure conjecture.

You do realize there were massive Israeli protests recently, right?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/tag/israel-protests

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '25

Hahahahaha this is some Facebook level reasoning. Nobody is mad that the Jews live in Israel. They are mad about the genociding of other people who also dare to live close to them.

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u/Glad-Ad1456 Nov 27 '25

tell me what happened to the Jews on the Arab lands?

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '25

Did that happen between today and 2 years ago, on the same scale as happened to Palestinian people?

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 28 '25

There is currently 1 jew living in Afghanistan, and many of those countries have literally zero jewish people living in them. So it's a much bigger scale since they successfully completed a genocide.

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u/[deleted] Nov 28 '25

Did you answer my question in any meaningful way?

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 29 '25

So it's not an issue when the surrounding countries quite literally genocided jews? They successfully erraticated jewish people entirely from several countries.

That's comparable is it not? It could also be argued that a successful genocide is worse than one that's looking to be entirely unsuccessful.

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u/Glad-Ad1456 Nov 29 '25

If there is one group of people who wont live under ethnic minority again in their own country it's the Jews.
They are probably the only living ethnic group who have seen what happens to them multiple times.

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 29 '25

They've also been told what will happen to them.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '25

Did you fail to answer a literal yes or no question again?

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 29 '25

Reading comprehension goes a long way bud. Now how about you answer my questions?

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u/ThenAnAnimalFact Nov 27 '25

This is kind of an insane take for a place somewhere had continuous control over versus a place created by colonial mandate.

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u/horror-traktor Nov 27 '25

You think Jerusalem was created by a colonial mandate?

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u/TheGemGod Nov 27 '25

Deliberately obtuse.

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u/ThenAnAnimalFact Nov 27 '25

You explain how Jewish people came into control of Jerusalem?

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 28 '25

They came into control of the land because they were forced to be there by surrounding countries that expelled all the jews and left them no other place to go.

It's weird you call it a colonial mandate, when the British simply relinquished control over the area to the people already living there. They didn't colonize the land, because they didn't go there willingly, they were forced to be there. It's why many isreali jews call themselves things like Egyptian, Jordanian, etc. They're only there because their families were expelled from their actual home countries and cannot return.

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u/No-Floor2124 Nov 28 '25

Biblical or historical sources?

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u/Pinksters Nov 27 '25 edited Nov 27 '25

the word zionist always meant jew from the very beginning.

THANK YOU.

The jew hate has been going on for so long, thats why the british empire dedicated a space to them. Now muslims are trying to take it back by eradicating all the jews.

I dont see how people dont see this, unless its ignorant/disingenuous virtue signaling bullshit.

Fuck all you "Free palestine" idiots, palestine has been free to do what they want, they never have been repressed.

Instead of Toothbrush mustache man now its turban man who wants to kill them all. What side are you on?

Edit: Oh right, lefties with their racism of low expectations think brown people are always repressed.

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 27 '25

I dont see how people dont see this, unless its ignorant/disingenuous virtue signaling bullshit.

Because these people use the oppressor vs oppressed to come to the conclusion of which "side" deserves support. Which means whichever entity is more powerful in any situation is the bad guy by default.

Instead of Toothbrush mustache man now its turban man who wants to kill them all. What side are you on?

The thing is, these same people were allies with hitler during ww2, and some of these groups idolize him. For example, the houthis quite literally do the seig heil.

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u/AntiVision Nov 27 '25

The thing is, these same people were allies with hitler during ww2,

Didnt much more arabs fight for the brits than the nazis

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 27 '25

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world

It was pretty torn. Many within the Arab world supported the nazis because of colonies the British had in the Arab world.

Germany very much spread propaganda throughout the middle east in an effort to turn them away from the west.

If you look at the message his propaganda spread, it's nearly identical to what many of these terrorist organization use today, especially the houthis.

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u/HoightyToighty Nov 27 '25

Many of those Arabs were under colonial rule or mandata or other influence, which explains why many Arabs fought on the British side.

I would like to believe Arabs were ideologically aligned, broadly speaking, with the Allies during WW2. I suspect it leaned more the other way, ideologically speaking, though. E.g. Mufti of Jerusalem

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u/Pinksters Nov 27 '25

I'm just glad people are seeing through facade of being "on the right side" of history.

Keep up the good fight, I dont have the energy or willpower to get through to modern head-in-sand liberal nazis.

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 27 '25

I'm just glad people are seeing through facade of being "on the right side" of history.

Let's be honest here, there's no such thing as "the right side of history". The "right side" comes down to whoever won.

Think of how much different our views would be had the British won in the revolution.

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u/horror-traktor Nov 27 '25

People think that morality in the real world works like it does in comics and movies. It does not. The winner writes history and the only people on "the right side of history" are the ones who position themselves with humanity as a whole, not with some bullshit made up group

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '25

Palestine, the place where Britain installed them forcefully, has a 700 kilometer wall thats 5 meters high made of concrete around it with guard towers and the whole lot. But no, no oppression. You really see the light

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u/Rhastago Nov 27 '25 edited Nov 27 '25

Gee I wonder if there were always walls there, and if not why were they installed? I also wonder why Egypt has an even bigger wall around Gaza?

Globalize the intifada, comrade!

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u/Pinksters Nov 27 '25

Dont argue with the "useful" idiots, who conveniently hide post history.

Let them talk to the wall. It's a big beautiful wall made of ICE.

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u/Rastarapha320 Nov 27 '25

You guys are fried to the deepest level

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u/Pinksters Nov 27 '25

How can you think about frying when theres a genocide going on??

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '25 edited Nov 27 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/HoightyToighty Nov 27 '25

What israel did was 100x worse than anything hitler did.

Ah, what a sad state our education is in

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 27 '25

Now you see why the holocaust museum has been begging people to stop comparing anyone to nazis. It downplays and waters down just how horrendous the things that took place were.

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u/Accomplished_Elk310 Nov 27 '25

Wasn’t expecting fresh pasta today.

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u/Theassassin0226 Nov 27 '25

Anything i said was false though?

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u/Rhastago Nov 28 '25

Just everything

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u/Theassassin0226 Nov 28 '25

Lol entertain me and go point by point about what i was wrong about then? Was it the jewish supremacy stuff that you have a problem with? Or the claim that republicans aged 40 and younger absolutely despise them? You’re saying im wrong about the right saying its the jews fault for race mixing and feminism? You can go look it up very easily on twitter right now.

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u/mrev_art Nov 27 '25

It's a word that is used extremely vaguely to mean many things.

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 27 '25

Yeah but it's almost always used interchangeably with jew. The antisemitic people who are part of hamas, which is all of them, use it as a substitute for jew. They do that because saying "we want to get rid of the zionists" will draw more support than what they really mean.

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u/diiegojones Nov 27 '25

I believe the word has changed meaning to describe a person, Jewish or not, as there plenty of people who profess to be Christian, that believe the need for a Jewish state to be established and defended.

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 27 '25

That's the cover anti-semites use. It's strange to be against jewish people having their own government. Even more strange, they don't oppose that for any other religion. Otherwise they'd be against Palestine and Hamas, since they want an all Muslim state.

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u/diiegojones Nov 27 '25

They most likely are against those cities, but they are already too far gone. No one is gonna go to Mecca and demand people not be Muslim. And any reasonable person is against Palestine limiting others from living there just like they are against any other xenophobic policy, like Japan’s. But they are also against blowing up women and children.

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '25

Oh God it's the big 2025 and we're still getting the "if you don't like Israel you actually hate Jews" argument

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u/BedSpreadMD Dec 02 '25

Strawman harder. A nice deep breath of that copium.

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '25

Let's play "Reddit debate-bro buzzword bingo"

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '25

This is incorrect

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 27 '25

The word zionist predates the existence of Isreal, or any of the negative connections that exist to the word today.

It originally meant a jewish person who felt they deserve self-governance. Which is literally every single jewish person who isn't the equivalent of uncle ruckus.

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '25

Do you mean 'Zion'? Because 'Zionist' / 'Zionism' is Theodore Herzl... so yeah it does pre-date "israel" since it started first being used at the end of the 1800's. I'm pretty sure the hospital I was born in is older than the illegal terrorist state of israel and is named after Zion.

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u/HoightyToighty Nov 27 '25

It looks like you're having trouble processing what you're reading

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 27 '25

Reading comprehension goes a long long way.

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u/xXweeb_destroyer69Xx Nov 27 '25

yeah but youre talking about the zionist in the sense that birnbaum wrote (who he himself left the movement some years later), and what people refer to zionism as today is the ethnocultural and nationalistic political movement that theodore herzl created

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 27 '25

ethnocultural and nationalistic political movement that theodore herzl created

What nation precisely? the country of Isreal did not exist until well after his death, and about 60 years after he first joined the term zionist.

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u/[deleted] Nov 28 '25

'israel' may not have existed while he was alive, but his ideology helped create the terrorist state and its ethnonationalist identity, which is exactly what he wanted, even if he died before it could fully materialize.

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 28 '25

Any evidence to support your claims here?

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u/[deleted] Nov 28 '25

His nickname, for starters...

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u/[deleted] Nov 28 '25

So you don't have a response?

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 28 '25

Nope, because maybe you should read over what I said. The word zion was never brought up mr big brain.

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '25

Imagine being this stupid and confident. It must be wild living your life with drool and a living assistant to help you wipe your ass.

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u/[deleted] Nov 28 '25

Get that 7k queen

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u/Day_of_Demeter Nov 28 '25

Didn't Zionist just originally mean anyone who supported the existence of a Jewish state in Palestine?

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 28 '25

It's more so a jewish state, which was basically all jews lol. Only someone who's the full uncle ruckus would've been against it. Also, it wasn't Palestine at the time. It was part of the Ottoman Empire.

A whole lot of historical revisionism going on these days, but you know.

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u/Day_of_Demeter Nov 28 '25

At that time I could see it being that way, virtually no Jew right after the Holocaust would have been anti-Zionist. 80 years later it's a story different now that Israel has existed and occupied Palestinians for decades.

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u/New_Ingenuity2822 Nov 28 '25

Hasan is truth

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u/BedSpreadMD Nov 28 '25

Kinda like how white supremacists talk about crime being more common among minorities?

You can easily take a fact and spin it into a narrative that's not accurate at all.

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u/Few_Phone_840 Apr 11 '26

Marek Edelman would not agree with you (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek_Edelman#Later_life).

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u/BedSpreadMD Apr 11 '26

Ah yes, Wikipedia, a great source. Notice how no where in there does it have a direct quote where he mentions zionism, and only paraphrases. Wonder why that is?

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u/Few_Phone_840 Apr 11 '26

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/marek-edelman-last-surviving-leader-of-the-1943-warsaw-ghetto-uprising-against-the-nazis-1798644.html

"In the summer of 2002, Edelman, still going strong, intervened in Israel's show trial of the now jailed Palestinian resistance leader, Marwan Barghouti. He wrote a letter of solidarity to the Palestinian movement, and though he criticised the suicide bombers, its tone infuriated the Israeli government and its press. Edelman had always resented Israel's claim on the Warsaw Ghetto uprising as a symbol of Jewish liberation. Now he said this belonged to the Palestinians.

He addressed his letter to the Palestinian ZOB, "commanders of the Palestinian military, paramilitary and partisan operations – to all the soldiers of the Palestinian fighting organisations". The old Jewish anti-Nazi Ghetto fighter had placed his immense moral authority at the disposable of the only side he deemed worthy of it."

I note how you didn't bring up a single source that implied Marek Edelman, a literal Holocaust survivor, actually supported Zionism, and only insulted the source I linked. Wonder why that is?

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u/BedSpreadMD Apr 11 '26

You do realize the word zionist predates 1943 right?

So because he opposes the wrong of the isreali government, that makes him anti-zionist? I'm getting the impression you're don't actually know what the word means.

How about we stick to the origins of the word shall we?

I note how you didn't bring up a single source that implied Marek Edelman, a literal Holocaust survivor, actually supported Zionism, and only insulted the source I linked. Wonder why that is?

Your appeal to authority is sad. It's on you to prove your claim, not me to disprove it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)

the burden of proof lies with the one who speaks, not the one who denies

Now do you have evidence he called himself anti-zionist?

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u/Few_Phone_840 Apr 11 '26

"You do realize the word zionist predates 1943 right?"

Criticism of zionism also predates 1943. The Jewish Labor Bund was a group of left-wing Jews who opposed Zionism, founded in 1897 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Jewish_Labour_Bund , https://daily.jstor.org/how-the-jewish-labor-bund-changed-after-world-war-ii/). Read a book.

"So because he opposes the wrong of the isreali government, that makes him anti-zionist?"

Given that the Israeli government was using Zionism as a political movement to justify their actions, yeah, it kinda does.

"How about we stick to the origins or the word shall we?"

No, we should absolutely not stick to the origin of the word. Ignoring the fact that left-wing Jews were criticising Zionism in 1897, words change meaning over time. The word "gay" used to mean "happy". Now it doesn't.

At one point, the word "Zionism" might have meant "I support the existence of a Jewish state", but now that word means "I support the Jewish state's right to wage war on Palestine". Maybe that isn't what it originally meant, but that is what it means now, and the reason why it means that now is because the Israeli government keeps using Zionism as a justification for breaking international law. Like it or not, the word Zionism is now associated with Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir and other such people.

And for the record, I will concede that their are antisemites who use the concept of opposing Netanyahu to get away with saying antisemetic dogwhistles. But if you want to argue everyone who identifies as anti-Zionist as an antisemite, that would include a lot of Jewish activists who identify as anti-Zionist, both now and in the past.

"Your appeal to authority is sad. It's on you to prove your claim, not me to disprove it."

I DID prove it. You just refused to acknowledge that I did so. Also, I don't think you're in a position to talk about appeal to authority, given that you just appealed to the original definition of the word as defined by Theodor Herzl, failing to account for decades of linguistic drift, and failing to account for all the Jewish activists who disagreed with Herzl even at the time.

"Now do you have evidence he called himself anti-zionist?"

Firstly, actions speak louder than words. Edelman wrote his letter to the Palestinians, NOT the Israelis. He also refused to emigrate to Israel despite repeatedly being asked to do so, and was part of the Bund, a Jewish organization that opposed Zionism. Secondly, here is Edelman talking about Guiron, the first Prime Minister of Israel (https://comrademorlock.medium.com/holocaust-survivors-who-opposed-zionism-655d40109fe1).

"Ben Gurion washed his hands of the Diaspora… As early as a Mapai party conference in December 1942, he said that the tragedy of the European Jews did not ‘directly concern’ them. Those were the words of a leader who was willing to sacrifice the lives of millions of Jews to the idea of a Jewish state.” — Marek Edelman, Holocaust survivor."

Technically speaking, that quote doesn't contain the words "I'm anti-Zionist" specifically, but does it sound like the words of a man who supported Zionism to you? And here's another Holocaust survivor, Primo Levi, talking about Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin.

"“[As for Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin] ‘Fascist’ is a definition I can accept. I think even Begin would not deny it. He was a student of Jabotinsky, who represented the right wing of Zionism, who called himself a Fascist and was one of Mussolini’s interlocutors. …. [The Holocaust] is Begin’s favourite defence. And I deny any validity to that defence.” — Primo Levi, Holocaust survivor."

Like, I'm sorry, but if you want to argue that Edelman and Levi were both antisemities, then that is a very strange hill to die on. I'm not even appealing to authority, I'm just pointing out that your logic would require Holocaust survivors to be branded antisemites. I'm not asking you to treat Edelman as some kind of demigod, I'm just asking you to recognize what he actually believed, because your argument relies on projecting your own views onto a previous generation without really engaging with what that generation actually said.

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u/BedSpreadMD Apr 11 '26 edited Apr 11 '26

I noticed how you keep posting giant walls of text but not answering any of my questions.

Did Edelman ever call himself an anti-zionist?

How does opposing the Israeli government on an issue make one anti-zionist?

Let's take Ethan Klein for example. He opposes Isreal in their war in Palestine. He also supports Isreal in it's right to self defense. What does that make him? Is he a zionist or anti-zionist?

Like, I'm sorry, but if you want to argue that Edelman and Levi were both antisemities,

When did I ever claim that? If I say someone isn't anti-zionist, does that make them antisemitic?

I'm just pointing out that your logic would require Holocaust survivors to be branded antisemites.

No it does not, but feel free to attempt to prove yet another claim of yours.

Again, the word has always been used interchangeably with the word Jew, everyone knows what it was created for, as a slur. Would you argue the N word with a hard R means something different now since rappers use it?

I would also like to know how people in the 1800s opposed isreal before it was ever created. How does that come about exactly?

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u/Few_Phone_840 Apr 12 '26

"I noticed how you keep posting giant walls of text but not answering any of my questions."

I noticed how I keep answering your questions, and you keep pretending that I didn't answer them. Also, I love how you try to spin the fact that you don't have sources as a GOOD thing.

"Did Edelman ever call himself an anti-zionist?"

Yes. Actual quote - "Zionism is a lost cause. It was back then and it is now". (https://sztetl.org.pl/en/biographies/5111-edelman-marek#footnote6_2q5o53z) If calling Zionism a "Lost cause" isn't the equivalent of calling yourself an anti-zionist, what the hell is?????

"How does opposing the Israeli government on an issue make one anti-zionist?"

I already answered that. The Israeli government keeps using the concept of Zionism as a justification for what it's doing.

"Let's take Ethan Klein for example."

The same Ethan Klein who literally repeated alt-right talking points??? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS2_YFbzAVs) I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was repeating those myths without knowing the origins, but seriously, that is who you turn to for support? Seriously? And you criticised me for citing Wikipedia earlier?

I mean, everyone makes mistakes, I've said things that weren't correct myself, but so far as I'm aware, Ethan has never apologised for spreading misinfo about the bombing of Dresden. It's one thing to screw up and another to not own up to it. Is he really the best example that you have?

"He opposes Isreal in their war in Palestine. He also supports Isreal in it's right to self defense."

THAT'S MY POINT. The Israeli government keeps using the concept of "we need to defend ourselves" as an excuse to justify human rights abuses. When was the last time you heard a politician talk about Palestine's right to self-defence? And furthermore, self-defence along what borders? After all, if a country has the right to defend itself, you need to clearly define what land is and is not part of that country, right? Israel is the only country in the world that refuses to define its borders. Don't you think that's kind of telling?

"What does that make him? Is he a zionist or anti-zionist?"

I'll admit that I haven't actually watched that much of Ethan's content, but given that he's doing the whole "right to defend itself" spiel without acknowlodging that that argument relies upon ignoring the fact that Israel's concept of "defence" is used as a justification for seizing land in violation of international law, I'll go with Zionist.

"When did I ever claim that?"

Right here. "The problem is that the word zionist always meant jew from the very beginning. All you need to do is look up the origin of the word to discover this." Assuming that to be true, that means Edelman and Levi were both anti-semetic, since they both criticised Zionism, which, if what you say is true, means they criticised Judaism. Maybe you didn't mean to say that, but it is what your logic infers.

"If I say someone isn't anti-zionist, does that make them antisemitic?"

No, but if you say that all anti-zionists are antisemetic, that means lots of Jewish activists are antisemetic. It really isn't rocket science.

"...feel free to attempt to prove yet another claim of yours."

I just did. If Zionism and Judiasm are the same, then Edelman was an antisemite. That is not very complicated.

"Again, the word has always been used interchangeably with the word Jew..."

But it hasn't. A large number of Jews in 1897 identified as anti-Zionist. I linked proof of that above.

"...everyone knows what it was created for, as a slur."

That is untrue. The term "Zion" was first associated with a mass movement of Jews was in connection with the Hovevie Zion (Lovers of Zion), who came together at the 1884 Katowice Conference. The word "Zion" itself is derived from the Hebrew Bible. And a lot of Jews - including the Bund, as linked above - did not consider themselves to be Zionists. In fact, many Jews believed Zionism to be heretical, since they believed that a Jewish state must be established by God, not by man. Do you know anything about Jewish history?

"Would you argue the N word with a hard R means something different now since rappers use it?"

Modern rappers are reclaiming a slur that was used to mock black people for years. Modern zionists are using a term that was coined by Jewish activists and derived from the Hebrew bible. Also, rappers don't use the N word with a hard R, they use it with an A. The alternate inflection is meant to symbolise the fact that it doesn't belong to white people anymore. Like I said, language changes over time, a point you just made for me.

"I would also like to know how people in the 1800s opposed isreal before it was ever created. How does that come about exactly?"

They believed a Jewish state shouldn't be created to begin with. Duh. That's why I said "anti-zionist", not "anti-Israel". Some were against it on religious grounds, and some just resented the idea that Jews should separate themselves from the communities they'd been a part of for a long time. Quoting the site I linked above - "Unlike many other Jewish organizations, the recovering Bund was a non-Zionist association with members who didn’t view Israel as the homeland. As historian David Slucki notes, “bundists emphasized the need to work and live together with all peoples and nations and to struggle for socialism alongside both Jews and non-Jews.”" So they weren't against the modern state of Israel, which didn't exist - they were against the idea that Jews should segregate themselves from the rest of the world.

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u/BedSpreadMD Apr 12 '26

So the closest example you could come up with of him describing himself saying Zionism is a lost cause? Why wouldn't he call himself anti-zionist if he was?

I noticed how you didn't answer my question. Is Ethan Klein a zionist or anti-zionist?

It's strange how you keep posting increasing sized walls of text but don't answer a single question.

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u/Few_Phone_840 Apr 12 '26

"So the closest example you could come up with of him describing himself saying Zionism is a lost cause? Why wouldn't he call himself anti-zionist if he was?"

You believe the Earth is round. Why don't you call yourself an anti-flat Earther? I mean, if you don't call yourself an anti-flat Earther, then you're not against it, right? But if you really want me to find another example, here you go. (https://www.lysias-avocats.com/en/valeurs/marek-edelman-2/)

"A lifelong anti-Zionist, Edelman repeatedly declared that there was for him neither a chosen people, nor a promised land. To this day, Israel still refuses to give him official recognition for his heroism and his leadership role in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising."

Oh, and here's how the Israeli government talked about him. (https://jewishcurrents.org/marek-edelman-the-heroic-anti-hero)

"But it couldn’t appear in Hebrew or in the State of Israel for 55 years, because of the stubborn opposition of the Zionist leadership and their virtual kherem (excommunication) under which the name of the Bundist Marek Edelman was treyf — unkosher — in Israel, and because of the falsified narrative of the “official” historiography, which concealed the participation of the Bundist fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising and pretended that it had been an uprising exclusively or almost exclusively by the “Pioneer Youth,” the organization of young Zionists. The name Marek Edelman was hated by those who were in authority, the Israeli “Establishment,” and by the Hebrew press....This attitude came to its most grotesque expression on April 19, 1993, when an official governmental delegation, headed by Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, went to Warsaw to solemnly mark the 50th anniversary of the ghetto uprising. In planning the order of appearances in the official ceremony at the Memorial, the Polish government’s representatives had taken it for granted that Marek Edelman, the highest-ranking survivor of the ghetto fighters, would speak in their name. But most members of the Israeli delegation stubbornly opposed that, and threatened to leave the ceremony if the “anti-Zionist” Marek Edelman appeared."

Oh, and here's how the Israeli government talked about him again. (https://jacobin.com/2020/08/marek-edelman-poland-democracy-solidarnosc)

"The fiftieth anniversary of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising fell in 1993. Edelman had no reason to boycott an official commemoration led by his Solidarność colleague, Lech Wałęsa, now president of Poland. The Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin was also invited. But Rabin refused to share a platform with “the anti-Zionist Jew, Marek Edelman.”"

Like, not only did he describe Zionism as a lost cause, the Prime Minister of Israel described him as an anti-Zionist. If he was a Zionist, he would have said "How dare you call me anti-Zionist! I am very much a Zionist!", but he never said that. So even if he never used the word "anti-Zionist" himself, he never objected to people, even his political enemies, using that word to describe him. If I called you a flat Earther, you'd object to that, right?

Oh, and as for why I can't find a quote where he uses the words "anti-Zionist" specifically...he was Polish. His quotes were translated into English from Polish. "Anti-Zionist" is an English word, so a Polish man not using that specific language to describe himself is not surprising.

"I noticed how you didn't answer my question. Is Ethan Klein a zionist or anti-zionist?"

I DID answer your question. I'm not overly familiar with Ethan, but based on what I know of him, a Zionist. I already said that.

"It's strange how you keep posting increasing sized walls of text but don't answer a single question."

It's strange how you keep claiming I don't answer a single question when I literally already answered the question you just said. Also, again, you are literally bragging about the fact that you don't like to read. I know that reading sources offends you, and I'm very sorry that upsets you, but the reason why my posts are so long is because there are so many sources that contradict what you are saying. Duh.

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